You're smoking something, What is it? Options

[World Dreamer]

Not true. Ed was the driving force behind Throwing Copper and that went pretty well, didn't it?

And don't argue this - just read the liner notes: All lyrics written by Ed Kowalczyk

This thread has now reached ridiculous. Please close it.

[Arizona_Skies]

Music is not only lyrics. I think the 3 members will take issue to that statement you posted.

Obviously, music isn't only lyrics (any 3rd grader knows that). I'm not discounting the contributions of CCP. But, let's use Throwing Copper as an example: did Chad Gracey contribute as much as Ed did? The obvious answer is no. Don't believe me? Read the ASCAP credits.

So, did anyone contribute more than Ed? Since he was the principal songwriter, the answer is no. Is it then fair to say that Ed was the driving force of Throwing Copper? Yes.

Like it or not, Ed was the driving force of Live's biggest album.

And, since he was the driving force of their biggest album, can we say that he was the driving force of the band? Of course.

Stop trying to rewrite history.

This post has been edited by Arizona_Skies: Jan 17 2012, 6:47 pm

[mattyeagles]

People on this board are very quick to discredit everything Ed did pre-V and even more quick to mention that he was the main force behind the music on the mediocre albums. This has been going on for years and is not going to change around here. Ed may to blame for the lack of quality for the past few albums but he is just as responsible for the genius of the first 4. The guy just lost his touch and that was demonstrated in Alive as well. The first 4 albums would not have been made without Ed and there is no way around it. Chad has even admitted this..Ed came to the band with ghost, gas head, etc.

This is not discrediting the role of the members but is just a fact, whether or not people choose to ignore it to sike themslves up for the new live. Only CCP will actually know the whole point of rerecording old live songs but in my opinion, it is one last attempt of recapturing the magic of Live. This is their right, I suppose, even though I and some other people might not agree with it. It just seems silly to me to record a hit song from 1995 and proclaim, "Live is back!"

[OutToDry]

...to AS.....what the fuck are you trying to prove here? Who's rewriting history? Your opinion is not based in facts. I'd have to say TC (MJ, SS) were a collaboration of 25% each making Live 100% viable as the phenonmenon it was.....all a well oiled machine. I understand your passion to prop Ed up, but we're not going to agree. I never would take away Ed's amazing efforts from band inception to 2000......never ever said that.

Here are some interesting insights on these records [all of em] - (you only joined in september this past year). Not sure if you saw this posted here and on FB:

[quote]Mental Jewelry 1990 to 1992

On a cold winters day in Chad Gracey's garage, I sat strumming my guitar next to our kerosene heater. The chords were simple and repetitive but they resonated with me. Ed joined me and asked that I continue the pattern. After about an hour, we had birthed a song. It was called "Operation Spirit." The lyrics, as most on this album, were inspired by J Krishnamurti, a philosophical and spiritual teacher born in India. Ed was as curious as any person I had ever know about God and he would find all of these incredible authors. These early songs would showcase our surprising ability to harness songwriting, performance and the spiritual quest of my young friend. The bass and drums propel this album under the production guidance of musical mentor, Jerry Harrison (Modern Lover's, Talking Heads). At the age of 18, my friends and I introduced ourselves to the world with this album, recorded and mixed in Milwaukee, WI. Released on RadioActive/MCA December 31, 1991[/quote]

[quote]Throwing Copper 1993 to 1996

After Mental Jewelry, our lives had totally changed. We managed to have a #1 hit with "Operation Spirit" and a huge touring cycle supporting Peter Gabriel, Ramones, PIL and BAD. The pressure to make an album that lived up to MJ was massive. Ed & I worked tirelessly writing for the album. The band & our sound had grown up on the road and the new aggression suited us well. The earliest songs were road tested while still touring for MJ, where the band could showcase its musical prowess and dynamic range. We recorded in Canon Falls, MN and nearly broke up over our first publishing fight. Somehow we managed to pull through. Throwing Copper, after being released on April 26, 1994, it reached Billboards #1 on May 6, 1995
[/quote]

[quote]secret samadhi 1997 to 1998

With TC under our belts, it was time for real rock n roll excess! No party would be missed, no stripper would go without champaign and we were literally, as high as we could get. We wrote the songs in a hodgepodge of demos and finally went to Jamaica to solidify our efforts. Ed's lyrics had changed radically as did the bands sound. We had gone over the top with heavy guitars, hard drum beats and furious melodies. "Lakini's Juice" had been on a cassette demo of mine for almost a year and thankfully, Ed kept reminding me to play it. Just like "Selling The Drama" and "Operation Spirit" before it, Lakini's went straight to #1. This marked the third consecutive debut single where I had delivered the music to Live. The album, recorded and mixed in NYC, debuted at #1 on Billboard's album chart on February 18, 1997
[/quote]

