The Songwriting of Live Options

[World Dreamer]

So if Live was an entity for the four of them, how do you feel about them moving on with a new singer? Do you think their new album will outsell SFBM? The Gracious Few with Kevin Martin replacing Ed sold about the same as Alive in the US and didn't fare well at all overseas.

Touring wise, Live was always the four of them(and I would include Adam as a huge part of the band in that respect). Writing wise, Ed was the main force and deserved a bigger share of the pie than he received.

[PurdueSteve]

To answer the question, I believe that Ed wrote the bulk of the music and melody for the majority of Live's songs. If Pat or Chad added anything extra, it was credited on the album. A person can write a complete song and have others perform it. Not every person who contributes to a band musically receives songwriting credit or royalty.

Think of the two versions of Overcome.

Royalties are in place to cover the (licensed I guess) usage of a song.
The writing credit is in place, just for that, the credit.

They are not synonymous and are not interchangeable.

I could have the credit of writing a song wherein Pokey played drums and Fish played bass. The Royalty for the studio credit (as agreed) would go to all of us for whenever the studio track is licensed to someone else (an advertiser, a tv show, ect). When the track is played it would be Pokey's drums and Fish's bass being heard.

Now for the song writing credit, I would own that. If I wanted to re-record the song with just an acoustic guitar then I probably could. If Ed Kowalczyk wanted to do a cover of my song he could pay me for the rights, ect.

Also, Ed completing a song on acoustic guitar and CAG laying down drums doesn't mean CAG is just "performing it". Ed, AFAIK, hasn't "completed" a whole song in the sense of creating the drum, bass and other guitar parts beyond the melody.

[SJN1279]

Right well there you go, "I believe", you may as well have ended that sentence with "that Ed is a 40 foot penguin" because no one gives a shit what you believe since you can't back it up. Your opinion does not make fact.
You do not know this for a fact. If so, prove it.

Look at the linear notes on all your Live albums for proof.

[Pokey]

Look at the linear notes on all your Live albums for proof.

Cheers for completely over looking all points about how people can contribute to songs without being song writers.

So by what you're saying, none of Ed's band now have lifted a finger to help in any way shape of form to help in the writing process because the credits go to Ed? Even though Ed said that Ramy has chipped in with bits before? Your theory just has way too many holes in it man.

So are you ready to tell us yet why you want Ed back together with CCP? You know, since you see CCP as totally useless, isn't it just better Ed stays on his own and it's no different?

[SJN1279]

Cheers for completely over looking all points about how people can contribute to songs without being song writers.

I never said that CCP didn't contribute to the songs, but Ed was the one who wrote the bulk of them(hence why Ed should have received a much bigger piece of the band's song-writing royalties).

The band linear notes shows you which member had the biggest hand in songwriting for Live(and he only received 25 percent for his efforts). The seeds of discontent were planted long ago.

This post has been edited by SJN1279: Nov 28 2012, 2:40 pm

[Pokey]

I never said that CCP didn't contribute to the songs, but Ed was the one who wrote the bulk of them(hence why Ed should have received a much bigger piece of the band's song-writing royalties).

The band linear notes shows you which member had the biggest hand in songwriting for Live(and he only received 25 percent for his efforts). The seeds of discontent were planted long ago.

Ugh you contradict yourself so often..

You just have no idea what you're talking about, this is like if I went onto a car board an started trying to talk about cars... You just do not understand how song writing comes together. Is it really THAT important to you that Ed gets paid X amount? How does that benefit you? Do you find it pleasurable?

You ignored my point about Ramy.

You ignored my question about HOW Ed "isn't perfect" like you said. I'm curious to know what wrongs you think Ed has done.

And feel like indulging us in why you want Ed back in Live when you're basically saying the rest of the band is useless? Why does Ed need CCP?

[World Dreamer]

Ugh you contradict yourself so often..

You just have no idea what you're talking about, this is like if I went onto a car board an started trying to talk about cars... You just do not understand how song writing comes together. Is it really THAT important to you that Ed gets paid X amount? How does that benefit you? Do you find it pleasurable?

You ignored my point about Ramy.

You ignored my question about HOW Ed "isn't perfect" like you said. I'm curious to know what wrongs you think Ed has done.

And feel like indulging us in why you want Ed back in Live when you're basically saying the rest of the band is useless? Why does Ed need CCP?

Nick, is your inability to answer these questions because you were given talking points and won't stray from them in fear of getting in over your head?

[SJN1279]

. Is it really THAT important to you that Ed gets paid X amount? How does that benefit you? Do you find it pleasurable?

