The Songwriting of Live Options

[+Ed+]

It is crummy to get paid for something you don't participate in. They let Ed do the majority of the work throughout the band's run, and they took the majority of the compensation.

Then they sue when Ed creates a new contract that entitles him to 100 percent of the songwriting credit(which he deserved).

SO what you are saying is that he wrote all the guitar, bass and drum parts for all the songs?

[Wambangalang]

Of course he did. His new album btw is called "I Lived". Did anybody know that? Amazing how you can play around with the name Live like that. I suggest however..., "Fucked".

On topic though, as a lyricist i believe it is/was Ed's job to drive the music thematically and conceptually. But can we get someone in here please, like a band member, to tell us if Ed did actually, as +Ed+ questions, write all of the parts that make up all or most or even some of the songs?... like did he sit there throughout the first ten years of album sessions and say to chad "ok, now you will do this", and to Pat, "now you will do that"...and so forth. Even if his creativity did drive the construction of the music, like the conductor of an orchestra, or the director of a film production, why did it take over a decade to decide that he deserves to be billed and rewarded financially for playing that role? And How did he think this would sit with fans who admired the brotherhood that was evident to us in all of the relevant media, like when ed stated so humbly that Live is and always will be "One plus one plus one plus one, equals LIVE"??

[Merica]

Dan, seriously... why do you let the virus spread around here? It couldn't possibly be clearer how much of an idiot and a troll Nick is. He has single handedly ruined this message board. Years of good discussions and history down the crapper because of one slimy, cancerous toad. Just ban him already.

This post has been edited by Merica: Nov 28 2012, 6:04 am

[SJN1279]

Just because 4 members play on an album, doesn't mean four members should get equal writing credit when it isn't the case. Certain members write and play, others just play. When they add something new, like Pat did on Run to the Water and POD, they deserve writing credit. Otherwise, they are just using their talent to perform(and there is nothing wrong with that).

[SctSamadhi]

Just because 4 members play on an album, doesn't mean four members should get equal writing credit when it isn't the case. Certain members write and play, others just play. When they add something new, like Pat did on Run to the Water and POD, they deserve writing credit. Otherwise, they are just using their talent to perform(and there is nothing wrong with that).

Unfortunately I have to go to work now so don't have time to properly reply to all this garbage (I will save that for later) but all I want to say now is Nick you are fucking delusional and a waste of space on this board. Please go start up your own "I want to have Eddie K's babies" message board for you and the 3 other followers that have a man crush on him. You contribute nothing to this board other then to stir shit up on a constant basis. Don't you have anything better to do? No wonder why I don't visit this board as much as I used to.....

[Pokey]

Just because 4 members play on an album, doesn't mean four members should get equal writing credit when it isn't the case. Certain members write and play, others just play. When they add something new, like Pat did on Run to the Water and POD, they deserve writing credit. Otherwise, they are just using their talent to perform(and there is nothing wrong with that).

Oh shut the fuck up you don't know anything about music.

[+Ed+]

Just because 4 members play on an album, doesn't mean four members should get equal writing credit when it isn't the case. Certain members write and play, others just play. When they add something new, like Pat did on Run to the Water and POD, they deserve writing credit. Otherwise, they are just using their talent to perform(and there is nothing wrong with that).

Could you answer my question please?

Does this mean that all the songs, meaning, all the guitar parts, bass parts and drum parts were written by Ed Kowalczyk?

Saying this, do you think that Patrick did not write bass parts to Sofia and Good Pain, PLOTR and OK?

If you say he only "performs using his talent". Ok, I can agree that he is very talented. But who WROTE his bass parts?

[zmanpga]

eating popcorn.......god help the FOL

This post has been edited by zmanpga: Nov 28 2012, 7:50 am

[Hobbsy]

Just because 4 members play on an album, doesn't mean four members should get equal writing credit when it isn't the case. Certain members write and play, others just play. When they add something new, like Pat did on Run to the Water and POD, they deserve writing credit. Otherwise, they are just using their talent to perform(and there is nothing wrong with that).

Nick, your original point was about royalties - now you're talking about writing credit. You talk so much shit that you can't even remember the point you are trying to make.

So tell me Nick, exactly what percentage is Ed entitled to if he writes a song for Live? Hypothetical of course.

And if in fact PD or CT or shock horror CAG are entitled to writing credit, what percentage should Ed get then?

You've already stated that Ed deserves more than 25% - so exactly how much should it be?

This post has been edited by Hobbsy: Nov 28 2012, 8:10 am

[SJN1279]

Nick, your original point was about royalties - now you're talking about writing credit. You talk so much shit that you can't even remember the point you are trying to make.

