The Songwriting of Live Options

[Merica]

No fan of music should really care about royalty percentages, much less to the levels of obsession that Nick does. As I said, mental issues.

[Pokey]

I have NEVER seen anyone on any message boards been this obsessed over band member's payments and royalties, seriously, it's fucking freaky, creepy and obsessive. Usually regular, normal people may obsess over the music itself.

This post has been edited by Pokey: Nov 28 2012, 10:23 am

[World Dreamer]

I have NEVER seen anyone on any message boards been this obsessed over band member's payments and royalties, seriously, it's fucking freaky, creepy and obsessive.

We have established that Nick is VERY attached to and EXTREMELY biased towards his "heroes".

[Merica]

He'll blur the lines of reality to protect his heroes by trying to attack 'characters' on a wrestling show that oppose his heroes. And he believes it's real.

[World Dreamer]

And Nick, that is not me taking a shot at you, that is just what I see and wanted to remind others of it. It is frustrating to argue with you because it feels like anytime a valid point is made you are sitting at your computer shaking your head in denial as you try to justify everything so that Ed comes out clean.

This post has been edited by World Dreamer: Nov 28 2012, 10:33 am

[SJN1279]

And Nick, that is not me taking a shot at you, that is just what I see and wanted to remind others of it. It is frustrating to argue with you because it feels like anytime a valid point is made you are sitting at your computer shaking your head in denial as you try to justify everything so that Ed comes out clean.

Ed isn't perfect, but he has been made out to be a bad guy who stole from his friends. When in fact CCP benefited from an unfair contract for years, and made millions off of what should have been Ed's songwriting royalties.

Onto the secret contract, do you guys feel that CCP were responsible for writing 30 percent of SFBM?

[themaestro]

This has got to be one of his silliest arguments ever, and that's saying a lot. Purdue laid it out pretty well. To add to that, songs are a continual work in progress until the producers says "it's in the can".
In a collaborative environment it's absolutely impossible to assign the actual amount of credit each is due as it can be vastly different on every song. At the end of the day the were comfortable with an equal split. Makes sense. They all had indelible marks on the band.

When they were together they continually influenced each other, talking about life, love, politics, whatever. They brought that all together and it came out in the form of their music. Take one guy out and it would not have been the same and we would likely have never heard of them. CT knew this was the incubator for their success and lamented the fact that they didn't honor this collaborative environment of friends and equal partners in the recording of TC. He knew what made them tick and looking back on it would have done anything in his power to protect that. He now sees that creating music in that disjointed way did not honor what made them who they were and the music what it was and it led to them getting away from that down the road.

To challenge anything beyond the fact that they were clearly equal partners as friends and bandmates in their early years is ridiculous. If you can't see it, hear it, feel it, and believe it then I'm not quite sure you fully appreciated or understood Live to their fullest. More of a casual type fan I'd say. If none of that back story and history and collaborative way of making the music that impacted so many matters much to you then I just think you really don't get it. You can't just plug someone else in to do CCP's parts. You'd have Alive. How does that stack up against Live's first 4 albums?

This post has been edited by themaestro: Nov 28 2012, 10:53 am

[Merica]

You can't just plug someone else in to do CCP's parts. You'd have Alive. How does that stack up against Live's first 4 albums?

It's like comparing a steaming pile of shit to four magnificent sunsets.

[World Dreamer]

Ed isn't perfect, but he has been made out to be a bad guy who stole from his friends. When in fact CCP benefited from an unfair contract for years, and made millions off of what should have been Ed's songwriting royalties.

Onto the secret contract, do you guys feel that CCP were responsible for writing 30 percent of SFBM?

Ed signed the contract so he thought it was fair. How do you know the contract was unfair? Why didn't Ed say something if it was unfair? What are your assumptions based off of?

How do you know CCP weren't responsible for 30% of SFBM? Again, what are you basing your assumptions off of?

By now you must realize you get all this heat because you pass off assumptions and opinions as truth. You don't back up any of your accusations or "facts". Look at what I bolded above. The contract being unfair is your opinion yet you call it fact. If it is fact back it up.

If Ed is running around signing all these unfair contracts that is on him. Maybe you should be posting these issues on the Zion message board since Ed approved it. Maybe he will answer these questions for you.

[themaestro]

Ed isn't perfect, but he has been made out to be a bad guy who stole from his friends. When in fact CCP benefited from an unfair contract for years, and made millions off of what should have been Ed's songwriting royalties.

Oh, I see. Trying to justify Ed's scheming.