The point is that all you heard on this board for two years is how Ed stole from his lifelong friends with a secret contract. What you never heard is that Ed's lifelong friends took advantage of a favorable contract signed in 1991, and allowed Ed to do the majority of their songwriting throughout the course of their career, but still collect 75 percent of the royalties while he only received 25(despite doing the bulk of the work).

[themaestro]

To answer the question, I believe that Ed wrote the bulk of the music and melody for the majority of Live's songs. If Pat or Chad added anything extra, it was credited on the album. A person can write a complete song and have others perform it. Not every person who contributes to a band musically receives songwriting credit or royalty.

Fuuuuuuck, Fuck, FUCK! You are painting everything with such a broad stroke. Look, the liner notes say what they say. I doubt that is their full legal agreement between band members on songwriting credits and royalties. Funky spelled it out before and you were proven to be way off base in your assessment of who got credit for what. Bottom line is, we get that you think Ed deserves more. More credit, more money, more notoriety, more of everything. Great. That's why he went solo. But guess what, now he's getting more of less. Yeah, 100% of very little will not equate to what he could have earned as 25% of Live. He fucked that up. So who gives a shit if he gets full credit. Full credit for what he is doing now or what he did with SFBM doesn't mean squat.

[themaestro]

The point is that all you heard on this board for two years is how Ed stole from his lifelong friends with a secret contract. What you never heard is that Ed's lifelong friends took advantage of a favorable contract signed in 1991, and allowed Ed to do the majority of their songwriting throughout the course of their career, but still collect 75 percent of the royalties while he only received 25(despite doing the bulk of the work).

The point is that this is merely the opinion of someone who has very little value for the contributions of the 3 others and the distinct, inherit, value that only they could have given the band and it's identity as Live. The very identity that gives Ed the opportunity to continue to earn a living today. This band would have never existed if Ed had demanded 70% or 100% or whatever you suggest as his fair share. He needed them as much as they needed him and is such reflected in their contractual agreements, the ones you seem to ignore.

[SinfulEyes]

Has no one noticed no one is backing Nicki on this? He's fucking delusional and you guys are feeding him.

[Pokey]

The point is that all you heard on this board for two years is how Ed stole from his lifelong friends with a secret contract. What you never heard is that Ed's lifelong friends took advantage of a favorable contract signed in 1991, and allowed Ed to do the majority of their songwriting throughout the course of their career, but still collect 75 percent of the royalties while he only received 25(despite doing the bulk of the work).

Jesus Christ you are demented... You say CCP are at fault for not leaving Live sooner if they were unhappy with things, but it's fine for Ed to have stayed there unhappy with his 25% for years?
Dude he accepted 25% because THEY WORKED TOGETHER AS A UNIT. They shared in it together, they supported each other and were a team that worked so well in unison. If Ed was so wronged by his 25% he should have left sooner, back in the 90s... Isn't that what you say of CCP?

Nice to see you are STILL dodging those questions, you really are gutless.

[World Dreamer]

The point is that all you heard on this board for two years is how Ed stole from his lifelong friends with a secret contract. What you never heard is that Ed's lifelong friends took advantage of a favorable contract signed in 1991, and allowed Ed to do the majority of their songwriting throughout the course of their career, but still collect 75 percent of the royalties while he only received 25(despite doing the bulk of the work).

Nick, dude, Ed is out of Live and Live is returning with Shinn. They will release albums as Live and tour as Live. Ed is going to be able to continue putting out his "best work ever" and get all the royalties he can get his greedy little hands on.

This is nothing but Nick trying a last minute crusade to squeeze the name of Live for a little more coin. He is attempting to put the blame of mistakes made by Ed at the feet of CCP. Again, spin and justification for his hero.

[Pokey]

Exactly WD, and yet I still want to hear from him why he wants Ed back with CCP, why does Ed need these seemingly useless and replaceable individuals? You know, an answer that has to do with the music and why HE wants it to happen, not why "the fans" want it, why HE wants Ed back with CCP?

[PurdueSteve]

I never said that CCP didn't contribute to the songs, but Ed was the one who wrote the bulk of them(hence why Ed should have received a much bigger piece of the band's song-writing royalties).

The band linear notes shows you which member had the biggest hand in songwriting for Live(and he only received 25 percent for his efforts). The seeds of discontent were planted long ago.

Why are you saying they are "song writing royalties". They are royalties from licensing. Not song writing royalties. (which may exist in conjunction with the primary royalties).

If you read anything I've wrote or what others have wrote you'd get this.

TV show plays the album version of Lakini's Juice - Royalty to the collective band as their work (drum, bass, and guitar tracks are being used)

American idol wants to license Lakini's Juice and it's performed by the house band - Song writing royalty.