New Live? Options

[Pokey]

Claims get filed which often seem like shots in the dark. CCP may have not been privy to the reasons why Ed and Levin had been doing everything legally. This lawsuit would at least force discovery. Ed and Levin both claim that they had not stolen anything. I could pose the same question to you and ask why Ed and Levin would say that they were acting in their legal right if it they didn't have just cause. Could Ed have really been so stupid as to steal in plain sight? There are plenty of potential scenario's here.
These array of things people are using to base their opinion of Ed are often not well thought out.

-Chad has repeatedly said that Ed's "domination" was not contested, or at times consensual, and the fault of all the band members. This was combined with many other factors - record label crap, Ed's fading abilities, change in the music industry. This power struggle does not show to me that Ed was a bad to his bandmates or egotistical.

-Being bereft of creativity is how I see it, but not how Ed's current legions of fans see it. For the millionth time, creativity is just an opinion. And not something that should really be connected to whether or not Ed is a scoundrel.

-Yeah, I tend to give famous people leeway when it comes to interacting with fans. You never know who you're dealing with when some random person jumps up to you. Being rude to the fans is not cool but whatever, I'm personally fine with that. However, I really don't hear too many stories of Ed being bad to fans, and we never hear Ed's side of the story either.
ODT has been talking out his ass long before he claims to have snuck a few words in with whoever.
I'm pro-rationalization - anti-bullshit. Not fighting for equality.
you never know. I saw him play in concert this year. I really don't think he has it in him to do much better anymore. He's got his cookie cutter show, and I think it suits him now.

Ok i'll actually respond to some more of these.

Firstly I'm not saying CCP had no part in the blame of ending Live. Their crime was not ending it sooner before it got out of hand. But for whatever reason they hung around, I would see it as trying to keep a friendship and brothership together, like fighting for a marraige. Nick has said before they only stuck around because it earned them more money. Yes I'm sure they did earn more, but come on, REALLY what do you think was the main motivator for sticking around? I say it was to continue to work on things and that they probably just didn't know how to end it, it was a confusing and messed up time and their best friend was slipping away. Nick says its all $$$, I'm sure you'll say we'll never know so we shouldn't speculate.

As for the creativity thing, there is a big difference. Yes anyone can like anything, if someone like's Ed's music and they think it's creative, then that's fine. That doesn't make it so though. I'm judging it by his own standards, the quality of his writing compared to what he used to write, not even about the subject because obviously as you get older that can change. But the quality itself has gotten poorer, that is undeniable. Yes it means that someone can still like it, and yes Ed is talented, but he's not pushing himself anymore to the limits we know he can reach. And there are people out there that may call it creative, but they're more than likely basing that on terms of knowing they could not do better. Sure Ed right now is more creative than a vast majority of people, he's an artist. But by his own standards, no, the creativity has long dropped off. You said it yourself, cookie cutter, that's what it is now.
I never have disputed Nick's love of Ed's music, if he likes it, that's totally fine, it's everything else that comes with it about him which is off.

[Bremang]

Bre the way it seems with you is that if there is .01% chance of things not being absolutely proven then you'd prefer people just shut the entire issue down. You don't seem to have any stance at all other than we should just forget the whole thing.

I don't treat a .01% chance as a reason to disengage a much larger argument. I put much more contrary ideas on the table. You think Ed would steal in plain sight and that he and his lawyers would be lying about their claims that they were doing everything legally? Seems to require discovery, plain and simple. My only stance is don't bullshit me. So I was taking on ODT's remarks mainly, I hardly follow what Nick says or the responses to his comments. Its mostly just hating on Nick, instead of swiftly putting the BS down. Also, people gloss over when he makes a point cause they tend to be too full of rage.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jul 28 2011, 2:31 am

[Bremang]

Ok i'll actually respond to some more of these.

Firstly I'm not saying CCP had no part in the blame of ending Live. Their crime was not ending it sooner before it got out of hand. But for whatever reason they hung around, I would see it as trying to keep a friendship and brothership together, like fighting for a marraige. Nick has said before they only stuck around because it earned them more money. Yes I'm sure they did earn more, but come on, REALLY what do you think was the main motivator for sticking around? I say it was to continue to work on things and that they probably just didn't know how to end it, it was a confusing and messed up time and their best friend was slipping away. Nick says its all $$$, I'm sure you'll say we'll never know so we shouldn't speculate.

I definitely think the tendency for band members is a desire to stay in a band. Plus it seems like their main source of income. Would probably be a bad idea to leave the $$$ in their position. I don't know.

