The Songwriting of Live Options

[alexou]

I'm sure that the guys would have maybe wanted to discuss about a decrease in royaties if they had met and discuss it prior to SFBM. CCP could have accepted that in exchange for a decreased participation.

Ed took the fastlane. He just decided alone for them all. Cheap move and probably an illegal one. What to say more?

[Merica]

Nick, you're so cleeeaaaaaarly terrible. Stop ruining the forum.

This post has been edited by Merica: Jul 19 2018, 9:03 am

[themaestro]

Isn't the 25% split among CCP the ultimatum that Ed gave them and the contract that he signed and agreed to with them? Are you now saying that he shouldn't have even honored his own proposal and written agreement with them and he was entitled to steal it all and give them 0%? They should have gotten at least the 25% because those were Ed's terms, right?

He's a flip floppin, double standard having hypocrite. He told everyone they should have a problem with CCP since they "enabled" Ed. Isn't that what Ed did if he was due 100% according to Nick? I mean, he did enable them to get 30% right? When they were due nothing according to Nick. Whatever fits his argument. Too bad he never addresses these things when he is caught red handed in his hypocrisy.

[OutToDry]

Did CCP write 30 percent of SFBM?

Ah right from the politician hand book. You're agreeing with white collar crime. Enjoy your virtual sentence in the FOL prison.

[themaestro]

Do you feel it was fair that the boys of Live received a 25 percent equal split on songwriting royalties, when not all members had equal contribution to the process? Chad Taylor recently wrote in a blog:

Ed seemed overly frustrated with the absence of PD and CG. I did all I could to help him see the value everyone brought to the table. To this day, I believe that the old line-up ended in that room; at least for Ed. It was simple for either he and I to just write what we wanted and present to the guys. In hind sight, we totally fucked up. Our internal communication with horrible and we simply didn’t know any better. I’ve asked myself a million times why I didn’t tell CG to not move to the west coast or demand that PD show up. I’m a better leader now but it hurts to know that I could have done more to protect the creative chemistry of the band. I’ll blame it on youth but who knew….

The notes on the linear notes for Live at the Paradiso read:

All music and lyrics by Ed Kowalczyk except(songs Chad Taylor contributed with Ed on)
Selling the Drama
Lakini's Juice
Operation Spirit
Purifier

Should CCP have amended their contract to give Ed a higher percentage or where they justified in making Ed do the majority of the songwriting work, but taking the same cut of the money?

Funky posted info on this for you before. I'm not about to sift through this forum but he clearly showed that CT, CG, and PD share songwriting credits on most of Live's work. You have been shown this and continue to ignore it. Whether or not you think it is fair is obsolete. So get over yourself and your admiration of Ed. You can't change the facts or history for your personal preference.

[FishOutaWater]

CCP had no problem taking 75 percent song writing credit and money for songs that Ed basically wrote 100 percent himself. I think that is a pretty crummy thing to do to a friend.

I would like to take note that Dan moved this discussion to its own thread about songwriting credit and post #1 is Nick's - because Nick is the one who took this off topic with a slanted, unfair attack on CCP. I just wanted to point that out as one of MANY examples of what goes on around here.

[SJN1279]

Funky posted info on this for you before. I'm not about to sift through this forum but he clearly showed that CT, CG, and PD share songwriting credits on most of Live's work. You have been shown this and continue to ignore it. Whether or not you think it is fair is obsolete. So get over yourself and your admiration of Ed. You can't change the facts or history for your personal preference.

They get songwriting credit due to the contract that was signed in 1991. Their actual contributions to live up to that contract are what I am questioning.

[FishOutaWater]

It is crummy to get paid for something you don't participate in.

No it is not crummy when you are receiving payments pursuant to a legally binding written contract signed by Ed that was based on Ed's proposal.

They let Ed do the majority of the work throughout the band's run, and they took the majority of the compensation.

False. The band was evenly divided when they had equal responsibility for its success.

Then they sue when Ed creates a new contract that entitles him to 100 percent of the songwriting credit(which he deserved).

False. Ed did not "create a new contract". How would that be? They didn't sign another contract. The 75/25 contract was in place, and then Ed secretly took 100%. You are seriously just making shit up.

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Nov 27 2012, 6:24 pm

[themaestro]

Their actual contributions to live up to that contract are what I am questioning.

And your qualifications to question that are?

[alexou]

Royalties are a thing, but participation in music is another. Still in SFBM, PD and CG played their parts. They must have been bored as hell but they still showed and played it. And not knowing at that time about the contract...what a shame. How can you defend something like that Nick and others?

Writing is not only words. bass and drums players don't always put their work on sheets. They go with feelings...as much as a singer would do. And they give their own flavor to the mix. Like others stated, it IS one of the main characteristics of the band LIVE.

[FishOutaWater]

Does anybody know how to look up album sales? I would like to compare the album sales of the Live albums with Alive. I am guessing that the value fo the original Live lineup might be demonstrated by the contrast in Ed's solo album sales with what LIve was able to sell as the band Live. That alone is why Ed owed it to the other members of the "franchise" to share the revenue. Because they all built that.

[SJN1279]

Does anybody know how to look up album sales? I would like to compare the album sales of the Live albums with Alive. I am guessing that the value fo the original Live lineup might be demonstrated by the contrast in Ed's solo album sales with what LIve was able to sell as the band Live. That alone is why Ed owed it to the other members of the "franchise" to share the revenue. Because they all built that.

I am not talking album sales revenue, I am talking songwriting credit and royalties. CCP should get a piece of album sales, but they shouldn't have gotten 25 percent songwriting royalty each.

This post has been edited by SJN1279: Nov 27 2012, 6:30 pm

[themaestro]

I'd like to know what is Nick's basis for questioning CCP's contributions to Live? What gives reason for that? What makes you qualified to even question that?

[SJN1279]

I think it is funny that CCP are wasting time suing over a contract for song royalties for Live's least profitable album(which they didn't contribute creatively). Be happy with your 75 percent of the rest of the catalog and move on with your life.

[themaestro]

Nick, have you read their contract? Do you know what is says exactly? Do you know if they had any non written agreements with which they created and recorded music? How would one quantify what they came up with together in a jam session or just on the fly? Were you ever around when they recorded music? Just a few questions that you can answer to begin to explain why the fuck you think you have the authority and wherewithal to question the contributions of any band member. Let's hear it.