[quote]Distance To Here 1998 to 2000

The non-stop touring was beginning to take a toll on our relationships. Gracey had gotten divorced and we all seemed more distant than in year prior. The Distance To Here saw us return to Jerry Harrison as producer as we tried to get our brains around a new band line-up with Chris Thorn joining on guitar. Ed's songwriting had evolved and he was much more of a singer-songwriter at this point. His talents were showcased on songs like "Face & Ghost" & the hypnotic music-scape of "The Distance." We were at the beginning of a new phase, where many of the songs were written as whole pieces and presented to the band. Our first international #1 single, "They Stood Up For Love" would be the last substantial song he and I would pen together. The album, recorded in Marin County, CA debuted at #4 in the US and #1 in Canada, Belgium and Australia on October 5, 1999
[/quote]

[quote]v 2000 to 2002

On a short break between legs of a US tour, Ed suggested we demo new material with our friend, guitarist & producer Alain Johannes. In a few short weeks, we had assembled "Ecstatic Fanatic" and presented it to MCA records. After a year long delay due to label politics, MCA release the album on September 18, 2001. Despite the delays and the 9/11 terror attacks, the album debuted at #22 US and #1 in Holland, Australia, Norway and New Zealand
[/quote]

[quote]Birds of Prey 2003 to 2005

After the bearing the political climate of post 9/11, I wanted to make a record that reflected our struggle. I sent Ed a bunch of demos of songs I had been working on. Ed had already been hard at work writing and did not include the band in the process. Thankfully, he called to suggest a band session in Nashville where I got to contribute to a band jam titled, "Like I Do" and to my surprise, a course rocker called "Lighthouse." Ed shined, as new father will, on the albums lead single "Heaven." This wasn't exactly my "flavor" of rock n roll but I couldn't deny the song was catchy as 'all get out' and landed us our first solid radio single in a long time. I argued with the label about the album cover but my opinion mattered less these days. I learned a ton about making "old school" albums from producer Jim Wirt, recording in the thread bare, 4th St Studio's in Santa Monica. The album was released May 20, 2003, debuting at #28 US[/quote]

[quote]Songs From Black Mountain 2006 to 2009

This album should have been the beginning of Ed's solo career in my opinion. I had no idea how to contribute to the material but don't mistake that for not trying. I really did try but this style of material wasn't right for CG, PD and I to play on. I don't blame Ed for wanting something new. Dylan had a new band almost every album. Then again, Dylan was only ever in one band and that was well after he'd established his career. The album cover says it all and is my least favorite photo on myself. Regardless, my favorite song on this album is "Wings". SFBM was released on June 6, 2006.
[/quote]

taken from this post: http://www.fansoflive.com/forums/index.php...3&hl=publishing

This post has been edited by OutToDry: Jan 17 2012, 7:32 pm

[Arizona_Skies]

The first 4 albums would not have been made without Ed and there is no way around it. Chad has even admitted this.

Amen brother.

[OutToDry]

People on this board are very quick to discredit everything Ed did pre-V and even more quick to mention that he was the main force behind the music on the mediocre albums. This has been going on for years and is not going to change around here. Ed may to blame for the lack of quality for the past few albums but he is just as responsible for the genius of the first 4. The guy just lost his touch and that was demonstrated in Alive as well. The first 4 albums would not have been made without Ed and there is no way around it. Chad has even admitted this..Ed came to the band with ghost, gas head, etc.

This is not discrediting the role of the members but is just a fact, whether or not people choose to ignore it to sike themslves up for the new live. Only CCP will actually know the whole point of rerecording old live songs but in my opinion, it is one last attempt of recapturing the magic of Live. This is their right, I suppose, even though I and some other people might not agree with it. It just seems silly to me to record a hit song from 1995 and proclaim, "Live is back!"

i hear what you're saying but they have recorded NEW songs.

[OutToDry]

Amen brother.

who is saying that without Ed they'd be the same? You are moving the goalposts. Without the 4 of them and what they created collectively.....nothing.

[Arizona_Skies]

Without the 4 of them and what they created collectively.....nothing.

Completely agree.

This post has been edited by Arizona_Skies: Jan 17 2012, 7:51 pm

[Live4Life]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Bremang]

C'mon, the singer/songwriter is usually the most valuable player.