As for the creativity thing, there is a big difference. Yes anyone can like anything, if someone like's Ed's music and they think it's creative, then that's fine. That doesn't make it so though.
I'm judging it by his own standards, the quality of his writing compared to what he used to write, not even about the subject because obviously as you get older that can change. But the quality itself has gotten poorer, that is undeniable. Yes it means that someone can still like it, and yes Ed is talented, but he's not pushing himself anymore to the limits we know he can reach. And there are people out there that may call it creative, but they're more than likely basing that on terms of knowing they could not do better. Sure Ed right now is more creative than a vast majority of people, he's an artist. But by his own standards, no, the creativity has long dropped off. You said it yourself, cookie cutter, that's what it is now. I never have disputed Nick's love of Ed's music, if he likes it, that's totally fine, it's everything else that comes with it about him which is off.

You don't know what Ed can or can't do now. You're probably holding him to standards that are too high. When you say "that doesn't make it so though", you are simply making your subjective opinion sound objective.

[Pokey]

Fair enough if you want to take on OTD then fine, I know he knows a lot more about the situation than moat here due to his connections and yes he's the CCP posterboy as Nick is Eds, the difference is OTD is sane and actually cares about the music. Nick on nut pus occasions has shown he doesn't give a damn about the music.


And as far as holding Ed to a standard he can't capture anymore, that's on Ed. He's chosen to cut ties with the guys who helped him create great music, and that was long before Live broke up. He chose to write on his own and his creativity fell apart because he used to write in a unit where creativity flourished. It's no coincidence when the writing style changed then so did the creative output. The fact is his creative drive seems to have gone, 2-3min basic pop songs are all he is willing to put out. But whatever you see that as being open to interpretation, I don't.

As for the lawsuit, yeah maybe Ed did nothing wrong because "why would he?" but can you really dispute that he pushed the others out of the creative circle of Live and decided to basically go solo within the band? The act alone sounds like the act of a man who is after his own glory with a big ego. It just is so fitting he'd go after the financial glory too. Yes there is no 100% proof of this but he's shown nothing to the contrary. I mean that video interview where he got pushed on the issue. That just screamed guilty. But fair enough, you want 100% proof first before you'll quit the "crusade against bullshit" or whatever it is.

[Hoodstock]

I honestly have no idea what Ed makes touring, and neither do you. He must be making decent money for the most part because he continues to do it.

Assumptions of Ed's success are alright but anything related to TGF or Live must be fact based on sales, income, or some other fact?

Everything about you is hypocrytical.



This post has been edited by Hoodstock: Jul 28 2011, 3:25 am

[Bremang]

And as far as holding Ed to a standard he can't capture anymore, that's on Ed. He's chosen to cut ties with the guys who helped him create great music, and that was long before Live broke up. He chose to write on his own and his creativity fell apart because he used to write in a unit where creativity flourished. It's no coincidence when the writing style changed then so did the creative output. The fact is his creative drive seems to have gone, 2-3min basic pop songs are all he is willing to put out. But whatever you see that as being open to interpretation, I don't.

Again, you talk about creativity and writing style like your opinion is the objective truth. Again, you're assuming Ed's abilities. Again, you are avoiding all the other factors that Chad has already told you about, such as pressures in their label and music industry, and CCP's fault in the matter, and saying it was all Ed's decision.

As for the lawsuit, yeah maybe Ed did nothing wrong because "why would he?" but can you really dispute that he pushed the others out of the creative circle of Live and decided to basically go solo within the band? The act alone sounds like the act of a man who is after his own glory with a big ego. It just is so fitting he'd go after the financial glory too. Yes there is no 100% proof of this but he's shown nothing to the contrary. I mean that video interview where he got pushed on the issue. That just screamed guilty. But fair enough, you want 100% proof first before you'll quit the "crusade against bullshit" or whatever it is.

"The act alone" does not seem like glory or big ego to me at all. Again you are not recalling Chad. Its not like Ed had resistance from CCP, so they weren't being pushed out in the malevolent way you make it seem. Or he could have just as likely been trying to survive cause he could not perform at the level that CCP was doing. Maybe he was tired of grunge or darker music. Who knows. There are a million possible explanations.

