What really happened to Ed? Options

[OutToDry]

they are fans

No, LET ME CLEARLY SAY IT AGAIN.......if you are not a fan of someone, why would you follow someone, then give a disparaging comment.



Stop moving the FUCKING GOALPOST.

[Bremang]

KIDS: Dad, can we stop somewhere for ice-cream?

BREMANG: ...Of course we "CAN".

20 minutes later

KIDS: Dad, i thought we were gonna stop somewhere for ice-cream?

BREMANG: You "thought" we were going to stop somewhere for ice-cream? I said we "can", i didnt say we would. And i didnt say where, i agreed to "somewhere".

An hour later

KIDS: So...are we gettin' ice-cream or what dad?

BREMANG: If by "we" you include "me", then yes, as it would be "me" paying. Or are you saying there could be another alternative?

KIDS: ...Ice-cream...

BREMANG: As i thought, i'll totally disregard the entire conversation.

KIDS: Dad, you really are a CUNT

lol i'm not literally a vagina kids

[Bremang]

No, LET ME CLEARLY SAY IT AGAIN.......if you are not a fan of someone, why would you follow someone, then give a disparaging comment.

Stop moving the FUCKING GOALPOST.

if you're not a fan, you wouldn't follow someone, and you wouldn't say disparaging remarks if you don't follow them.

but you trying to agree with pokey's argument, but i don't see how you helped his point, cause the guy who made the comment in pokey's argument is a fan.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Oct 4 2011, 6:22 am

[Pokey]

if you're not a fan, you wouldn't follow someone, and you wouldn't say disparaging remarks if you don't follow them.

but you trying to agree with pokey's argument, but i don't see how you helped his point, cause the guy who made the comment in pokey's argument is a fan.

I'd say he'd be a fan that was walking away, a former fan. Or do you know him personally?

He may have been a fan of what Live was, as I imagine every person there who has something negative to say about Live getting back together without Ed. (Except Nick, we've already established he never thought anything of CCP).
So of course in some round about way yes they are fans (harks back to Wam's "yes we 'CAN' get Ice Cream"). But by stating that "No Ed, No Live" he's pretty much renouncing his fandom. He'd be walking away, if he continues to stay then .. what? "No Ed, no Live! But .. I'm going to keep following you guys anyways because you're Live and I'm a fan of Live .. but, you're not Live, because Ed isn't here, but I still like you guys, I'm a fan of Live, but you're not Live.."
It just doesn't make any fucking sense. The only way I can make heads or tails of it is one of 2 things. Either it's purely a means to cause trouble and to be a winey little bitch. Or you were a fan of what Live was in the past and don't like the change .. in which case Live have nothing further to offer you moving forward - grow up and move on.

It's just plain and simple ... if you're not happy with the way things are either piss off and go do something else, or if you're going to stay and complain, then be prepared to get told to stfu by people who are excited about this new venture, including the band. Fucking babies.

This post has been edited by Pokey: Oct 4 2011, 6:43 am

[Bremang]

It just doesn't make any fucking sense. The only way I can make heads or tails of it is one of 2 things. Either it's purely a means to cause trouble and to be a winey little bitch. Or you were a fan of what Live was in the past and don't like the change .. in which case Live have nothing further to offer you moving forward - grow up and move on.

thats so obtuse dude........if you love or enjoy something for years and then it one day turns to shit, i hope you don't say a word and let it burn up inside you, and never confront whoever made it change.

even if the guy didn't care that much, an FB message board isn't some sanctimonious place. if he felt like giving his meaningless 2 cents, that's where you do it.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Oct 4 2011, 2:32 pm

[Pokey]

thats so obtuse dude........if you love or enjoy something for years and then it one day turns to shit, i hope you don't say a word and let it burn up inside you, and never confront whoever made it change.

even if the guy didn't care that much, an FB message board isn't some sanctimonious place. if he felt like giving his meaningless 2 cents, that's where you do it.

It's a bit early to jump the gun on this "turning to shit". Anyone who holds that view before they have heard anything aren't worth arguing with because all they can do is speculate. I was skeptical on Kevin Martin's voice when I heard he was going to front TGF, I didn't bitch and moan about it, I gave it a chance because I had respect for CCP and wanted to see if they could produce the goods. Turns out I loved it. I might have ended up hating it, who knows. But I wasnt stamping my feet like a spoilt child.

I just don't see how you can hold one set of standards for the fans and another for the band.

Anyways it's pointless trying to change each others minds, agreed?

[Hoodstock]

*yawn*

[PillarOfDavidson]

lol i'm not literally a vagina kids

KIDS: Actually, dad... your head is one giant clit and we can clearly see you stroking it.

[OutToDry]

[+Ed+]

KIDS: Dad, you really are a CUNT

You forgot to put @CUNT@ into inverted commas there, mate

[crazy1]

shut up

Yeah....that is two words I would like to say to you everytime you post. Have a nice day!

[FishOutaWater]

Every time I look at the title of this thread, I think of the question in the broader sense. The bigger picture. There has been an agglomeration of facts and develoments that point to a real change in Ed's attitude toward the music industry, spirituality, money and his relationships. I won't bother to go through all of the details here. It has been said many times in many threads.

But how does a guy who wrote this in his teens:

"I've been to every book
I've been to every seer
In order to find the truth
As if it lives somewhere

I want to uproot my violence
I want to live like a saint
I want to give up everything

Just like the businessman wants to gain
Just like the businessman wants to gain

Please don't tell me what peace is
Let's look together
And find out what love is not"


... end up professing to have found the truth in the "Good Book", trying to gain like a business man, and keeps telling us where peace can be found? It is a complete turn-about of philosophy and enlightenment. Going from negation to greed. Mystical enlightenment to dogma. Caring about the music to caring about merchandise.

