Should Live Call It Quits?, Is it time? Options

[phungi]

I like fajitas.

fajitas need to be retired as a mexican dish. the last time I ordered them, they came with flowery garnish, were lacking spice, were the same dish night-in and night-out, and they were delayed by the kitchen for what seemed like forever.

[Bob]

I agree that the band needs to take a break, but not because they have been touring for too long. I mean, being a successful rock band is one of the best jobs out there. It's not like singing in front of fans that love your music is an arduous job. Sure, traveling to different venues around the world can be frustrating (not that I would know), but they are doing something they love. They should take a break to focus their energies on a better album and 1-2 years is not a long enough break.

I don't necessarily think that taking 2+ years off will make album 8 be any better than album 5, 6 or 7. The reason why the albums are going the way that they're going is because Ed is the main songwriter and Taylor doesn't have the same input that he did pre-V. We'll never know why, as it could be Ed wanting to take more songwriting duties on, or maybe it's because Taylor is busy with his TV shows, family, etc, but I think if Ed keeps solely writing the material in the band, album 8 will sound like album 7.

Taylor did say on his MySpace page that he's got new music he's gonna bring forward, so maybe album 8 will bring back some rockin' guitar goodness. I sure hope so.

... just my 2 cents.

[Senghe]

The problem is that the emotion of the music is not random. It is caused by the objective manner in which the song is written.

I disagree. This is how random it can be. Take 'Hit me baby one more time' by Britney Spears. It's just totally shit when she sings it - I hate it. but I've heard a band call Travis cover it and to be honest, it sounded really good. So it can depend on the delivery as much as the composition. I know lots of songs are written to illicit a certain emotion, but some of us are perceptive enough to know if it's written from the heart or is just cynical bullshit.

I know we've had this argument before, but the most technically brilliant music can be as dull as ditchwater and the most simple, seeimingly inane song can take flight spectacularly given the right treatment. It's all about the listener and we're all different - good job too or we'd all be listening to My Chemical Romance and thinking it's deep and meaningful!

This post has been edited by Senghe: Oct 11 2006, 11:59 am

[mrmcpheezy]

It is!
Otherwise everybody would like Live and even like the same songs best!
But because music is random everybody has a different taste.
Why else do you think that this subject causes so much emotional discussion?

Ok, step back and think about it for a second.

Whatever emotion you derive from a song (be it positive or negative) is determined by how the song sounds. Would anyone like to even attempt to state something else that influences whether or not you like a song? I doubt it. So, if a song sounded different (had they used different instrumentation, had they structured it different, had they extended a certian part of it, had they left it instrumental instead of adding vocals, had they reworked the parts to be in a different time signature, had they changed the song's key signature, etc), then you would have either liked it more, or less. All of those things are decisions made regarding the objective aspects of the song. Songs do not fucking create themselves, and we do not like songs because of something other than the song (except for occasional cases).

Make sense?

Tastes are different, you are correct, this does not mean that the effect a song has is random: again, the effect of a song is determined inherently by it's objective aspects, as those things make the song what it is.

I'd love to hear someone to attempt to argue otherwise.

For you it's maybe the louder, the darker, the more angry the more complicated written the better!
But for me I've got more with happiness and sadness and love and sometimes I prefer loud and sometimes quiet and sometimes I like lyrics which are direct and sometimes lyrics which aren't.
And I can appreciate as well a song which is performed with a whole band or even an orchestra as a song which is performed with only a piano or one guitar and as long the music and lyrics touch me.

What does this have to do with anything? You've strayed completely away from the quality of a song's composition and now you're talking soley about personal preferences, which don't relate to what we're talking about at all.

According to her fans, she does.
For some reason they feel touched by her music but I can't stand it.

Again, whether or not they like the fucking music is not the issue.

Let me tell you a story to explain you my point of view:

Last year I was with a whole group on holiday and there was always music around, every kind of music was played as well music I love as music I hate.
One evening they started to play a song by a Dutch singer whoose music and voice I absolutely can't stand.
But the man I was talking with that moment started to cry.
I asked him what was up and he told me that he always enjoyed the songs of that singer and that he had always listened to and sungen along with it together with his best friend.
But his best friend had died.
But it was as if the music gave him a bit his friend back during a song of that singer.

Well, then I sat there with all my music theory, my own taste and with my hate to the songs and the voice of that singer.
Not knowing what to say or do.
But the emotion of that man was so pure.
I always relate most to songs I feel something for because I recognize something in it (emotion, life-event, dream).
And on that moment I learned that there are people who have that with music which is totally different from my taste and not to judge that.

So, in my opinion: music is random.

Do with it what you want.

GvB.

What does this have to do with anything?

He had an emotional connection to that musician's songs...yeah, and, so, what?

Again, personal preferences differ, this is not the issue.

