You're smoking something, What is it? Options

[themaestro]

Are you referring to the incident in New Zealand? That happened on the V tour.

I don't know. I just remember reading about his state of mind during the BOP tour. Maybe I'm combining a few instances. The point is, the state of the band and his lack of creative input was a real source of pain and stress for CT as well as the others for some time. Some people seem to suggest they should have just dealt with it because they were complicit in the direction of the band. I don't agree.

This post has been edited by themaestro: Jan 18 2012, 10:03 pm

[Bremang]

Has nothing to do with the music, although the music did suffer the more he made it about him. Hmm... interesting how that as he took over more the music suffered.

Wrong. When you were talking about Ed's respect for Live's legacy, and about how Ed pushed CCP away, you were talking about the music. You have an idea for what Live's legacy is, and its about how you think their music should sound, and your opinion does not apply to all Live fans.

Anyway, setting that aside, I'm sure anyone with any pride would feel disrespected to have their parts written for them.

haha damn Maestro - go tell tell that to every orchestra and cover band and rock band member who play songs that another band member writes.

You're right in that CCP didn't have to go along with it. Wouldn't have erased the disrespect. In fact, it would have made it worse to just quit altogether and not make music. But they finally said enough is enough. Good for them for picking up the pieces and trying to move forward.

Actually - again, from what we know, I don't see how Ed's decision to push the band away was disrespectful to CCP necessarily. I don't see anyone making a good argument for it.

[Wambangalang]

the guy is a true artist, meaning he's an emotional fruit cake who makes rash decisions and suffers from thinking a little too much. Evidenced by his bizarre choices in blog posts in recent years about ed, the incident in NZ where he blogged about seriously attempting suicide then removed the post soon after when his mood stabilized. The guy should have a tv show with joan rivers. I think for this reason his radio show will be good, whenever thats happening, ....if thats even happening..... whats happening?

Whos the new lead singer?

[Bremang]

I think you fail to see the hidden meanings here. Many complaints lodged from faithful Live fans stems arounds Ed's ever expanding ego........I don't think you have a case here. His withdrawal from band personal, friendships from early age.......are a result in this ugly little word. No disrespect to what he was able to do for a long time, but when the ship sailed he set it afire.

Stop calling me hater attorney 100,000,000,000,000,000 in training....just giving a little realism by the common man.

The hidden meanings from faithful ever expanding common realism egoness........you're an idiot. Try making an actual argument along with your claim.

[Wambangalang]

bremang dont ever change bro. i love your retarded bullshit man, you remind me of the wile E cyote from road runner..... i dont know why

[Wambangalang]

no wait, you're the road runner! I hated that cunt, always wanted the cyote to catch him!!!! But he never did!!!

This post has been edited by Wambangalang: Jan 19 2012, 2:51 am

[Bremang]

You know, all this talk about Ed, Live, his ego, the band dynamic, made me think about CT's blog explaining his state of mind during the BOP tour. The dude was practically suicidal, distraught over the state of his band and his lack of participation creatively. To say that it was perfectly fine for Ed to direct the band the way he did or that CCP chose their bed is just ridiculous.

did chad keep this bottled up or did he talk to ed about it?

still, Ed shouldn't be held hostage for the direction of the band when Chad gets incredibly depressed. that is something they need to work out on the side. CCP were complicit with the new arrangement, and Ed was not disrespectful about it as far as I can tell.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jan 19 2012, 3:04 am

[Bremang]

they weren't just band mates, they were childhood friends...they did things like family, they allowed Ed his space to push himself forward, I think that was a sacrafice to keep things status quo....we know things were not. Tell me most people were not quietly wondering why everything was sliding away from the band dynamic strength? I wondered for years....I openly decided to stop attending shows and expecting them to return to their roots (due to the direction and musical shite).....I never stopped listening to the magic of the first 4 records and countless roio's.

The story to now is not something that they wished happened, but it did. Time to correct it for the sake of the music. If they recapture some of it, I think that's a win for them and the fans.

We don't really know what went on behind closed doors. Again, so many more factors to consider than simply the idea the CCP had less involvement.

[Pokey]

haha damn Maestro - go tell tell that to every orchestra and cover band and rock band member who play songs that another band member writes.
Actually - again, from what we know, I don't see how Ed's decision to push the band away was disrespectful to CCP necessarily. I don't see anyone making a good argument for it.

The difference is an orchestra and cover band know their role. They know that is what they do. Its their job description to cover other people's work. Its not like someone chooses to be in a cover band and then cries because they're doing covers. These guys are creative artists who suddenly were not creating anymore in order to prolong a friendship.

God I don't think I've seen you agree with anything anyone has ever said. You just want an argument for the sake of it. Any point anyone makes you want to be the defense council. How can Ed's decision to shut CCP out of the writing process not be hurtful or disrespectful? Did part of your law training require you to check your feelings and emotions out at the door?

