Birds of Pray, What do you think of it anno 2010? Options

[SecretInsomnia]

Live fans on these board often say that Live didnt make anything goo after TDTH.
V, BoP and SFBM are regarded as 'Live going downhill'. Although I can enjoy some parts of each of those 3 albums, BoP is (for me) still an album that I can listen very often and to which I always look back to with joy for some reason. (must also have to do with the period it was released, it had some quite hopefull and upflifting energy for me in spring/summer 2003).

Ofcourse not all on the album is as creative as in the 90ies, certainly not. But for me it's for some reason still a really "Live" album and for some part breathes the atmosphere that I think about when I think of Live in general. I don't really have that with "rapping and experimental V" or "too much Ed focussed SFBM" (although, as I said, they had their "Live" moments as well).

Heaven is still (commercial sounding or not) a very nice song. Like I do is for me up with Live's best work. And Lighthouse touches me again each time I listen to it. I really like Sanctity of Dreams (and yes I know most don't), as it just grabs you from beginning to the end. Out to Dry is POP, but not pop like most of Alive, for example.

Listening to SoD, I also notice that back then, Ed still wrote about different topics on the album. Compare for example topics in: SoD, Heaven, River Town and Out to Dry.
SFBM had not much variety in topics, and on Alive it seemed to be gone completely.

What do you think about Birds of Pray, now 7,5 years after its release? For me it's not a bad album at all, although I know it's not their best work ever.

This post has been edited by SecretInsomnia: Dec 8 2010, 6:51 pm

[Sonic Tonic]

I never hated it and actually I've been going back to it lately. There was something special and hopeful about that album for me. Maybe it had to do with 2002 being one of the worst years of my life and in 2003 things were turning around for me and with the album coming out it was just a positive time.

[+Ed+]

7,5 years

shoosh

Just put on Lighthouse everyone. This was the last hope for a;ll Live fans in terms of guitar music. The funky distorted ticking of it during the second verse every single time drives me nuts and sends shivers down my spine.

Anyway, do not ask me. I have always been a blind Live fanboy and I enjoy every single song they have ever done as a band.

I love BoP

[Wambangalang]

i dig it, it was my re-introduction to the band, the first being TDTH and somehow V flew under my radar. Loved it then. Can see why it was hated now. Still fond of most of it, bar a handful of songs. At least it was loud unlike sfbm

[TheBeacon]

I always liked BOP for the most part. There's a few that were questionable but it did bring back a bit of the LIVE I fell for during the TDTH era and it gave me hope for the future of the band. Even though it wasen't my favorite song I was happy to see LIVE get some mainstream recognition from Heaven then too. I still say if they would have released Like I Do to rock formats and the longer version of She that isnt even on the album as the next singles instead of Run Away that could have built some good momentum for the band again but as usual their choice of singles were head scratching. Out To Dry is still one of my fav songs from the band.
I liked parts of V as well but for some reason never consider that record an official album in my own head so BOP was kinda the follow up to TDTH for me and unfortunately the last as I still to this day try to forget SBFM!

[Pokey]

I never hated BOP, it's certainly nowhere near the masterpieces that the first 4 albums were, and it didn't have that emotional attatchment to it that V had for me, but it had some really good songs on it and nothing that I absolutely hated like on SFBM for instance.

I was super excited when it came out and initially really enjoyed the album, as time went on quite a few of the songs lost their initial shine and now I can't remember the last time i listend to the album from start to finish, a long time ago. Like I Do and Lighthouse are the 2 stand out songs that I still adore. They had a little bit of balls to them and Ed sng his heart out on them, not a coincidence I think that they're the albums that had writing credited to not just Ed.
She was a song that really grew on me, i thought nothing of it for a long time before the extended version came out online and I heard that which was the first time I'd listend to any version of the song in about a year and I realised i really enjoyed it.
I have a real soft spot for Every Time I see Your Face ... I don't mind Live going pop a little bit with a song here and a song there, an entire shift to the genre like SFBM is not good. But the odd song is fine when done well and I think ETISYF is a great example of that, and to a lesser extend Out To Dry.

I'm not really a fan of Heaven, in the words of Morrissey, "it says nothing to me about my life". I felt like it wanted to be a bit of an epic like Dolphin's Cry, but I think it falls well short. Sancity of Dreams I listen to really rarely, but every now and again like a coupleof times a year I seem to for some reason have a real craving to hear it because I usually seem to forget it exists, once I hear it I'm satisfied but don't seem to listen to it again for a long time. I found Rivertown pretty boring, not bad, just blah. Sweet Release also does nothing for me as does Bring the people together. It's been said before it's an extremely poor attempt at another Stage-like song.
What are we fighting for is quite a nice song, again i tend to barely listen to it, but when i do i enjoy it. Life Marches On was wasted potential, it should have been much rawer and had more balls, it felt scaled back on the album.