I don't like live because I don't like the way their songs sound. I don't like the way their songs sounds because of the way their songs are written (duh). Don't tell me I'm thinking too much, and that the quality of the composition of their songs is irrelevant and that we should just sit back and enjoy them: I can't enjoy them because they're terribly written.

Any questions?

[mrmcpheezy]

I disagree. This is how random it can be. Take 'Hit me baby one more time' by Britney Spears. It's just totally shit when she sings it - I hate it. but I've heard a band call Travis cover it and to be honest, it sounded really good.

Did this band use the exact same instrumentation and song structure? Did the singer's voice sound exactly the same?

I doubt it. Except maybe about the structure of the song, that might have been the same. Point is, you like one and not the other. The two songs are different. Clearly, it is those differences that cause you to like one version and not the other.

So, you're wrong. Sorry.

I know we've had this argument before, but the most technically brilliant music can be as dull as ditchwater and the most simple, seeimingly inane song can take flight spectacularly given the right treatment.

Thank you for agreeing with me. By seperating the objective quality of the song and the emotion you get from it, you agree with my point entirely.

Just because a song is well written does not mean you will like.

You liking a song does not mean it is well written.

Thank you again for agreeing with me.

[GvB]

.... this does not mean that the effect a song has is random: again, the effect of a song is determined inherently by it's objective aspects, as those things make the song what it is.

Objective aspects, in other words: how it's produced and sungen and ....written....

Just because a song is well written does not mean you will like.

You liking a song does not mean it is well written.

Man!
You're confused! Because if you like a song, then it means that IT IS GOOD TO YOU!

Make up your mind about what's most important to YOU about a song, is it what YOU think of how it's written or performed or YOUR experience of the song or what OTHER PEOPLE (for example people with knowledge about that kind of music) think about it!

I have already found out what's important to me: and that is THE FEELING if a song can give me a good feeling or make something clear to me or helps me through something, then it's good to me.
And that is not in if it's written on a high level or not, the style matters a little to me because I prefer rock and pop/rockballads above other styles.
But even that is random, because if I had lived in a ghetto I would maybe have loved hiphop.
A song can really move me and making me loving it because of one lyric that touches me (or all the lyrics), the way it's sungen and how I feel about the music, for whatever what reason.
If I can connect to it, then I love it.
I don't care how other people think or feel about it at all, AS LONG AS PEOPLE DON'T TELL ME THAT IT IS BAD, BECAUSE IT'S BAD TO THEM.

What I wanted to make clear with that story about that man was: I have learned on that moment that good or bad music is random and not to judge peoples taste, because music (whatever what music) can always connect to someones feelings, the style, the way it's written what it sounds like can be totally crap to you, but maybe your parents, your brother(s) or sister(s) or your best friend or your neighbours or someone you just met love it and think that it's the best song ever!
You can't say music IS good or bad.
You can just say that YOU'RE OPINION is that it's good or bad.
Musical taste has to do with personal feelings of people and yeah people are all different so have all different feelings on music and art.
And because of the fact that there are feelings involved, I say music is random!

GvB.

This post has been edited by GvB: Oct 12 2006, 9:31 am

[SecretInsomnia]

Make up your mind about what's most important to YOU about a song, is it what YOU think of how it's written or performed or YOUR experience of the song or what OTHER PEOPLE (for example people with knowledge about that kind of music) think about it!

I've made up my mind too,a long time ago
I choose for the FEELING too

[Wambangalang]

Don henleys "boys of summer" is a song i like. DJ Sammys "Boys of summer" is a song i like too. The Ataris "boys of summer" is a song i hate. Three different artists. Three songs with the same lyrics. Three different songs.

I liked the original movie "The Omen". The remake was pure shit. So pure if you pulverised it, lined it up and snorted it, youd OD in a microsecond. Yet it was a scene for scene, shot for shot remake. But still a completely different movie. As much as i hate to admit it, dick breath (mrmcpheezy) is right.

[mrmcpheezy]

I've made up my mind too,a long time ago
I choose for the FEELING too

First off, wtf?

Are people liking songs for things other than how that song makes them feel? I doubt it. Liking a song because of how it makes you feel is not a choice, it's how things fucking work.

[SecretInsomnia]

First off, wtf?

Are people liking songs for things other than how that song makes them feel? I doubt it. Liking a song because of how it makes you feel is not a choice, it's how things fucking work.

WRONG
...there are people who tellin other people some well written songs are great and they enjoy it for that reason...so they can tell other people: look I found such an intelligent music ..or something. Stupid? yeah, maybe, but that's another discussion. But they only like it because they think they found something original, but feeling...no, they don't feel anything by their songs.

