Thoughts on "Honest Man" and "Believe", One Song - Two Versions Options

[OutToDry]

well the real reason lyrics aside is the musical foundation of the song and why it proves the point of the cohesive unit that used to exist with the 4. the CT riff was the last bit of attempt to collaborate and the lyrics Ed put to it, epitomize the point of what CT mentioned today on FB. TGF was more than a side project, it was to reaffirm their worth in music. KM & SH addition made that song simply magical. At the point of Believe entering the setlist (me researching it due to my Live inactivity for a few years), Ed was out the door for the solo career, band performances were not looking good, on stage body language.

[jayda]

Seeing the lyrics of Believe written out - gag.

[+Ed+]

I can not say that Believe lyrics are soulless. I do think they mean hell of a lot to the author, maybe his new audience, but not the most of us. I remember how freaking amazed I was by the riff when the live recording of that one surfaced. At first it did even remind me of Audioslave (or so I thought).

[Pokey]

Made some changes to the Believe lyrics to be a bit more accurate to what the song is ... not that it improves it or anything. I think the best description here was its just a bunch of words ... it has no identity, doesn't really know what it means or is, it's hollow. But then again that is the product of lazy lyrics writing and just a dysfunctional band all around at the time:


As I wake up from the dream
Into is it out of seam (doesn't make sense, but I can't hear anything different either)
Scan the horizon
for some one to share this bread I found
It’s time to believe again
I've fallen to you my friend
If this is not the end, then drive until the point of no return
I blew up my TV set
A solid ball of disarray
They can smell right through my quiet all my........(no idea what he says here either)
It’s time to believe again
I've fallen to you my friend
If this is not the end, then drive until the point of no return
No return
No return
No return
It’s time to believe again
I've fallen to you my friend
If this is not the end, then drive until the point of no return
It’s time to believe again
I've fallen to you my friend
If this is not the end, then drive until the point of no return

[alexou]

this looks rushed and obviously without inspiration. It's impossible to get into that kind of lyrics.

[mfitz804]

Believe sounds forced. It sounds like a band wrote music the singer didn't especially like, and the singer wrote lyrics that the band didn't especially like. The lyrics and music do not mesh together at all.

Honest Man, well, its the opposite.

[FishOutaWater]

Thanks for the assist on my next blog: Why go from an Ed "Believer" to an "Honest Man"? The dichotomy between these two songs will be made stark and this unique example of one song made into two different songs - pre-lead singer departure and post-lead singer departure - is great evidence that Live will make great music and can succeed without Ed. In fact, in the end, Ed held CCP and Live back artistically.

I guess I have already given away the point of the blog. But stay tuned. I will make the case for all of those Ed "Believers" to change their mind.

[OutToDry]

no go right ahead, i wanted to give heads up to your latest work. Thanks pokey for trying the lyrics too.
Ed did more than hold them back artistically.

[sh4rpz]

To be honest, when I first heard it, with Ed as Believe, I thought it was good - irrespective of the lyrics, cos by then I knew we weren't getting the pre-2000's LIVE back. Especially not since Ed seriously thought SFBM was a return to old-school LIVE. But had the hiatus not come, I'd probably have accepted 'Believe' as a LIVE track.

That isn't to say that I'm not thankful for TGF's 'Honest Man' as I think that has to be one of the better songs CCP have done and it so much better suited to KM in terms of his style of vocal. I think Funky said it back when TGF's album dropped in 2010 that being a drummer, KM has great timing - and for the riffs in Honest Man, that really shows and he doesn't disappoint.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

To be honest, when I first heard it, with Ed as Believe, I thought it was good - irrespective of the lyrics, cos by then I knew we weren't getting the pre-2000's LIVE back. Especially not since Ed seriously thought SFBM was a return to old-school LIVE. But had the hiatus not come, I'd probably have accepted 'Believe' as a LIVE track.

That isn't to say that I'm not thankful for TGF's 'Honest Man' as I think that has to be one of the better songs CCP have done and it so much better suited to KM in terms of his style of vocal. I think Funky said it back when TGF's album dropped in 2010 that being a drummer, KM has great timing - and for the riffs in Honest Man, that really shows and he doesn't disappoint.

That sounds smart so sure, I said it.

When I heard Believe I didn't think it sounded like the band was on the same page at all, then Ed twittered that it was one of the first times the band had ever even played the song together. It wsa getting pretty obvious that CCP and Ed were done but this song was when I knew it.

[+Ed+]

Well, Purifier had some wicked music as well, but the lyrics... At least they tried I say.

[SJN1279]

Well, Purifier had some wicked music as well, but the lyrics... At least they tried I say.

Both songs were weak in my opinion.

[Hobbsy]

Both songs were weak in my opinion.

Of course they were.

No one would expect anything more from you

[Aitkens]

Both songs were weak in my opinion.

Let me guess, too much Chad, Chad, and Patrick. Not enough Ed for your tastes?

[sh4rpz]

Just remembered something I noticed long ago (and might have brought it up before on the boards - not sure) - CT originally used Ruby Lou on 'Believe' and on the samples (I think) before Honest Man. Ever since, I've noticed him using a different guitar on the track and another in the music video as well.

Anyone have any clear idea which one was used in the recording? I'm not so clued up on guitars, but I know sonic wise Ruby Lou is unique - at least on LIVE tracks.