Just a question.... Options

[Bremang]

I find it puzzling that Chad Gracey would have a problem with the plexiglass, yet be fine with another drummer playing his parts at the same time. Totally understand why it was done while Chad had an injured shoulder but to continue on when Chad is back at 100%? Strange.

Also the fact tat Robin Diaz can learn 20+ songs in a couple of months yet the band can't find the time to pull out a few tracks from the vault to perform is a mockery of what is it to be a band. Sounds like Live's new 'members' are more competent than their counterparts.

Live know what they're doing. Least amount of work for the most amount of money. It all makes sense. Robin and Zak are hired to make life easier for the band, doing the heavy lifting in the studio and on stage. Live created a set list based on metrics, playing the most popular playlist to the widest audience. Chad never had a problem with the plexiglass, he just wanted people to think he was mad at Ed.

[promiseIma Livefan]

Have you forgotten about Michael Railton? He toured from 1999 - 2002 and received writing credits on 2 Live albums (TDTH and V). Would you consider that Live 2.0? In my opinion it wasn't version 2.0 - it's not uncommon for bands to receive outside contributions during the writing or recording process, be it from a producer or another musican.

Don't forget that for The Turn, the band had Jerry Harrison providing substantial input, Bruce Wallace writing some lyrics and Jerry's daughter on backing vocals too.
You would never have heard of CCP if they had remained that way. How many bands without a singer have got a record deal, sold 20 million albums, toured the world, still making music after 30+ years? Yeah, not many.

As I stated I do not care what they call themselves. The question was why do the same people who are ok with this lineup, and others in the past, did not want to consider The Turn a Live album? If the Gracious Few wanted to keep the name Live I would not have cared either. If they decide now to replace Gracy with the mechanical drummer from Chucky Cheese (ye, I’m old) and add Snoop Dog as backup vocals and still call themselves Live, I wouldn’t care. My point was so many people were caught up in the name and not the music. And The Turn was the best “Live” album we had received in a long time.

[Bob]

I'm curious: For hardcore fans of other bands, what do they do differently that Live doesn't do? Let's use the Counting Crows as an example, since they've been around almost as long as Live has, and they're currently touring together. What about Pearl Jam? Candlebox? I'd love examples just for reference.

I guess I don't know what I'm missing. I am seeing PJ this summer for the first time ever (though I've been a "fan" since Ten, but haven't liked anything after Vitalogy), and I have seen Candlebox perform many times and can say that they play their asses off and really try to be present with the audience, which I think is part of what bothers me about present-day Live.

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with other bands on the minutiae of their inner workings, so I can't answer this, but I'm very curious.

I too wonder if "The Turn" would have been a Gracious Few album, if we'd even be having this conversation. They released an album and toured together for awhile and no one on this board thought anything negative of it. Was that simply because it wasn't "Live" that they got a pass? Does a name matter that much to some? I too am in the camp of believing The Turn was the Best Live album we've gotten in a long time.

As far as Gracey goes being being the plexiglass, that was happening even when Live was playing on larger stages; that wasn't just an intimate thing. I think Ed was being petty on that one. They all use in-ear monitors. Ed could have kept them in the entire time and been none the wiser to how loud the drums were, or had the drums lowered in his mix if it was really a problem. If you have a dedicated sound engineer on the mix, you can tweak it to your liking instantly. That's also what soundcheck is for. If you're concerned about not being able to hear the crowd, you aim a mic out there. There are solutions to these issues. Thankfully, at least for now, those days are gone.

My biggest issue with the plexiglass days was that you couldn't hear it when CG was using his lighter sticks on songs like LC. The mix never increased his mics, so you couldn't hear much.

I don't mind Zak on guitar because he's adding a missing layer to the rhythm that Ed (or Railton or Adam; take your pick) used to add to really thicken the sound. He's also a damn good player. He's also had years to perfect his playing since he was with Ed on the road for months playing all of TC every night.

Regarding Robin on drums, I'd be fine with him being up there (mmm... less angry, maybe) if he was using more of a percussion-based setup instead of a full drumset that happens to have timbales on it. He doesn't need to be playing along with Gracey all the time. That's what drives me crazy, because it's always a smidge off and sounds like a nasty echo, and, let's face it, he's no Gracey.

[Voodoo Lady]

I'm curious: For hardcore fans of other bands, what do they do differently that Live doesn't do? Let's use the Counting Crows as an example, since they've been around almost as long as Live has, and they're currently touring together. What about Pearl Jam? Candlebox? I'd love examples just for reference.