You can say "but we don't know Ed went about it in a disrespectful way" just to prolong this ridiculous argument and true, we don't. But when we have a member of the band TELLING US he was hurt by it then surely you can join the dots.
Of course its going to effect the music if things change behind the scenes. If an Author suddenly decides he doesn't want to use his editor and will refuse all other input but his own and then publishes his work just as is - you can bet your life it will read a hell of a lot differently than if he had people pointing out to him where he went wrong.
I think the whole argument started by saying Ed shit on the legacy before anyone else did, so anyone claiming that legacy shitting is going on now is making a redundant point.

Fine, if you believe tht Live were as amazing in your eyes in 2006 as they were in 1996 that's up to you. This whole argument is pointless anyways there's simply two options as far as I'm concerned:

Do you agree Live getting a new singer is good/somewhat exciting? Are you honestly interested in giving new Live a go in hopes you'll really like them? Then stick around and enjoy the ride.

Do you already hate the idea if Libe with a new singer? Have you decided the music will be terrible? Do you still want to listen to Ed or harbor a grudge against CCP? Then there is no point continuing here. This site is for FANS of Live. Maybe you once were but if all you're going to do is spend time bitching about things that can't be changed just take a look at the negativity you're causing for others here. Even if you believe you're right. Ed has a solo career to follow and no one can change the magic of the album we already have to listen to up to the day we die. But please, ask yourself why you're still here.

I guess there's a 3rd option. Do you not really like Ed's music but want to defend him where possible because innocent until proven guilty? Do you quite like CCP's music but want to constantly question their moral fiber? Do you want to flex your argymentive muscles where ever possible? Be Bremang.

[Bremang]

bremang dont ever change bro. i love your retarded bullshit man, you remind me of the wile E cyote from road runner..... i dont know why

u love it cause u can't knock it

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jan 19 2012, 3:09 am

[Pokey]

did chad keep this bottled up or did he talk to ed about it?

still, Ed shouldn't be held hostage for the direction of the band when Chad gets incredibly depressed. that is something they need to work out on the side. CCP were complicit with the new arrangement, and Ed was not disrespectful about it as far as I can tell.

How can you say "as far as I can tell" when by your own admission we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. Ed could have been an utter cunt, like Chad's story about fluting off the handle thinking Chad was claiming he wrote Heaven on MySpace and going nuts at him rather than just coming to talk. Do you think Chad was out right lying about this? Or are you going to claim "we don't know the real story cos Ed could have been having a bad day and was going to talk to chad calmly but then stubbed his toe and emotion took the better of him and he flew off the handle"?

So if we don't know what went on behind closed doors then none of us should have any opinions, not even yours. There are a lot of us who choose to put a lot of faith in CT's words. Yes there's always another side to the story and yes his versions of events are purely from his point of view. But whatever was happening made him feel that way. You can chose to join the dots or you can keep going "well until a judge declares that Ed upset Chad then I choose not to believe chad should be upset by Ed". Just stop man.

[Bremang]

Put Ed out front all you want. He was the symbol of Live but not the driving force. The driving force was Live itself, the combination of all 4. The collective energy that they all received from the group, that gave them the confidence, the inspiration, the drive, the wherewithal to create those special albums. Ed was given a tremendous platform to head that band. He certainly had the vocal ability and lyrical ability but it never would have come to fruition without that band dynamic.

My post was merely to argue percentages of input into the band. You are not arguing against my point by saying that their dynamic made them special.

Once he drove a wedge in that dynamic, look how things turned out. He was no longer influenced by the others around him and the collective energy of Live. He's just not capable on his own of creating what they did together. The driving force was Live, not Ed.

You, and many here, can't seem to grasp a concept. We don't know how Live changed due to Ed's waning abilities abilities vs. how Ed pushed CCP away.

[Bremang]

All this arguing about how much he contributed is pointless. They all contributed in their own way and in the end it was equally split when things were working. Just because someone may not write as much of the music or lyrics does not mean they were not contributing to the lyrics or music in some way.

nope

[Bremang]

. But people can grow apart and still maintain respect for others and treat them with dignity. EK did not.

how so?

To put EK on this pedestal because of his contributions to Live is really ignoring the fact that many other people supported him and put him in that position.

not really.

Then he turned his back on them.

how so?

[Bremang]

Now think of TGF v. Alive....which one sounds more like the first 4 albums and which sounds more like everything since?

Exactly.

So is it still cut and dry that Ed was the "driving force"? Or do you think CCP had more to do with it than some think?

That's interesting. You have to consider that Jerry produced TGF though, huge factor.
Plus, Ed didn't need to have the majority of control to be a driving force. It depends on your definition of driving force. If you could somehow put it into percentages, Ed could have been 40% of the band Live, which still makes him the highest contributor out of the four, but maybe not enough to say he put out more than CCP altogether. That being said, I'm not sure what sounds more like the first 4 albums, but I like TGF more.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jan 19 2012, 4:36 am