That's what frustrates those of us who actually used to get it, and who really gave a damn. Not about just the music, but about the +Spirit of Live+.

It's like finding out that Ghandi was just Hitler in a robe of truth. Like finding out that John Lennnon was Bernie Maddoff.


I was listening to Four Songs on the way into work today, using every bit of the 780 watts my car stereo can produce. I love the song Negation. It is mind boggling to listen to the bass in Heaven Wore a Shirt and hear how it drives the song. But if you want to know what the perfect Live song is, then listen to Good Pain. It is the perfect example of all four parts of the band working together.

The song starts out soft. Ed is singing about what Krishnamurti "said".
Ed is the student of philosophy, listening and trying to understand.
Then, in a moment of awakening, Ed get's it: "well, don't you know, now I; I'll never be the same again"!
What does this awakening mean? "no more bittersweet; no more good pain; no more..."

And that's when it happens. The music ERUPTS, just like the blossoming awareness of the lyricist at that very moment. "HEY!!" RAT TAT TAT, RAT TAT TAT of the drums. The music compliments the lyrics. And the lyrics shift to the perspective of the enlightened man, who now gets it, and explains it: "so many of us stand in the middle; looking back to the worst; looking forward to the fall... no more bittersweet, no more good pain"

And there you have it. +Live+ firing on all cylinders. Ed is enlightened and beautifully articulating advanced spiritual philosophy. CCP bringing their musical genious to the table and the guitar, drums and bass working together with the lyrics and the tempo to make one whole complete song. No part undervalued. Every part wokring together in harmony. Balance. Brilliance.

Every song off of Mental Jewelry gives me goosebumps every time I listen to it to this very day. I am amazed at what was done by those four guys.

And now, we have Christian Rocker Ed, stealing from his friends, selling stick figure drawings and singing about the holy Eucharist.

So what happened to Ed? That's a darn good question.

[World Dreamer]

Every time I look at the title of this thread, I think of the question in the broader sense. The bigger picture. There has been an agglomeration of facts and develoments that point to a real change in Ed's attitude toward the music industry, spirituality, money and his relationships. I won't bother to go through all of the details here. It has been said many times in many threads.

But how does a guy who wrote this in his teens:

"I've been to every book
I've been to every seer
In order to find the truth
As if it lives somewhere

I want to uproot my violence
I want to live like a saint
I want to give up everything

Just like the businessman wants to gain
Just like the businessman wants to gain

Please don't tell me what peace is
Let's look together
And find out what love is not"
... end up professing to have found the truth in the "Good Book", trying to gain like a business man, and keeps telling us where peace can be found? It is a complete turn-about of philosophy and enlightenment. Going from negation to greed. Mystical enlightenment to dogma. Caring about the music to caring about merchandise.

That's what frustrates those of us who actually used to get it, and who really gave a damn. Not about just the music, but about the +Spirit of Live+.

It's like finding out that Ghandi was just Hitler in a robe of truth. Like finding out that John Lennnon was Bernie Maddoff.
I was listening to Four Songs on the way into work today, using every bit of the 780 watts my car stereo can produce. I love the song Negation. It is mind boggling to listen to the bass in Heaven Wore a Shirt and hear how it drives the song. But if you want to know what the perfect Live song is, then listen to Good Pain. It is the perfect example of all four parts of the band working together.

The song starts out soft. Ed is singing about what Krishnamurti "said".
Ed is the student of philosophy, listening and trying to understand.
Then, in a moment of awakening, Ed get's it: "well, don't you know, now I; I'll never be the same again"!
What does this awakening mean? "no more bittersweet; no more good pain; no more..."

And that's when it happens. The music ERUPTS, just like the blossoming awareness of the lyricist at that very moment. "HEY!!" RAT TAT TAT, RAT TAT TAT of the drums. The music compliments the lyrics. And the lyrics shift to the perspective of the enlightened man, who now gets it, and explains it: "so many of us stand in the middle; looking back to the worst; looking forward to the fall... no more bittersweet, no more good pain"

And there you have it. +Live+ firing on all cylinders. Ed is enlightened and beautifully articulating advanced spiritual philosophy. CCP bringing their musical genious to the table and the guitar, drums and bass working together with the lyrics and the tempo to make one whole complete song. No part undervalued. Every part wokring together in harmony. Balance. Brilliance.

Every song off of Mental Jewelry gives me goosebumps every time I listen to it to this very day. I am amazed at what was done by those four guys.

And now, we have Christian Rocker Ed, stealing from his friends, selling stick figure drawings and singing about the holy Eucharist.

So what happened to Ed? That's a darn good question.

Listen to Heaven. That is what happened to Ed.

[FishOutaWater]

Listen to Heaven. That is what happened to Ed.

CCP have kids and they still have the same brains, creativity and creative integrity they had when they wrote Mental Jewelry.

[World Dreamer]

CCP have kids and they still have the same brains, creativity and creative integrity they had when they wrote Mental Jewelry.

I agree, but it all got suppressed by Ed. They knew all along they were going in a direction that wasn't Live. CCP went soft too. Hell, CT even said that Ed showed up with Heaven and CT knew it would be a hit, it just wasn't what he had in mind (or something like that, I forget the exact quote) but they recorded it anyway. And then they recorded SFBM.

I agree they still had all those things (TGF proves that) but they got put in the closet for the last decade. And that is their fault to some degree. CT has said as much.

This post has been edited by World Dreamer: Oct 7 2011, 9:50 am