I guess I don't know what I'm missing. I am seeing PJ this summer for the first time ever (though I've been a "fan" since Ten, but haven't liked anything after Vitalogy), and I have seen Candlebox perform many times and can say that they play their asses off and really try to be present with the audience, which I think is part of what bothers me about present-day Live.

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with other bands on the minutiae of their inner workings, so I can't answer this, but I'm very curious.

I've been a hardcore Motley Crue fan since 1983. I know in comparison to Live, you can say that Motley is a much "bigger band", but I compare them to Live in a lot of ways because they've had periods of suckage with bad albums and times where they hated each other and broke up, etc. They were approached in 2004 by a promoter to get it together and reunite for the fans, because the fans really wanted it. In fact, the whole thing was made into a documentary for VH1. Upon reuniting, in 2005, they released Red, White, and Crue, a greatest hits album with two new songs and a cover. The two new songs were really, really good in comparison to where they had left off. They had help writing the music too, from Nikki's future Sixx AM buddies. They also did videos for the songs and had them out before they kicked off their reunion tour. The tour!! OMG! It was amazing. They toured by themselves in 2005 "Red White and Crue-Better Live Than Dead" tour. I saw them in Dallas at a mid-sized venue. They played 20 songs in addition to guitar, bass, and drum solos. I didn't think the show was ever going to end. They absolutely blew the roof off the joint. Of course they played their greatest hits, but they also played stuff that only hardcore fans would know (like "Glitter"). Later, in subsequent tours, they would use social media to ask the fans in the cities they were in/night of what song they wanted to hear and they would switch it up. As a member of the fan club, you could get upgraded tickets.--I never could afford a meet and greet, which sucked, but I was able to get VIP tickets which included special parking, early entrance, floor seats, and goodies like a blanket, water bottle, and tote bag. As a fan, I just always felt really appreciated. They went on to do other things after 2005... Saints of Los Angeles Album in 2008, other tours, etc. and they are retired now. But they've made me proud to be a fan.

I'm also a hardcore fan of Tesla. They'll go out on the road with other big names like Def Leppard but then they will do a tour by themselves in smaller venues for their fans. I saw them last March here. Great show based on their 30th anniversary, so they showed a lot of old pictures on screens behind them and used a lot of other visuals along with their songs. Jeff Keith's voice is shot (he sounds better in person than YouTube vids, I can attest), but I don't mind. I just appreciate them being together. They also do a lot of touching base with the fans with social media and I dunno, I just feel the love from them. I don't get that feeling from Live although I absolutely love them and they are probably my favorite band. I'm sorry... you don't have to agree with me as I know I am a more feel-y, emotional person than most. But if Live had done a headlining tour and some new music shortly after their reunion, things wouldn't be so disappointing.

[meltdown5]

I'm curious: For hardcore fans of other bands, what do they do differently that Live doesn't do? Let's use the Counting Crows as an example, since they've been around almost as long as Live has, and they're currently touring together. What about Pearl Jam? Candlebox? I'd love examples just for reference.

I guess I don't know what I'm missing. I am seeing PJ this summer for the first time ever (though I've been a "fan" since Ten, but haven't liked anything after Vitalogy), and I have seen Candlebox perform many times and can say that they play their asses off and really try to be present with the audience, which I think is part of what bothers me about present-day Live.

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with other bands on the minutiae of their inner workings, so I can't answer this, but I'm very curious.

I too wonder if "The Turn" would have been a Gracious Few album, if we'd even be having this conversation. They released an album and toured together for awhile and no one on this board thought anything negative of it. Was that simply because it wasn't "Live" that they got a pass? Does a name matter that much to some? I too am in the camp of believing The Turn was the Best Live album we've gotten in a long time.

As far as Gracey goes being being the plexiglass, that was happening even when Live was playing on larger stages; that wasn't just an intimate thing. I think Ed was being petty on that one. They all use in-ear monitors. Ed could have kept them in the entire time and been none the wiser to how loud the drums were, or had the drums lowered in his mix if it was really a problem. If you have a dedicated sound engineer on the mix, you can tweak it to your liking instantly. That's also what soundcheck is for. If you're concerned about not being able to hear the crowd, you aim a mic out there. There are solutions to these issues. Thankfully, at least for now, those days are gone.

My biggest issue with the plexiglass days was that you couldn't hear it when CG was using his lighter sticks on songs like LC. The mix never increased his mics, so you couldn't hear much.

