A discussion a long time coming Options

[Pokey]

Don't like .. old people move to Florida or something? Like migrating..

This post has been edited by Pokey: Aug 5 2007, 4:12 am

[Existentialist]

Yeah, lots of old folks...I'm surprised zmanpga isn't here already.

This post has been edited by Existentialist: Aug 5 2007, 4:14 am

[silentsinger]

Personal hostilities are stifling every good discussion from the beginning here - too bad.

[Pokey]

Personal hostilities are stifling every good discussion from the beginning here - too bad.

Exactly, too bad!

[patrick W BURG]

crazy1, I respect that you like Wings, and I respect that it may have helped you through rough times. However, my point was that high school sophomore could have wrote those lyrics. Admit it. If Kelly Clarkson came out with "wings" and it had the same lyrics, no one would bat an eye.

I believe that Ed is still being genuine to his feeling in his song writing. He is happy, and he does feel these lyrics. Feeling the music you create is an essential ingredient for good, powerful music.

However, what is also an essential ingredient, and what has been missing from the last few albums, is the songwriters INTELLECTUALLY challenging themselves. Live is no longer pushing their own boundaries.

The band always talks about, in interviews, an "urgency" that they felt in needing to get their music out, in regards to their first 4 records. Why? Because, their message, style, and voice was something that the music world was lacking. Currently, their music doesn't add anything to the music fold. It is not unique, it does not stand out.

So while Ed may still be keeping it real, and his lyrics and music are natural, there still needs to be that element, where he sits down, analyzes his lyrics and music, and asks himself, "Is this really MY best?" “Is ‘the future is now, the past is gone forever, we can come together’ really the most creative, original, and best way to express my feelings?”

And the same goes for their on-stage presence.

The Distance to Here is a perfect example of how music can be deeply uplifting but not trite or cliched. Even Ed talks about that being his favorite album.

I know there have been quite a few personal digs on this thread. I myself am guilty. But that doesn’t make this whole discussion a wash.

This post has been edited by patrick W BURG: Aug 5 2007, 8:40 am

[Heather]

crazy1, I respect that you like Wings, and I respect that it may have helped you through rough times. However, my point was that high school sophomore could have wrote those lyrics. Admit it. If Kelly Clarkson came out with "wings" and it had the same lyrics, no one would bat an eye.

I believe that Ed is still being genuine to his feeling in his song writing. He is happy, and he does feel these lyrics. Feeling the music you create is an essential ingredient for good, powerful music.

However, what is also an essential ingredient, and what has been missing from the last few albums, is the songwriters INTELLECTUALLY challenging themselves. Live is no longer pushing their own boundaries.

The band always talks about, in interviews, an "urgency" that they felt in needing to get their music out, in regards to their first 4 records. Why? Because, their message, style, and voice was something that the music world was lacking. Currently, their music doesn't add anything to the music fold. It is not unique, it does not stand out.

So while Ed may still be keeping it real, and his lyrics and music are natural, there still needs to be that element, where he sits down, analyzes his lyrics and music, and asks himself, "Is this really MY best?" “Is ‘the future is now, the past is gone forever, we can come together’ really the most creative, original, and best way to express my feelings?”

And the same goes for their on-stage presence.

The Distance to Here is a perfect example of how music can be deeply uplifting but not trite or cliched. Even Ed talks about that being his favorite album.

I know there have been quite a few personal digs on this thread. I myself am guilty. But that doesn’t make this whole discussion a wash.

I agree with everything that you've said. I've been saying it myself forever now. I'm just glad I'm not the only one that gets it. There is something lacking in this band and I just wish they would wake up, let loose and tear it the fuck up like they used to. Sadly I wonder if they even still have it in them at this point. Their stage show has been the same for so long I don't know how they can possibly get excited over performing anymore. I would think it would be just like going through the motions for them and that is exactly what I thought the last time that I saw them. I'd love to see Ed get up on that stage and sing his ass off in an effort to convey his passion for his music to the crowd with conviction and spirit instead of worrying about showing off his freshly waxed chest to the ladies. I miss the intensity that he used to have, the way that his performance seemed so inspired. I really don't see it anymore like others seem to. I'm starting to think that maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm going to all of the wrong shows or I'm seeing them on an "off" night but I just don't get it. I'm thinking maybe the band just strives to be perfect. Like every lighting arrangement is just so for each song, they play songs that they are the most familiar with in an effort to have the song sound perfect and they stage their moves at a certain point during those songs. For me a rock show is not supposed to be perfect. It's supposed to be raw, unpolished and spontaneous. That is what makes a great show for me. I'm probably in the minority around here as far as that goes.

[crazy1]

crazy1, I respect that you like Wings, and I respect that it may have helped you through rough times. However, my point was that high school sophomore could have wrote those lyrics. Admit it. If Kelly Clarkson came out with "wings" and it had the same lyrics, no one would bat an eye.

