Should Live Call It Quits?, Is it time? Options

[GvB]

Sherocker: lingual it's easy indeed, but....
Try to listen to it with your heart and soul and try to feel and live that way....
Will it still be too easy for you?

And (to almost everybody): screaming out (REAL) anger more intense then singing in a warm and tender (and also REAL) way about love, how is that?

Diane: I have listened to BoP again, because I thought already that I had not discovered everything.
But then I listened to "Sanctity of dreams".
It's in "Paint a moustache on the Mona Lisa, drive a Harley through the heart of danger".
I always thought that it was: do something you don't dare and dare to live on the edge.
But I discovered something new, or something I was forgotten.
It is: dare to differ from other people, dare to be strange.

About the lyrics: I don't agree with you in that the Lyrics did not matter in their older albums.
They are just different.
In "Mental Jewelry", "Throwing Copper" and "Secret Samadhi" the lyrics were about what is wrong in this world and what people did wrong to Ed and later on also about Ed's own mistakes (except from Lightning Crashes which is about the magic of life and dead and I alone which is on loving yourself, I thought).

In "The Distance To Here" Ed finds out what should happen to improve himself as a person and that it is possible to improve the world a very little if you are prepared to improve yourself (become more loving, for example).
This album is one of my favorites although it had to grow on me because it was the first whole Live album I listened to and it was at that time quiet difficult to take in the spiritual way.
Later on I bought and started to listen to the other albums.

Then it goes wrong between most people and Ed (and then I just started to really love it!).
Live comes op with "V".
Ed begins to explain what he has learned and tries to motivate other people to become more loving to the world and each other and less cynical.
He does that in easy sounding language in the hope that the whole world will understand.
But too bad for him, most people seem to like it better if you keep on to explain what is wrong and that it hurts and that the end of the world is near.
The music has become softer, which fits better with the new message.
Meanwhile fans started to complain.

Then BoP and the worst nightmare of the older kind of Live fans came true: Eddie becomes a daddy!
And even "worse", he starts to sing about it!
But what is more beautiful then a parent who loves his child?
I don't know what it's like to be a mother, but I guess it's hard but beautiful!
Since almost two years I'm an aunt of a beatiful cousin and I love him and for him (and all other children and all other people) I will try to keep on doing my little things to help to improve the world a little.
And he sings about the love for his wife (what's wrong with these things).
And Ed keeps singing to motivate people to help him to improve the world.
And that brings him new fans, but the 'old' ones hate it.

But Ed doesn't give it up and I guess that it's okay to the other Live members (Live comes up with Songs From Black Mountain).
And he keeps telling about love and hope and tell's his children that "Love shines" (I hope that he doesn't mind that other people try to give that message to other children too and even to teenagers and adults too).
But (fortunately) he still worries about the world and comes up with "Home".
He sings the verses from the perspective of the soldier and in the chorus he is Ed again and asks from out his heart "when they comin' home?"
He doesn't sing that only as a worried man but as a father too.
And he gives (in my opinion) an fantastic advice in "Wings": the advice to turn all your bagage (the weight that lays on your shoulders = pain and other difficulties) into something positive (could be the "Wings" that carry you home= the tools that help you to feel better inside yourself).
A lot of fans seem to get and like that one.
But sadly a lot of fans reject the rest because of a lack of raw vocals and rough guitars....

(Maybe a funny thought: try to imagine Ed screaming to his daughters that love shines, together with the sound of loud electric guitars.....I guess his daughters become terrified and would flee into a closet or under a table and never dare to get out of the closet or get away from under the table again!)

That's what I think about it all.


GvB.

[mrmcpheezy]

This is what I'm talking about!

You have called people who like the current music (for example "SFBM" and "V") shallow listeners.
And that is offensive to me.

"V" is in my opinion my number 2 and "SFBM" number 3 ("TDTH" is my number one).

I like these albums most because I feel supported by them, because they are sounding optimistic or have at least an optimistic something in it (even "Overcome"), as well musically as lyricly!

Secret Samadhi (the album a lot of people like here best, which I respect) can't give me the support and the optimistic feeling that I'm looking for when I listen to music.

Because "Secret Samadhi" is in my opinion full of things like fear, sadness, emptiness and a doom atmosphere (as well in the music as in the lyrics) which gives me the depressing feeling that the end of the world is near.
I don't want to feel that way because I've been there before and I've been through other painfull things which I have already told in the off-topic zone and I tell you that it had a quiet unhealthy effect on me (thank God I came through it).

"TDTH" tells me that there is more than darkness and that you can find the light and that it is possible to be a person who is loving and positive and that that is better than sinking away in the darkness.

"V" is an album that gives this message to me: get the fuck out of the darkness and take action and please try to understand that the most important thing is love and stop believing that all the people who show up on tv and tell you to be afraid want the best for you!
Get rid of your fear and make a positive change!
Okay the lyrics are easier to understand than on the albums before and maybe the music sounds easier too (although it has a lot of influences from other kinds of music and that is well done in my opinion), but I have heard Ed telling in an interview (a long time ago) that he wants as much people as possible to understand the message of "V".