I don't mind Zak on guitar because he's adding a missing layer to the rhythm that Ed (or Railton or Adam; take your pick) used to add to really thicken the sound. He's also a damn good player. He's also had years to perfect his playing since he was with Ed on the road for months playing all of TC every night.

Regarding Robin on drums, I'd be fine with him being up there (mmm... less angry, maybe) if he was using more of a percussion-based setup instead of a full drumset that happens to have timbales on it. He doesn't need to be playing along with Gracey all the time. That's what drives me crazy, because it's always a smidge off and sounds like a nasty echo, and, let's face it, he's no Gracey.

I'm a die-hard Third Eye Blind fan and honestly compare every band I see to them because I think they are just the best - again - I am probably biased, though.

3EB has been around for 20 years - (with two original remaining members - a topic for another day) and after several lineup changes, the current iteration of the band has been together for about six years.

First of all, they do not use two drummers and don't need to. Secondly, they are very interactive with their fans. Stephan Jenkins is known to go on twitter and ask for fan song requests before shows. He also replies to fans and likes fan tweets often. I like that interaction a lot - and the same goes with the other 4 members of the band - very active on social media. Take it for what you want, but personally, I like interacting with my favorite artists and it draws me in closer as a fan.

Another thing is that they change up their setlists depending on what shows they are doing. For instance, in the fall, they did a tour of smallish venues - like 1,000-2,000 people and played a more varied setlist than they would, say, at a festival, where let's face it, most people are there for the hits. 3EB has even gone so far as to (in 2016) making up a different band name so that true fans would be able to see a once in a lifetime show in San Fransisco where they played only deep cuts. I have friends who journeyed 3,000+miles for it. Again, they change up their set lists a lot and all the band members know all the songs. For example, last year, the guitarist broke his hand and his guitar tech, who is also in the band Cartel, filled in for him spur of the moment because they were still on tour. He knew all the songs, so there's no excuse that the Live boys shouldn't change up their setlist or know the songs that they actually wrote.

3EB also doesn't try to screw over their fans by charging ridiculous amounts for t-shirts or tickets. I know Live's t shirts are going for $40, while you can get a 3EB shirt at a show for $25 and often when they have some left they put them on their website for cheaper. As far as tickets go, at the venue where Live is coming in my city you have to buy a $500 VIP package (Where you meet CC and not even Live) to get in the front row since there's no GA pit at this venue. Second row isn't much cheaper at $300+. 3EB did a 20th anniversary tour last year at a lot of the same venues that Live/CC is stopping at and at most of them you could get a GA pit ticket or a ticket in the first 10 rows if it was seated for less than $100 - including fees. Or for $150 you could watch soundcheck AND get a ticket.

All of these above reasons are just a bit of why 3EB is my favorite band (along with meeting some of my best friends in the world). I loved Live when I was in high school and college, but I think over the years I have outgrown them, which is sad. Live helped me get through my parents divorce and so many other things one goes through as a teenager and they will always have a special place in my heart. But, I agree with a lot of people on this board that this tour seems to be a money grabber and nothing more. I really hope that's not the case and I will still be seeing them this year (although not from a $500 seat!).

[Bob]

They also do a lot of touching base with the fans with social media and I dunno, I just feel the love from them. I don't get that feeling from Live although I absolutely love them and they are probably my favorite band. I'm sorry... you don't have to agree with me as I know I am a more feel-y, emotional person than most. But if Live had done a headlining tour and some new music shortly after their reunion, things wouldn't be so disappointing.

I completely agree with everything you've said. Short of a few social media posts with pics from the show and where they're going next, plus super bland interviews that are softball questions about where Live is at these days, they don't interact with fans, but then again, they never really have, that I can remember.

The biggest thing I keep going back to is the passion in their music, both in the studio and on the stage. It's in their name, for goodness sake. I just wanted to see if there were examples of other bands that really take fans to heart when they're doing what they're doing. After all, it's the fans that got them there in the first place.

I also miss their fan club. That couldn't have cost much to keep going, but it was another way to interact with the fans and give them something a little extra. I loved the Holiday Gifts and have almost all of them, but eventually it was reduced to a PDF and then nothing. I wish those Holiday Gifts would make a return, but even if they did, part of me thinks they'd be thrown together, so they'd be kinda worthless.

[Heather]

I completely agree with everything you've said. Short of a few social media posts with pics from the show and where they're going next, plus super bland interviews that are softball questions about where Live is at these days, they don't interact with fans, but then again, they never really have, that I can remember.