Anyone who writes songs knows that writing incredible lyrics and the principal melodies are a real gift, and the main proponent of a band. Sure CCP have a tremendous gift, and they are in-disposable. But even with all 4 of them being irreplaceable in the 90's, Ed still did more than 25% by being the songwriter, and tailoring his incredibly unique image and stage presence that was identifiable worldwide. All eyes were on him and he delivered. Maybe CCP could have been more than 25% each, and the band would probably still have been great, but they just didn't have the chance. They all had a good thing going. Now it seems they are 25% each, and it should be interesting.

[Pokey]

So who is to say that with another talented singer and song writer they won't capture amazing stuff? I guarantee you we would not be having this conversation if they were not calling this band Live. If this was something else like TGF you'd all be hanging with baited breath to see what they come up with. Yes they created magic with Ed on the first 4 albums, I think they creates magic with Kevin too. So maybe they will do it again with Chris. Acting as if they can't tie their own shoe laces without Ed is such a spit in the face. Disgusting.
Everyone is so caught up on the name, cherish the past but move on. This is an entirely different beast now.

People have said that without Ed there is no Live, but they would fully support CCP starting another new band. Just think of this like that new band then. This is all caused over sentimentality. You don't want the legacy of Live touched. At very first I felt the same, live were only those 4 guys. Then I thought "hang on, Live ran themselves into the ground for 3 albums, this is a chance to reinvent".
To me Live's legacy and credibility is already shot to pieces by the crap they made late in their careers. So this is a fresh start and a rebirth. If you can't wrap your head around it happening without Ed then that is YOUR problem. It's happening, quit bitching cos you're not gonna change anything and move on if you're so sure you'll hate it before you've heard it.

Ask yourself, would you support CCP starting another TGF like project with a singer? If the answer is yes then you obviously think they could be successful in making good music with them, want to be open and give it a chance, so why do you think that's so impossible if the new group is called Live? Photoshop the name out to be whatever you want it to be. If you have a problem with them playing Live songs then you better have a problem with Ed playing them too. But maybe like Nick you can't see past a voice.
If you answered No to supporting CCP on another TGF like adventure then there is no helping you, you're purely not a fan of theirs.

[themaestro]

C'mon, the singer/songwriter is usually the most valuable player.

Anyone who writes songs knows that writing incredible lyrics and the principal melodies are a real gift, and the main proponent of a band. Sure CCP have a tremendous gift, and they are in-disposable. But even with all 4 of them being irreplaceable in the 90's, Ed still did more than 25% by being the songwriter, and tailoring his incredibly unique image and stage presence that was identifiable worldwide. All eyes were on him and he delivered. Maybe CCP could have been more than 25% each, and the band would probably still have been great, but they just didn't have the chance. They all had a good thing going. Now it seems they are 25% each, and it should be interesting.

Put Ed out front all you want. He was the symbol of Live but not the driving force. The driving force was Live itself, the combination of all 4. The collective energy that they all received from the group, that gave them the confidence, the inspiration, the drive, the wherewithal to create those special albums. Ed was given a tremendous platform to head that band. He certainly had the vocal ability and lyrical ability but it never would have come to fruition without that band dynamic. Once he drove a wedge in that dynamic, look how things turned out. He was no longer influenced by the others around him and the collective energy of Live. He's just not capable on his own of creating what they did together. The driving force was Live, not Ed.

[OutToDry]

guess it's fair to revisit this......

http://www.faqs.org/copyright/love-shines-...-still-aroused/

there are a few more pages out there but I can't seem to locate the one which has a bunch more together

[themaestro]

Wow, that's a lot of work. Do I need to do an in-depth analysis of every band's history?

If you are going to throw around elementary statements like you did, then yes. Understanding a little more about what contributed to Live's early sound should give you a better understanding that Ed was not the driving force. Once he became the driving force we got BOP and SFBM. How'd that work out?

[OutToDry]

Put Ed out front all you want. He was the symbol of Live but not the driving force. The driving force was Live itself, the combination of all 4. The collective energy that they all received from the group, that gave them the confidence, the inspiration, the drive, the wherewithal to create those special albums. Ed was given a tremendous platform to head that band. He certainly had the vocal ability and lyrical ability but it never would have come to fruition without that band dynamic. Once he drove a wedge in that dynamic, look how things turned out. He was no longer influenced by the others around him and the collective energy of Live. He's just not capable on his own of creating what they did together. The driving force was Live, not Ed.

YES YES YES!!!! FUCKIN A YES