"SFBM" is to me an album that tells, okay, there is still a lot wrong in the world (listen to "Home"), but there is love (for example Ed's love for his daughters in "Love shines").
And "Wings" is a song that can help you to pull something positive out of a negative thing in your life.
And I have a question to everybody: who doesn't want a love that eases your pain?

Maybe you are gonna ask: where is the anger and agression in the music and in Ed's voice?
Well, I guess that anger does not fit with the message of love Ed wants to tell us now!

This is what I think of it and if you think now that I'm shallow than I have a question for you: why do you like the lack of hope that speaks from "Everybody is anxious. For the coming of the crises. The collapse of the justice" (Century), and don't appreciate the hope in "My faith in love is like blood, I spill it freely for some" (Forever may not be long enough) or in "The weight that lays on you shoulders could be the wings that carry you home" (Wings).
Why does it seems like that desperation is deeper than hope to you?

GvB.

Why am I not surprised that you didn't bother to even attempt to reply to any of my points?

All you do here is explain why you like each album.

Congratulations. You just, again, proved my point. Had these things not been present in these albums, you would not have liked them as much. I'd like to see you try to disagree with me now. You can't. Had these themes not been present in these albums, you'd feel differently about them. While you don't touch one any other issues of composition (probably because you're incapable of doing so), subject matter and tone are definitely factors of composition, and it appears as those certain tones and subject matters appeal to you more than others. So again: try to argue with me that you like albums at random, and that nothing about them has any impace on whether or not you'll like them

You seriously just agreed, whole heartedly, with my main point.

Good fucking job.


And lastly, in response to how offended you were by what I said:

deal with it.

You're listening to shallow, uncreative, uninteresting, uninspired, formulaic, bland, repetative music. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily. It's just a fact. Accept it. I listen to plenty of poorly written music, and I admit it openly: why can't you do the same?

This post has been edited by mrmcpheezy: Oct 16 2006, 2:47 pm

[mrmcpheezy]

Also:

If you'd like to somehow argue that live's recent music is creative, or unique, or innovative, or unrepetative, then go ahead and try to do so. I doubt you can.

[Hoodstock]

That's funny, I posted this exact same thing a few weeks ago. Thanks for keeping up with the boards!!!

[Hoodstock]

A break would be good. They could study what it takes to make songs that make the radio. That would mean studying what it takes to make good songs.

[GvB]

Mrmcpheezy, Hoodstock, Sherocker and everybody else,

I'm gonna use Mrmcpheezy's pizza-theory from the other day (elsewhere in this thread).

I care about it that there are people here who just like pizza's (metaphore for albums) if it contains enough chili peppers and unions for them and has a pizzabottom that's hard to bite in (for example).
I have eaten something like this kind of pizza's before (I used to listen to that kind of songs you currently like, not by Live, but some grunge-things like Nirvana. But Secret Samadhi has now the same effect on me if I listen to it carefully). I ate them until they started to hurt my stomach (metaphore for soul) so bad that it reminded me of all the times that there where happening things to me that hurt my stomach (my soul), I found out how come and that made that I'm done with this kind of pizza's.
But I'm happy that Ed had the strength to make them and tried that kind of pizza's first although it has obviously hurt his stomach too, keep in mind that he did that as well for himself as for us.

But ones I have experienced this all, I wanted just one thing: get rid of this fucking pain (Ed could not warn me at the time, because at that time I did not listen to Live yet and at that time he was working on TC and had not even written SS and so not even written everything after).

Ed started to come up with something very clever and good (in my opinion): he started to learn to make another kind of pizza's!
One with brocolli, aspersion, tomatoes, cheese and sweet pepper and a little unions (in the end he is still Ed, but he uses a sweeter kind of sharpness now).
And Chad, Chad and Patrick did not mind to make a new kind of pizzabottoms that fit with the new ingredients (a little softer).
I love that one!

I feel frustrated when people don't see the vegetables in this new kind of pizza's or say that they don't like the cheese before thay have ever tasted it.
But instead of that I should feed myself with it, like Ed does and tells me and grow from it.
Maybe I can manage to help someone else to grow too someday, but I'm not yet eating Live's newest pizza.
I eat the one that he made for the first time about 5 and a half years ago.
But his pizza looks tasty to me, but the one who is ready for it is entitled to try and enjoy and grow from it first.

What am I gonna do now?
I'm gonna enjoy my favorite pizza and let it feed me with the wisdom Live gives me, with the newer kind of pizzabottom that Chad, Chad an Patrick have made and the brocolli, aspersion, tomatoes, sweet pepper and cheese and the few unions that Ed puts in it!
I wasted enough time with letting you try it, you refuse to see what's in there or you just don't see it yet.
My pizza is cold now.
Thank God I have a microwave to warm it up.
Maybe tomorrow I try the next one but I see if it happens.