I believe that Ed is still being genuine to his feeling in his song writing. He is happy, and he does feel these lyrics. Feeling the music you create is an essential ingredient for good, powerful music.

However, what is also an essential ingredient, and what has been missing from the last few albums, is the songwriters INTELLECTUALLY challenging themselves. Live is no longer pushing their own boundaries.

The band always talks about, in interviews, an "urgency" that they felt in needing to get their music out, in regards to their first 4 records. Why? Because, their message, style, and voice was something that the music world was lacking. Currently, their music doesn't add anything to the music fold. It is not unique, it does not stand out.

So while Ed may still be keeping it real, and his lyrics and music are natural, there still needs to be that element, where he sits down, analyzes his lyrics and music, and asks himself, "Is this really MY best?" “Is ‘the future is now, the past is gone forever, we can come together’ really the most creative, original, and best way to express my feelings?”

And the same goes for their on-stage presence.

The Distance to Here is a perfect example of how music can be deeply uplifting but not trite or cliched. Even Ed talks about that being his favorite album.

I know there have been quite a few personal digs on this thread. I myself am guilty. But that doesn’t make this whole discussion a wash.

I understand your point, The Distance happens to be one of my favorite cds but I unfortunately I'm guilty of liking Wings, trite as you say or not. Everyboby is not going to have the same opinions like it or not and I think that is what your not getting!!! Life would be very boring if we all had the same opinions and had nothing to argue about.

[SinfulEyes]

FLORIDA????BWAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH now that is GAY!

Isn't this the same place where you're going to die in a nursing home?

[Bremang]

I hardly ever post here but had to agree on this one. Ed has evolved into and embraced the whole rock star thing. Back in the day Ed never would have done this or acted this way. In fact, when they shot their first video for MTV and were asked to take their shirts off, they all cringed and took issue with it. I've been there since day one and I've seen the evolution. It really kicked in during the V era when he got all into Henry Miller and tantric sex. It's all very cheesy and nothing like the beginning. I remember a show from the Mental Jewelry tour when he came out in his hoodie, stood in one place and sang with such conviction. It was pretty mesmerising and menacing. I'd say things are a little different these days.

ed had his shirt off at plenty of shows during MJ before the band was big

[Pokey]

ed had his shirt off at plenty of shows during MJ before the band was big

Wasn't done like a striptease though.

[Godiva]

Can you guys please stop saying crap like "Ed can do whatever he wants, he is the performer." It's a stupid blanket statment that insults everyone intelligence.

OF COURSE he can do whatever he wants, that's not the point. We can still discuss, as fans, what would make the show stronger, better.

Seems to me that there are people on this board who "get it." Ed's on-stage antics have become lame, and sometimes even detrimental to the energy in the room. We're all for craziness, but this isn't the raw craziness that once captivated us. We still like the band and we still go to shows, but can't help but wonder sometimes what the hell happened. We just can't bring ourselves to fall in love with a performance of "Lakini's Juice" when the singer is flaunting his waxed chest and fondling himself.

Others don't get it, and you may not ever get it. You guys love every single thing Ed does. I think more power to you. I'm happy you're enjoying the shows. But I think you guys are delusional. Of all the songs in Live's catalogue, you pick songs like "Wings" to quote in your signature. You justify Ed by saying things like, "well Ed is hot, and I'd flaunt my body too if I were him." And I think that's the saddest response you can get, and it speaks volumes. We're not talking about Nick Lachey. We're taking about a band that grew up idolizing U2, R.E.M., and Dylan.

I don't think there's any point in convincing you people that don't "get it" already.

BUT there are enough people, fans, non-fans, critics, who are saying the same things I am about Live, that you CAN'T call us wrong.

I really do understand what you guys are saying, but I am just saying that perhaps the band has moved on. Perspectives and means change. They aren't the same band they were. I don't mean to be trite when I say we should let them do what they want. I just trust that whatever they are doing comes from their hearts and even if I fear they might be losing some of the magic, they are human and I trust that the magic will come back with encouragement from fans and whatever invisible muse they turn to.

Now, I am not so much a fan of the newer SFBM Live, but I respect it, and I'll be hanging around waiting to see what has changed for their next album. I guess I just have a little more laid-back personality than you guys do. That's okay, too... maybe even your bitchin' will get Ed to change it up a little. The setlist could use a little work after all, and some of us old-time fans would really appreciate a surprise here and there.

I went to the Indy concert last night. I was a couple people deep in front of the stage. And you know what? I was almost thankful for the posed parts because I knew they were coming and could get out my camera ahead of time. It didn't ruin the experience for me. Ed was energetic, and smiled magnanimously at the crowd. I think he was enjoying himself, although he didn't hardly say a word apart from singing. His voice was pretty spot on for singing, actually. That was a treat. :-)

The way I see it, I know they can't put that kind of emotional, raw, exposed energy every single damn show. When you're a bigger name like they are, you kind of have to cater to the lowest common denominator of the fans you attract, hoping the more mature fans will understand. I'm sure a lot of what I see on stage is pure showbiz, but I am not turned off by it. It doesn't seem all that awkward to me. I'm glad they have something to give rather than being completely boring. I'll take what I can get. If they weren't as big as they were, I wouldn't have the chance to see them anyway.

