Why did Chris Shinn really leave?, Scrolling old topics, looking for clues... Options

[Drew]

Chris Shinn in Retrospect

vivapokey
post Nov 17 2016, 10:06 am

Yes, the songs sounded different with his voice - how could they not? But that was ok, different is ok, so long as its good - and I thought it was great. He brought an energy and spirit back to the band I had been craving for so long.
[...]
I feel like he was handicapped - he got to write this great album and then the fuckers barely played any of it in concert over the tour. Yeah, he messed up some words here and there and he had one particularly bad gig, but, so what? Everyone has off nights and to me the mess ups just never bothered me too much. In the end, I feel like he was brought in and I think they wanted him to also have some of Ed's leadership qualities because as great as CCP are - they need a leader, they need someone to drive them, a workhorse. Ed has that to him. Chris didn't seem to be like that and I guess they hoped it would develop but .. I don't know. How could it? He surely couldn't ever really feel like it was "his" band to direct. It was an impossible situation in a lot of ways.

I believe it was this interview,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f5YE-BjuNc
or at least in one of the other parts, where Chad Taylor talks about how being with Chris meant not having to fight with Ed all the time about the music. In fact, Siren's Call is based off of an old 90's riff that was chucked aside. The actual hard rock guitar in that song was awesome. LIVE was able to get back to their ROCK ROOTS with Chris in the band. In fact, it's obvious he helped encourage that. "Don't Run To Wait" has amazing verses. Why wasn't LIVE putting out that kind of hard rock back around the mid 2000's? Ed had taken over by that point with his overly spiritual stuff that was frankly boring the shit out of me.

Voodoo Lady post Nov 18 2016, 11:06 am

Those who love The Turn, I'm happy for you. I don't know about Chris' solo stuff or Unified Theory, maybe it is indeed good. But as said above, he lacked stage presence for Live and messing up I Alone lyrics ("chained to pain" hurt my soul facepalm.gif ) is inexcusable. That just turns me off from wanting to check out his other stuff. I'm sure he's a good guy, as many of you here have said. And I'll reiterate that I appreciate the effort he gave to LIVE and for what he did for CCP.

Next.

vivapokey post Nov 18 2016, 12:55 pm

I also think Chris intentionally changed some lyrics in some songs, possibly to make them more "his". Which is fair enough, if your role is to sing songs that weren't yours then why not try put your own spin on them. For example, I'm almost certain in TDC its him changing "she will lead us" to "sheep will lead us". But really, I can't imagine going to a gig and being like "hmm that word wasn't the same word that I am used to hearing in this part of the song, get the manager I want to complain!" It was really only as big a deal as you made of it. Even Ed messing up his own lyrics, who cares.

Bremang post Nov 18 2016, 3:11 pm

Yeah, you might be right. Chris may have intentionally changed the lyrics. I'm sure also alot of casuals don't care. I didn't dig it tho, made me cringe a little. Lyrics are a thing that I like about Live, what can I say. Ed had a way with words. Chained to Pain, sheep will lead us, sounds corny to me. Changes the song. Obviously a personal preference for everyone.
[...]
Half the time I felt like Chad wanted to redact Chris's statements. On stage there were miscues. Just look at the video where Chris is trying to get a sip of water between songs, can't even pull it off. says it all. For those who think it's okay to not sing into the microphone, or wave it around, I would totally disagree. That was super weak, and not helping the song. Suddenly the vocals go silent and i'm like there goes the best part of the song. I'm sure Chris could improve, but I don't think he was that committed. He just wanted to front Live for a bit. He's already well off.

vivapokey post Nov 18 2016, 3:39 pm

all those things like waving the mic, breaks in singing .. I quite like that. It made things unique and not rehearsed to hell and it was like the other end of the spectrum where with Ed the show was choreographed to the point nothing felt natural. Chris to me felt like grass roots and I love that. The well oiled machine, the super sleek production ... it all just feels a bit fake and over produced to me. Its why I much prefer smaller intimate shows to big arena shows etc. Chris brought that to the band to me. He made it much more grass roots, warts and all. I don't want to see them all get together at the same point in the same song and take the same stupid bow. I don't want to see them make the same banter and stage talk on shows that is meant to come off as genuine when a clip on youtube shows them saying the exact same thing at the show the night before in another city. All things they did under Ed and Ed did solo.

LiveForNow post Jul 2 2019, 1:07 pm

I think Chris' vocals were really nice on certain Live songs and didn't fit as well on others. His vocals were especially good on I Alone. Here are two of my favorite versions with Chris:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Of79EAevBU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG3HfFhmMNE

Now for the bad. I went to three shows with Chris. Summerland 2013, The album release in fall 2014, and another concert in 2015. The last show was bad. Maybe 100 fans in a venue of 1,700. Chris forgot the lyrics to more than one song. He apologized to the crowd. It seemed clear that this era wasn't working commercially. Say what you want you will about money, but seeing a show with 100 fans in a venue for 1,700 is depressing and doesn't make for a good experience. I wouldn't have wanted to go to more shows like that and it seemed there wasn't enough demand for this lineup that they could do solo shows regularly.

Poor turnout. Forgetting song lyrics over a year in when he should have already honed a set or two and just listened and played those songs EVERY DAY until he got them. Was Shinn nervous? Did his work ethic suck?