So tell me Nick, exactly what percentage is Ed entitled to if he writes a song for Live? Hypothetical of course.

And if in fact PD or CT or shock horror CAG are entitled to writing credit, what percentage should Ed get then?

You've already stated that Ed deserves more than 25% - so exactly how much should it be?

If Ed wrote the music and lyrics to a song, 100 percent. If others contributed to the writing process, he should receive less.

[SJN1279]

Here is how it is split in Australia:

APRA guidelines

The person that wrote the lyrics would have an automatic 50% share of the royalty. If the same person wrote the music and arranged what all the other musicians played they would now get 100% and would be the only name on the credits.

If the person wrote the Lyrics and others worked out all the music / melody for it the lyric writer would get 50% and the remaining 50% would be split up according to how much input everyone had, if only one other person worked out all the music they would get the whole remaining 50%. All contributors are acknowledged on the credits.

If the person wrote the lyrics and the music, but then when the song was introduced to the band the song was reworked around the original idea but the players had a big part in the final sound and added ideas, the Lyric writer would get 50% and then they would get an extra share of the 50% split between the band. for example 4 piece band, 1 lyric writer then all 4 worked on the song, lyric writer gets 62.5% the other 3 get 12.5% each. All contributors get acknowledged on the credits.

[PurdueSteve]

Just because 4 members play on an album, doesn't mean four members should get equal writing credit when it isn't the case. Certain members write and play, others just play. When they add something new, like Pat did on Run to the Water and POD, they deserve writing credit. Otherwise, they are just using their talent to perform(and there is nothing wrong with that).

Answer this question. If you ignore it we will all assume that you agree.

Did Ed write the parts of every instrument of every song? Did Ed write/create the drum parts, bass parts, chad's guitar parts? If he didn't write those parts how can he be the exclusive song writer?

A song like Lightning Crashes can go mostly to Ed, IMO. Even though Ed didn't write CAG's drum parts, the song follows it's acoustic origin closely. A song like White Discussion, not so much.

Have you ever been in a band? Can you even play an instrument?

You see, when you're in a band the forumulaic process to song writing can vary but it usually starts with a particular piece. Maybe it's basic structure of Lightning Crashes or maybe it's the riff of Lakini's Juice that the song starts with. Once you have the song started everyone has to contribute their instrument. Some bands then work internally to flesh out the song structure. "Do we go into pre-chorus here, do we use a bridge at all?"

If you look at Honest Man, whose main riff CT wrote and compare that with "Believe", even though the songs feature the same riff, they become different songs because of the different players. Believe and Honest Man aren't the same exact song even though both songs originated from the same starting idea, CT's riff.

Ed did NOT write all of the music. He may have been the one that got most of the songs started but to put finished tracks out the door, at least good tracks, it takes contributions from everyone involved.

I'm sure you've seen the little video of the band when they were in the studio creating the cover of "I walk the line". Notice how PD was involved in the creation of the guitar work and how they were talking about progressing from one part to another. It was a group discussion and a group process.

[World Dreamer]

Here is how it is split in Australia:

APRA guidelines

The person that wrote the lyrics would have an automatic 50% share of the royalty. If the same person wrote the music and arranged what all the other musicians played they would now get 100% and would be the only name on the credits.

If the person wrote the Lyrics and others worked out all the music / melody for it the lyric writer would get 50% and the remaining 50% would be split up according to how much input everyone had, if only one other person worked out all the music they would get the whole remaining 50%. All contributors are acknowledged on the credits.

If the person wrote the lyrics and the music, but then when the song was introduced to the band the song was reworked around the original idea but the players had a big part in the final sound and added ideas, the Lyric writer would get 50% and then they would get an extra share of the 50% split between the band. for example 4 piece band, 1 lyric writer then all 4 worked on the song, lyric writer gets 62.5% the other 3 get 12.5% each. All contributors get acknowledged on the credits.

I'm sorry, is York in Australia?

[PurdueSteve]

I'm sorry, is York in Australia?

Doesn't matter if it was or not. The APRA uses those as guidelines and members have to voluntarily take part in the group. We could start a band in Sydney and create our own agreement.

This is Nick grasping at straws to try and validate his point.

[PurdueSteve]

Ned,

Ed really promoted the fact that he "collaborated" with Chris Daughtry on Drink. Is collaboration valuable or not? If not, why did Ed feel the need to market this fact so much?

I'm going to go take some phenergan in preparations of the spin induced nausea that is inbound.