What do I think that you can do now?
Well, enjoy the pizza's which feed you with something you like or maybe need at this moment of your life.
But stop blaming for example Diane, Beau99, Rocknerd and me for loving the newer ones.
And all above: stop blaming Live and especially Ed for making pizza's you don't like or in which you just refuse to see the ingredients and so refuse to eat.
They do their best, but you don't see it (yet).
Learn to eat them when you are ready for it.
And I promise you that I will try to keep my patience each time you refuse or spit out the pizza's Live tries to feed you with.
Because that is something I have to learn.

Meanwhile I'm gonna rush to my microwave and warm up one of my favorite pizza's.

GvB.

This post has been edited by GvB: Oct 17 2006, 1:04 pm

[mrmcpheezy]

A break would be good. They could study what it takes to make songs that make the radio. That would mean studying what it takes to make good songs.

*kills self*

[mrmcpheezy]

Holy fuck. You're more of an idiot than I thought.

[alexou]

I don't understand all this thing about if Live needs to quit or not. I think they deserve all what they get now. Since BOP (V at a certain level), they have decided to put less effort in the process of making a record. The Chads and Pat have also decided to do less because anyway they are not involved in the band that much anymore.

So OF COURSE the records are not as good as the others. So less people talk about it, buy it or go to their concert because they didn't treat their loyal fans the good way. They are not totally truly involved in the music.

All the rest is only interpretations and opinions. People can enjoy BOP or SFBM, but no one can argue the amount of work for TDTH compared to SFBM that the band did. Ok, Throwing Copper was done in 3 weeks. But believe me, they didn't sleep a lot. It took 3 weeks to do SFBM, but they probably slept 8 hours a night. The level of creativity wasn't the same. NO ONE can argue that also. Hey! 5 songs of SFBM are using almost the same chord progression at a point of the song. (River and WDWGFH, Wings, All I need and You are not alone are also very similar)

To be continued....

I still enjoy their show, even if the setlists are the proof that they didn't treat their real fan good over the years!!

Alex

[GvB]

Sorry if I hurt you.
I come up with something very dangerous now (maybe I came up with it before, but I'm not sure).
But if the Live from now is not the Live you want or need to hear, why caring about what they do?
There are a lot of other bands around that can give you if that is what you want or need.
Why don't you try something else that fits with what you want or need now?

Just a foolish question by a fool that doesn't mind to be a fool anymore.
Yes I'm a fool , a fool of life, and that makes me a foolish fan of the music that I like for example the music of Live.

GvB.

This post has been edited by GvB: Oct 18 2006, 6:55 am

[mrmcpheezy]

Do you deny that creativity is a good thing?
Do you deny that live's recent work is less creative than their older work?

If the answer to the second question is yes, then please back it up with something.

[Alex]

Sorry if I hurt you.
I come up with something very dangerous now (maybe I came up with it before, but I'm not sure).
But if the Live from now is not the Live you want or need to hear, why caring about what they do?
There are a lot of other bands around that can give you if that is what you want or need.
Why don't you try something else that fits with what you want or need now?

Just a foolish question by a fool that doesn't mind to be a fool anymore.
Yes I'm a fool , a fool of life, and that makes me a foolish fan of the music that I like for example the music of Live.

GvB.

Why do people keep suggessting that others don't like Live's new music because it doesn't 'rock'? Only a small handful of people have stated that as the reason they don't like Live's new stuff- almost everyone else doesn't like it because its not creative, its not well written, and the lyrics are freakin lame no matter how much you defend them.

Please stop using smileys to replace words. It upsets my stomach.

[GvB]

Sorry for trying to convince you.

GvB.

[Emma]

Are you kidding?? Call it quits?? And what is with this "about time they moved on comment"?

If your telling me you got no joy from their work on Black Mountain then your not much of a fan..... My greatest fear is if they stop making music. The only time when a band should consider stopping making music is if there is no inspiration left to inspire new material. Songs from black mountain is full of inspiration from a band that has withstood the music industry for nearly 20 years......AND can still make music relating to their lives now. Sure their sound is very different to the deep rock sounds of Throwing Copper and Secret Samadi....but if they continued to make albums similar to these we would get bored. Good on them for making different material in accordance to the points of their lives. It keeps up guessing about what their new albums are going to sound like. Bring on the new albums i say.

[chook]

If your telling me you got no joy from their work on Black Mountain then your not much of a fan.....

here we go again... why is it that if people don't like EVERYTHING that a band ever records, then they're not really a "fan"? i don't understand the reasoning behind that. i think SFBM is their weakest album, by far, but that doesn't mean i'm not a fan. i've bought every album, i buy every import single i can find, i've seen them in concert over 30 times, i've bought a ton of Live merchandise, i have a box full of local newspaper articles about Live and various magazines that feature them that i've been collecting over the years, but somehow i'm not a fan because i don't care for one of their albums? and all this time i've been throwing away my money for nothing...