[Drew]

Chris Shinn speaks
http://www.fansoflive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5805

AManHasNoName post Jan 3 2017, 4:30 pm
[...]
I have known about this decision for the past 8 months. It is a business decision, first and last. I have always worked under the assumption this day would arrive; so, it didn't come as a shock to me. That said, now that the day has arrived, my heart is broken. I will truly miss being a key part of such an epic band.

I have used the past 8 months to process and mourn this loss from a personal perspective. In some ways, it is a bittersweet relief to finally have it out in the open. After the announcement, I avoided getting online for fear of reading unkind words. But after Katie and others close to me insisted, I relented and slowly began reading the online comments. I was shocked at the positive response. It was unreal and completely unexpected. For every kind word, I want you to know from the bottom of my heart: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You will never know how much your words have encouraged me through a difficult personal crossroads. I only hope I can return the favor in the future.

-Chris Shinn

partial quotation of course.

In this individual post of that topic
http://www.fansoflive.com/forums/index.php...ndpost&p=130291
we have someone who thankfully made screenshots of CCP saying something nice about Chris' departure.

When we take Chris Shinn's comments about 8 months into consideration of his January 2017 facebook post, that means that since April or May 2016, he knew he would be gone in a few short months.

Fool_By_The_River post Jan 3 2017, 6:06 pm


Sounds like Shinn is trying to make it sound like it couldn't possibly have anything to do with him or the fact most of the fans wanted the original lineup back. I'm sure ECCP have wanted to give it another try also, they are almost life-long friends and probably missed being in a band together and the comradary.

alexou post Jan 3 2017, 6:13 pm


Chris would excuse himself for the times he messed with lyrics. I think he did after TBD at the AC/TC show.

The pillar of davidson version of that same show was just perfect. In a show in which the energy wasn't perfect for some reasons, that song just stunned all the fans. It was the only song fans were talking about after that show.

So let's recap. He knew in April/May 2016, that he would be gone by 2017. People had issues with his live performances. Such as not timing his water drinking properly. Stepping back from the mic at times to let fans sing (I'm sure Ed has done that at concerts since the 90's. Lots of rockers do it). The big one I'm sure is forgetting lyrics. He came into the fold around 2012 and in 2013 they started doing live performances with him on acoustic guitar. I'm not sure if those are still up on youtube but they were clips from whitediscussion.com or something like that.

I think one of the big things, was his fuckup of Lightning Crashes on Australian tv. I mean he had HOW MANY YEARS to get that song down? That was the biggest and most played single off Throwing Copper. How do you not learn that song perfectly in less than one year? Was Chris just not as professional as the other guys? Was he not up to the task? That was THE MORNING SHOW WITH KYLIE AND LARRY in 2015. Would that have been the straw that broke the camel's back? Did the guys say to him afterwards, "really man? really? That song? After all this time? We gotta have a serious talk soon..." And then in 2016 they finally said, "You're done."

I really suspect it was Shinn's lack of experience on the stage and his apparent inability to remember lyrics to key songs despite having ample time and opportunity. I believe CCP were all years ahead of him on stage. No question. And I think CPP realized that they needed Ed back if they didn't want anymore fuckups on tv or on stage.

This post has been edited by Drew: Nov 26 2020, 10:54 pm

[Drew]

Now all this being said, that is not to say that CCP didn't have their faults. I think Chris Shinn is more than fair when he says what he does in this interview. Start around forty minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7LP3f1iRfk

They leave him out of certain business decisions. They get mad when he wants to take a little time off to unwind, but they do it whenever they want. Just a bunch of little things that Chris refers to as "petty" and "sociopath." They take down his album from their site and pretend it doesn't exist, etc.

CCP may be divas, but this doesn't take away from what I think are justified views about Chris Shinn's work on stage on in a tv studio that is not up to task.

This post has been edited by Drew: Nov 26 2020, 11:01 pm

[alexou]

Sure.. these flaws are too big to not consider them. Work ethic not being on par is an issue here spot on. That was his part of the job that he didn't deliver. But again it's a group thing and I'll smash the ball back to CT. It took until Ed was back to get himself a lead guitarist that makes sense, and Ed probably put his fist on the table to bring Loy. Pat shined during Shinn's presence and got muted again after. I also think Gracey was toned a bit down when Ed came back. CT is not a lead guitarist, and having just one guitar sometimes hurt them to a certain extent also.

I didn't like the overuse of backing tracks when they toured circa end 2014-15. CT had also 20 years to learn a proper ending to songs like TBD and Shit Towne. He never was able. Some solos of rattlesnake are horrendous. So able to create a riff or a song is one thing, and CT is good at it, but it's also important to add depth to songs, and from V and on it's not there, and when it is it's often with the use of keyboards. Shared responsibility there. Look at what Hennesey did to TGF...got these riff to another level with his additions. CT? Decent simple work in Natural born killers and By design, and cheesy predictable stuff in TWAIT and even Sirens Call, where he extended the solo in concert not for the good. Imagine what Hennesey could have done with those.

Really, Shinn can't be taken the sole responsible for this downfall. It was stated here a couple of weeks ago that he smelled that kind of crappy environment with Hynes and all.