The biggest thing I keep going back to is the passion in their music, both in the studio and on the stage. It's in their name, for goodness sake. I just wanted to see if there were examples of other bands that really take fans to heart when they're doing what they're doing. After all, it's the fans that got them there in the first place.

I also miss their fan club. That couldn't have cost much to keep going, but it was another way to interact with the fans and give them something a little extra. I loved the Holiday Gifts and have almost all of them, but eventually it was reduced to a PDF and then nothing. I wish those Holiday Gifts would make a return, but even if they did, part of me thinks they'd be thrown together, so they'd be kinda worthless.

If nothing else a fan club would be nice for buying vip tickets or chances for meet and greets. In this day and age what band doesn't have that? I guess only bands that don't headline in their own country. Can't imagine there are many other bands like that.

[Voodoo Lady]

First of all, they do not use two drummers and don't need to. Secondly, they are very interactive with their fans. Stephan Jenkins is known to go on twitter and ask for fan song requests before shows. He also replies to fans and likes fan tweets often. I like that interaction a lot - and the same goes with the other 4 members of the band - very active on social media. Take it for what you want, but personally, I like interacting with my favorite artists and it draws me in closer as a fan.

I whole heartedly agree. I will give Ed some credit. He interacts a little bit with fans. He used to interact more so when he was solo. But if he or Chad T. would do a spur of the moment Q & A session on Twitter with the fans, it would definitely draw us in.

All of these above reasons are just a bit of why 3EB is my favorite band (along with meeting some of my best friends in the world).

I’ve met life-long friends through bands as well, which is all the more reason why a band’s social media is so important. It is a spring board for us to meet each other from across the miles.

Third Eye Blind is doing a lot of cool things. Thanks for sharing.

[Bremang]

As I stated I do not care what they call themselves. The question was why do the same people who are ok with this lineup, and others in the past, did not want to consider The Turn a Live album? If the Gracious Few wanted to keep the name Live I would not have cared either. If they decide now to replace Gracy with the mechanical drummer from Chucky Cheese (ye, I'm old) and add Snoop Dog as backup vocals and still call themselves Live, I wouldn't care. My point was so many people were caught up in the name and not the music. And The Turn was the best "Live" album we had received in a long time.

They didn't call it Live because Ed wasn't in the band

[Bremang]

3EB has been around for 20 years - (with two original remaining members - a topic for another day) and after several lineup changes, the current iteration of the band has been together for about six years.

3eb have plenty of crap in their history. Stephen Jenkins called Live a bunch of pussies in the 90s.Then Stephen goes and screws over Kevin Cadogen, the guy who wrote the best shit. Once Kev left in 2000, the music took a major dive. All those amazing demos in the 90s were suddenly off limits. Sad to see Alright Caroline recording surface the way it did, such an injustice, like if Ed K solo re-recorded b-sides in 2019 and the original b-sides were never heard. Where is URSA minor? Why did 3EB retire but actually never retire?

3EB has even gone so far as to (in 2016) making up a different band name so that true fans would be able to see a once in a lifetime show in San Fransisco where they played only deep cuts.

What was the name of the band?

[meltdown5]

3eb have plenty of crap in their history. Stephen Jenkins called Live a bunch of pussies in the 90s.Then Stephen goes and screws over Kevin Cadogen, the guy who wrote the best shit. Once Kev left in 2000, the music took a major dive. All those amazing demos in the 90s were suddenly off limits. Sad to see Alright Caroline recording surface the way it did, such an injustice, like if Ed K solo re-recorded b-sides in 2019 and the original b-sides were never heard. Where is URSA minor? Why did 3EB retire but actually never retire?

What was the name of the band?

If you like Kevin which of course I know he is super talented, you should follow his band XEB - which is him, Arion and Tony, ex-members of 3EB, with Tony on vocals. You can have your opinions on it and I can have mine, as I am fully aware of everything (and more) that you posted above. The five current members of the band are super talented as well and also super freaking cool. I actually have the demo of Alright Caroline and like both that and the new one. I'm impressed that you've heard of that song!

[Gruno]

Reminds me of when Ed would put Gracy in a glass cage. Just seems Ed is going out of his way to disrespect him.

Really reaching here, aren't you?