The experience of a concert is in part what you make it. Regardless of the posed moments, I think the band gives more than enough than is needed for a great show. Half of the impetus to put on a good show is on the audience to give back whatever energy the band is projecting. It's hard to do that if you're focused on silly stuff, posed or not. Maybe I'd understand you guys more if I thought what they did was all that awkward.

[Heather]

The way I see it, I know they can't put that kind of emotional, raw, exposed energy every single damn show. When you're a bigger name like they are, you kind of have to cater to the lowest common denominator of the fans you attract, hoping the more mature fans will understand.

See in my opinion they should cater to the more mature fans instead of the lowest common demoninator. The fans that have stuck by them all of this time, turned their friends onto them, traveled to show after show. I think they are actually doing a better job of that lately with the addition of some more obscure songs to the setlist but they should have been doing that a long time ago. I realize a band isn't always able to pull off an emotional, raw show every single night but I'm not sure Live is capable of that at all anymore, ever. For me it is not about having the perfect oppurtunity to take a picture, it's about having my mind so blown that I can't even remember I brought a camera much less taking my concentration away from the show long enough to focus on taking a picture. Live shows used to do that to me and now they don't. Like I said before, maybe it's just me but I keep hanging around in the hopes that one day when I see them I'll get that feeling back again. Perhaps the reason that I don't get that feeling anymore is my fault and not theirs at all. Who knows?

[Hoodstock]

Gotta love the sarcastic shithead who can't count.

Yeah right little BOY. I can write more explaining what a coward you are if you like....

Says the tough man behind the user name!

It's always nice to see people talk shit on the internet ! It is the best comedy of all!

[Godiva]

See in my opinion they should cater to the more mature fans instead of the lowest common demoninator. The fans that have stuck by them all of this time, turned their friends onto them, traveled to show after show. I think they are actually doing a better job of that lately with the addition of some more obscure songs to the setlist but they should have been doing that a long time ago. I realize a band isn't always able to pull off an emotional, raw show every single night but I'm not sure Live is capable of that at all anymore, ever. For me it is not about having the perfect oppurtunity to take a picture, it's about having my mind so blown that I can't even remember I brought a camera much less taking my concentration away from the show long enough to focus on taking a picture. Live shows used to do that to me and now they don't. Like I said before, maybe it's just me but I keep hanging around in the hopes that one day when I see them I'll get that feeling back again. Perhaps the reason that I don't get that feeling anymore is my fault and not theirs at all. Who knows?

I was swept away during some parts of show, and distracted in others... but I see that as my own fault for not focusing. Not saying you don't have a point, however... Live's music has an ethereal, spiritual quality at times, and it would be nice if I didn't have to conjure up the feeling so much. It should exude from the stage (and sometimes, I still think it does!). But I guess my thing is that I don't feel like it's a huge problem yet. I felt it last night, and I did last summer. It just has a slightly different feel to it than it did in the 90s, and I honestly don't relate to it (SFBM) as well as the older stuff, but I can still dig it. I was young and full of angst. I don't expect to feel the same now as I did back then. I just wish I had seen them in their Distance to Here tours... that would have been a peak experience for me.

Here's hoping you get what you're looking for the next time you see them.

[LiveRoCkS77]

crazy1, I respect that you like Wings, and I respect that it may have helped you through rough times. However, my point was that high school sophomore could have wrote those lyrics. Admit it. If Kelly Clarkson came out with "wings" and it had the same lyrics, no one would bat an eye.

I believe that Ed is still being genuine to his feeling in his song writing. He is happy, and he does feel these lyrics. Feeling the music you create is an essential ingredient for good, powerful music.

However, what is also an essential ingredient, and what has been missing from the last few albums, is the songwriters INTELLECTUALLY challenging themselves. Live is no longer pushing their own boundaries.

The band always talks about, in interviews, an "urgency" that they felt in needing to get their music out, in regards to their first 4 records. Why? Because, their message, style, and voice was something that the music world was lacking. Currently, their music doesn't add anything to the music fold. It is not unique, it does not stand out.

So while Ed may still be keeping it real, and his lyrics and music are natural, there still needs to be that element, where he sits down, analyzes his lyrics and music, and asks himself, "Is this really MY best?" “Is ‘the future is now, the past is gone forever, we can come together’ really the most creative, original, and best way to express my feelings?”

And the same goes for their on-stage presence.

The Distance to Here is a perfect example of how music can be deeply uplifting but not trite or cliched. Even Ed talks about that being his favorite album.

I know there have been quite a few personal digs on this thread. I myself am guilty. But that doesn’t make this whole discussion a wash.

Now this is a post I dig.

Oh wait!! Who says dig anymore? I think I must go change my diaper.....