That is my biggest complaint witht he album, how polished it sounds. It sounds horribly over produced, if only it were a little rougher around the edges. For lack of a better way of explaining, it sounds very computerised ... as in, all instruments recorded separatley and then copied and pasted together to form the song. Rather than it feeling like 4 guys were given instruments in a room and told to let go whilst someone just pressed the record button so that it was recorded on the fly. I know so many albums are recorded by doing individual instruments and then piecing it all together, but the good ones are done so this isn't noticable. With BOP I found it very artificial and noticable. SFBM was even more so again.

So to me BOP is an album with mostly waisted potential, not terrible, but not amazing. As the original post stated, I did like that it had a little variation in the song subjects ... Life Marches On, Rivertown, Lighthouse, Sanctity Of Dreams, Heaven, What Are We Fighting For .... they're not just songs about loving a girl or loving God, which is all Ed has become now. Each Live album before BOP had a much bigger variation in song subjects, but post BOP it became more and more bland.

[Sakhmet2]

I always liked BOP for the most part. There's a few that were questionable but it did bring back a bit of the LIVE I fell for during the TDTH era and it gave me hope for the future of the band. Even though it wasen't my favorite song I was happy to see LIVE get some mainstream recognition from Heaven then too. I still say if they would have released Like I Do to rock formats and the longer version of She that isnt even on the album as the next singles instead of Run Away that could have built some good momentum for the band again but as usual their choice of singles were head scratching. Out To Dry is still one of my fav songs from the band.

You've stated my feelings exactly.

I liked parts of V as well but for some reason never consider that record an official album in my own head so BOP was kinda the follow up to TDTH for me and unfortunately the last as I still to this day try to forget SBFM!

Exactly. I sort of feel that V was like a detour on the road, and when BOP came along I thought "Okay, we're back on track". But when SFBM came along I realized that maybe the destination had changed without my knowing it.

[Deku]

For me BOP is a decent album, with moments of shame and hints of brilliance. It was the third Live record I got, and I hadn't heard any of Live's material prior to TDTH so I could listen to the record objectively, take it for what it is, without yearning for what Live were before.

And I think that's why to this day I still like it. For most part it's full of straight-up rock songs, that capture some of the intensity of their earlier stuff (Like I Do, Lighthouse) but lack the complexity and intrigue associated with pre-naughties Live. There are some great melodies and riffs on the record, and I've found more of an appreciation for songs like She, Like I Do, Rivertown as I've got older. I still love Out To Dry though, but don't share Pokey's appreciation for Everytime I See Your Face. There are perhaps too many middle-of-the-road tracks like that that hold the album back a bit.

I definitely agree with Secret Insomnia & Pokey that Ed had more to say back when this was written, as opposed to SFBM/Alive. And if it was a song about a girl, it was done more inventively. For some reason I too feel this as a positive album. I remember listening to it on a family holiday in Italy. It kind of worked.

things I like: The outro lead guitar riff to Heaven, the foggy, siren-like guitar in the SOD verses, the pounding intensity in the last minute of Like I Do, the bridge in Lighthouse giving way to its soaring chorus and the uplifting sing-along that is Out To Dry

I could go into things I'm not so keen on, but I don't think BOP gets enough credit as it is. Sure, it's not amazing, and I don't listen to it that much. But when I do it's worth it.

[OutToDry]

BOP, meh....except for Lighthouse, Like I Do......and the little diddy called my username is decent too!

Live was pretty much sliding off the cliff by 2001

[LivesMeltdown]

I really enjoy Birds of Pray. Definitely the best of the last 3 albums. Depending on my mood, there are times I actually enjoy it more than Secret Samadhi and Mental Jewelry. Yep I said it

[OutToDry]

Surely youre joking right?

[LivesMeltdown]

Surely...I'm not and don't call me Shirley. RIP Leslie Nielsen

Again, it all depends on my mood. My top 2 albums are always The Distance to Here and Throwing Copper. My 2 least favorite albums are V and SFBM. The other 3 kinda alternate with me. Some days I like Mental Jewelry more. Some days I like Secret Samadhi more and yep, some days I like BOP more.

This post has been edited by LivesMeltdown: Dec 14 2010, 8:08 pm

[OutToDry]

I listened to Divided Mind Divided Planet tonight. Freaking amazing shit !!

[Hoodstock]

When I first put in BOP I loved it. I thought it was a great recovery from the V disaster. Then, the more I listened to it the less I liked it

Within about three weeks I really didn't listen to it anymore.

BOP is definately part of the decline.

[Hoodstock]

I listened to Divided Mind Divided Planet tonight. Freaking amazing shit !!

I like those tracks better than anything on MJ.