As far as Gracey goes being being the plexiglass, that was happening even when Live was playing on larger stages; that wasn't just an intimate thing. I think Ed was being petty on that one. They all use in-ear monitors. Ed could have kept them in the entire time and been none the wiser to how loud the drums were, or had the drums lowered in his mix if it was really a problem. If you have a dedicated sound engineer on the mix, you can tweak it to your liking instantly. That's also what soundcheck is for. If you're concerned about not being able to hear the crowd, you aim a mic out there. There are solutions to these issues. Thankfully, at least for now, those days are gone.

My biggest issue with the plexiglass days was that you couldn't hear it when CG was using his lighter sticks on songs like LC. The mix never increased his mics, so you couldn't hear much.

Plexiglass barriers are used to prevent mic bleed. The microphones from the front of the stage are pointed towards the performers to sing lead and backing vocals. Those mics are also pointing towards the back of the stage. Drums (mainly the cymbals) are a huge problem and are one of the main instruments that sound engineers have problems with because of mic bleed.

DEFINITION

Spill (also known as bleed and leakage) is the occurrence in sound recording (particularly in close miking) and live sound mixing whereby sound is picked up by a microphone from a source other than that which is intended. Spill is usually seen as a problem, and various steps are taken to avoid it or reduce it.

Avoiding spill

Using acoustic barriers (known as gobos); for live sound, plexiglass screens are sometimes used for drums and brass.

Yes, in-ear monitors help, but they can also hinder when mic bleed is persistent. Imagine the stage set up. Now, picture Ed singing into his mic while it's on the mic stand. Once he moves just off center, away from the mic, here comes a cymbal crash from Gracey, because the drums are directly behind Ed. Now, that crash is picked up by Ed's microphone, which is fed into his in-ear monitors. BOOM! That's what it sounds like.

Sometimes microphones used on stage are too good and pick up too much. Why don't they use plex now? Could be they got different mics that work in a way where they do not need plex. Also, sometimes plex is used for entire tours because the mix is already "dialed in", and using plex only in certain venues means the sound engineers need to go back and forth with sound levels/programming. This also creates a different sound mix for the band. Bands appreciate consistency.

As a side note: many bands use plex for live appearances. A friend of mine is currently drum teching for Ted Nugent and that drummer has a plex set up. No big deal.

[Costakoui]

I'm a die-hard Third Eye Blind fan and honestly compare every band I see to them because I think they are just the best - again - I am probably biased, though.

It is good that you have a favorite band. However, 3EB has nothing to do with Live music; 3EB songs, to my ears, are very generic and say absolutely nothing to me. Love Lounge is better that 3EB's best songs.

[Possum Kingdom]

Live reunites with Ed and says they are going to write as a band again.

Live releases Love Lounge to the world and writing credits are Ed and Zak as the writers and CT got to fiddle on the knobs.

So instead of Live going back to the point in their career when they could write songs, they jump right back into the downslide where everything went off the rails.

I think we already know how this story ends.

Face melter? This is getting silly. Remember when CG made fun of Ed's "rock" album?



Essentially Ed gets to write his new solo album in the studio that CCP built. Checkmate!

[promiseIma Livefan]

Really reaching here, aren't you?
Plexiglass barriers are used to prevent mic bleed. The microphones from the front of the stage are pointed towards the performers to sing lead and backing vocals. Those mics are also pointing towards the back of the stage. Drums (mainly the cymbals) are a huge problem and are one of the main instruments that sound engineers have problems with because of mic bleed.

DEFINITION
Yes, in-ear monitors help, but they can also hinder when mic bleed is persistent. Imagine the stage set up. Now, picture Ed singing into his mic while it's on the mic stand. Once he moves just off center, away from the mic, here comes a cymbal crash from Gracey, because the drums are directly behind Ed. Now, that crash is picked up by Ed's microphone, which is fed into his in-ear monitors. BOOM! That's what it sounds like.

Sometimes microphones used on stage are too good and pick up too much. Why don't they use plex now? Could be they got different mics that work in a way where they do not need plex. Also, sometimes plex is used for entire tours because the mix is already "dialed in", and using plex only in certain venues means the sound engineers need to go back and forth with sound levels/programming. This also creates a different sound mix for the band. Bands appreciate consistency.

As a side note: many bands use plex for live appearances. A friend of mine is currently drum teching for Ted Nugent and that drummer has a plex set up. No big deal.

My point of starting this thread has nothing to do with plexiglass. I was responding to someone's else's point. Do not care either way....but the optics of ED's antics over the years, the fans not knowing everything, did seem disrespectful to his band mates... even if that really wasn't the case. Gracey himself said, after Ed was gone, no more plexi glass. But again I do not care but thank you oh so much for educating me on this useless subject.