This post has been edited by SecretInsomnia: Oct 12 2006, 4:27 pm

[GvB]

yes...there are people who tellin other people some well written songs are great and they enjoy it for that reason...so they can tell other people: look I found such an intelligent music ..or something. Stupid? yeah, maybe, but that's another discussion. But they only like it because they think they found something original, but feeling...no, they don't feel anything by their songs.

YES! Thank you for saying this, SecretInsomnia!

Mrmcpeezy: if you look back at your own posts in this topic, then you find out that you self are at least one of the people SecretInsomnia is talking about.
Who else came up with "Emotion of the music is not random. It is caused by the OBJECTIVE manner in which the song is written. "?

GvB.

This post has been edited by GvB: Oct 12 2006, 3:47 pm

[mrmcpheezy]

WRONG
...there are people who tellin other people some well written songs are great and they enjoy it for that reason...so they can tell other people: look I found such an intelligent music ..or something. Stupid? yeah, maybe, but that's another discussion. But they only like it because they think they found something original, but feeling...no, they don't feel anything by their songs.

lol.

What the fuck are you talking about? Find one person on here that has never said they listened to a song they didn't enjoy hearing simply because they thought it was well written.

You won't.

Granted (as I already stated) there are occasional cases where you make some mental connection between a song or artist and someone/thing else of importance to you, and so you might like them because of that connection. But aside from cases such as those, stfu, no one sits around listening to music they don't like simply because it's complicated, intelligent, or anything else like that. That's fucking ridiculous and you know it.

[mrmcpheezy]

Mrmcpeezy: if you look back at your own posts in this topic, then you find out that you self are at least one of the people SecretInsomnia is talking about.
Who else came up with "Emotion of the music is not random. It is caused by the OBJECTIVE manner in which the song is written. "?

GvB.

Are you an idiot, or what?

The reason you listen to a song is because you like it, but the reason you like a song is because of how it was written (aka: it's objective aspects). Take any song that you like. If it had been written differently (aka: had it's objective aspects been different), you'd either like it more or less. This is, obviously, true of everyone. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to grasp?

You listen to the songs you do because you like them, but you like them because of their objective aspects.

Doyou get it yet? It's not as though music somehow exists and is yet completely devoid of objective aspects and that we're incapable of putting it together or measuring it's various aspects in an objective manner: we clearly can, though you're probably not able to on any level whatsoever.

A song's tempo, key signature, time signature, chord progressions, the timbre of the vocalist, the guitar effects, the dynamics, the balance of all the instruments...all of these things determine a song's sound, which is obviously what determines whether or not you like a song. And all of these things can be measured objectively.

This isn't to say that you should determine what song's to listen to by sitting down and measuring all of these things: no one does that.

What I'm saying is that if a song you like were written differently, you'd either like it more or less. This relates to live in that: if their recent songs were written differently, there are a lot of us here who would like them a lot more.

So, don't tell us to just sit back and feel the songs and stop thinking: that has nothing to do with it. The reason we don't listen to them is because we don't like hearing them, and the reason we don't like hearing them is the manner in which they were written, arranged, and composed.

[SecretInsomnia]

lol.

What the fuck are you talking about? Find one person on here that has never said they listened to a song they didn't enjoy hearing simply because they thought it was well written.

You won't.

Granted (as I already stated) there are occasional cases where you make some mental connection between a song or artist and someone/thing else of importance to you, and so you might like them because of that connection. But aside from cases such as those, stfu, no one sits around listening to music they don't like simply because it's complicated, intelligent, or anything else like that. That's fucking ridiculous and you know it.

"On here"??, I didn't mention this board by saying that, did I? Don't imply things I haven't wrote down here please... Tnx!

And it's not 'fucking ridiculous' to say it in mrmcpheezylanguage. I know anough people from my class I was in years ago, that everyday came up with music and songs and stuff just to show the rest they were listening to something 'cool', 'nobody knows the band','it's orgininal', and that things you know. When the band or solo artist got a hit, they were like...ahh no, commercial....they are making no good music anymore.... but it was the same f*ckin' music mrmcpheezy!!! The music didn't changed because it was a hit than....

So don't deny that they sit around at schoool, listening to music they don't like simply because it's complicated. Cauz they did!! I can't imagine they listening ever to the music when they are all alone on their room or something...maybe they didn't listen to music at all when they were alone

Maybe this way of dealing with music is fadin' away when those people get older (although I see the same way by adults often), but you can't deny it.

And please read my posts twice, and write a comment AFTER that...

ohw,and again: WRONG.

[Senghe]

Did this band use the exact same instrumentation and song structure? Did the singer's voice sound exactly the same?

I doubt it. Except maybe about the structure of the song, that might have been the same. Point is, you like one and not the other. The two songs are different. Clearly, it is those differences that cause you to like one version and not the other.

So, you're wrong. Sorry.

My misunderstanding - for once I actually now get your point. Though I do think you could have been a little clearer as you don't actually mean just written, you mean written and performed.