[Pokey]

Ed isn't perfect

This, and "Ed's no angel" have been the closest you have come to saying anything negative about Ed since you went off at him on SOY years ago, but you never elaborate on it. Tell us why Ed isn't perfect, in your eyes? It seems like such a cop out answer, where are Ed's downfalls? This should be good for a laugh.

Onto the secret contract, do you guys feel that CCP were responsible for writing 30 percent of SFBM?

Guys, seriously, don't answer this, if he can't answer our questions, this will just ensure things go around in circles, he needs to stop answering questions with questions.

This has been answered for you before, it isn't a clever point because when I answered it for you, you went quiet and couldn't reply. You couldn't even answer me when I've asked you god knows how many times about how legit, honest and above board this contract really is since it had to be done in secret.

This post has been edited by Pokey: Nov 28 2012, 10:58 am

[SJN1279]

How does that stack up against Live's first 4 albums?

If you want to go by album notes:

The first 3 albums are credited as this:

All lyrics written by Ed Kowalczyk, all music composed by Live. Which means all four supposedly worked on the music, while Ed wrote the lyrics. If that was the case, Ed should receive a larger royalty than CCP, since he wrote the lyrics solo, and contributed to the music as well.

On The Distance to Here:
All songs written by Ed Kowalczyk, except:
"Run to the Water" (Kowalczyk, Patrick Dahlheimer)
"Voodoo Lady" (Kowalczyk, Chad Taylor)
"They Stood Up for Love" (Kowalczyk, Dahlheimer, Taylor)
10 songs were credited to Ed solo yet he still shared 75 percent of royalties with CCP including major hit The Dolphin's Cry.

V:
All songs written by Ed, royalties shared by full band.

BOP:
All songs written by Ed Kowalczyk, except:
"Like I Do" (Kowalczyk, Patrick Dahlheimer, Chad Taylor)
"Lighthouse" (Kowalczyk, Taylor) – 3:08
9 songs written by Ed solo including the hit Heaven, where he only received 25 percent royalties.

SFBM
All Ed, and yet CCP are suing over song-writing royalties for songs they didn't write and have denounced.

[World Dreamer]

If you want to go by album notes:

The first 3 albums are credited as this:

All lyrics written by Ed Kowalczyk, all music composed by Live. Which means all four supposedly worked on the music, while Ed wrote the lyrics. If that was the case, Ed should receive a larger royalty than CCP, since he wrote the lyrics solo, and contributed to the music as well.

On The Distance to Here:
All songs written by Ed Kowalczyk, except:
"Run to the Water" (Kowalczyk, Patrick Dahlheimer)
"Voodoo Lady" (Kowalczyk, Chad Taylor)
"They Stood Up for Love" (Kowalczyk, Dahlheimer, Taylor)
10 songs were credited to Ed solo yet he still shared 75 percent of royalties with CCP including major hit The Dolphin's Cry.

V:
All songs written by Ed, royalties shared by full band.

BOP:
All songs written by Ed Kowalczyk, except:
"Like I Do" (Kowalczyk, Patrick Dahlheimer, Chad Taylor)
"Lighthouse" (Kowalczyk, Taylor) – 3:08
9 songs written by Ed solo including the hit Heaven, where he only received 25 percent royalties.

SFBM
All Ed, and yet CCP are suing over song-writing royalties for songs they didn't write and have denounced.

Why did Ed enable them? This is all his fault.

[PurdueSteve]

I find it shady to collect millions of dollars on song-writing royalties when you weren't involved with the writing process of a song.

Again, did Ed write the parts for all instruments? Why can't you understand this (or really, why do you choose to be purposefully obtuse?)

CAG wrote his drum parts. PD wrote his bass parts. They wrote part of the song. That is, by literal definition of words (something we know you have problems with) "involved with the writing process of a song".

Everytime these songs are played in a Ford commercial or whatever, it's CAGs drum arrangement and PDs basslines, that they wrote respectively, that are featured just as it is Ed's lyrics.

This doesn't even account for their input on song arrangement of which we have video evidence of occurring.

[World Dreamer]

Again, did Ed write the parts for all instruments? Why can't you understand this (or really, why do you choose to be purposefully obtuse?)

CAG wrote his drum parts. PD wrote his bass parts. They wrote part of the song. That is, by literal definition of words (something we know you have problems with) "involved with the writing process of a song".

Everytime these songs are played in a Ford commercial or whatever, it's CAGs drum arrangement and PDs basslines, that they wrote respectively, that are featured just as it is Ed's lyrics.

This doesn't even account for their input on song arrangement of which we have video evidence of occurring.

Nick can only see Ed.

This post has been edited by World Dreamer: Nov 28 2012, 11:07 am