That video interview does not sound like guilt to me at all. It sounds like an interviewer who is asking questions that Ed can't answer because of a current lawsuit, and annoyance that the interviewer was not promoting the album, which is the only reason Ed was doing the interview in the first place. On top of which the interviewer was catching him off guard about that emotional subject, and insulting Ed throughout the interview on other topics. Or maybe if Ed did explain the contract properly, it would require talking about money figures, and that would not be something Ed should discuss. Or maybe it would point out that Ed would make a lot of money for some reason, which would reinforce alot of stupid fans' ideas of Ed being greedy, when in fact Ed might deserve the money. Who knows. The last thing it points out IMO, is guilt. That is not evident to me after seeing it again. It sounds more like Ed thinking fast about how to avoid the interviewers' bullshit.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jul 28 2011, 3:59 am

[Wambangalang]

man how did i ever get involved in this freak show! Every member of this band has probably had more sex with more women in one night than i have even fantasized about in my life. They probably light their cuban cigars with hundred dollar bills. Rich, oversexed, overpaid rock star mother fuckers the lot of them. Fuck them all. I take no sides coz they're all spoiled brats. Just make good music again and i'll buy your shit,

[Pokey]

Again, you talk about creativity and writing style like your opinion is the objective truth. Again, you're assuming Ed's abilities. Again, you are avoiding all the other factors that Chad has already told you about, such as pressures in their label and music industry, and CCP's fault in the matter, and saying it was all Ed's decision.



"The act alone" does not seem like glory or big ego to me at all. Again you are not recalling Chad. Its not like Ed had resistance from CCP, so they weren't being pushed out in the malevolent way you make it seem. Or he could have just as likely been trying to survive cause he could not perform at the level that CCP was doing. Maybe he was tired of grunge or darker music. Who knows. There are a million possible explanations.

That video interview does not sound like guilt to me at all. It sounds like an interviewer who is asking questions that Ed can't answer because of a current lawsuit, and annoyance that the interviewer was not promoting the album, which is the only reason Ed was doing the interview in the first place. On top of which the interviewer was catching him off guard about that emotional subject, and insulting Ed throughout the interview on other topics. Or maybe if Ed did explain the contract properly, it would require talking about money figures, and that would not be something Ed should discuss. Or maybe it would point out that Ed would make a lot of money for some reason, which would reinforce alot of stupid fans' ideas of Ed being greedy, when in fact Ed might deserve the money. Who knows. The last thing it points out IMO, is guilt. That is not evident to me after seeing it again. It sounds more like Ed thinking fast about how to avoid the interviewers' bullshit.

Ok I give up on the topic, I respectfully disagree with most of these points though.

[sh4rpz]

Throwing Copper is the album LIVE is most known for. Lightning Crashes is the song that LIVE is most known for. I don't think anything Ed or or new LIVE do in the future will surpass either of those things(sales or relevance).

I have to say, that down here LC is quite popular, although 'I Alone', 'The Dolphin's Cry', 'TSUFL', 'RTTW' and 'Heaven' are the most popular LIVE songs. With that, TDTH is probably the most popular LIVE album released in SA - where LIVE first started to rake up it's core fans in SA.

Ask most LIVE 'fans' here and they will rank TDTH as their fav LIVE album. In my encounters with LIVE fans in SA anyway.

Edit: btw, this is just my personal perspective - I am sure it varies in the different countries. Just saying.

Edit 2: Most SA LIVE fans like these songs, they buy the cds and go to the concerts - many know Ed by name, much less of them know ANY band member names off-the-top-of-their-heads, and in my opinion not many who will listen to the new material will immediately realize that there's a new lead singer unless it becomes a major talking point of any future tour/album release. SA music fans in general just don't care that much about LIVE's history to notice that kind of thing - if it's a good tune - it'l get lapped up down here under the name LIVE. That's about as far 'well-known' as LIVE is - the name LIVE.

This post has been edited by sh4rpz: Jul 28 2011, 5:12 pm

[Aitkens]

All this talk of "brothers" and such, I thought crossed my mind today.

We've seen Chad Taylor support his brother Adam, both in attending his shows, and filling in when Adam needed a guitar player. We've also seen Chad help spread the music of Adam, with the help of Facebook.

I cannot once recall Ed doing that for his brother Adam as of late. Don't hear about him attending Adam's shows, or playing on stage with him, and I have yet to see him offer any support for Adam's new band.


If you can't even support your own blood, what good are you?

[OutToDry]

Still in good condition after 12 years.

[Aitkens]

Great photo, but it's incorrect. We all know that CAG drums without shoes on.

[OutToDry]

Great photo, but it's incorrect. We all know that CAG drums without shoes on.

well very true Aitkens, but that's how that t shirt was done.

This post has been edited by OutToDry: Jul 28 2011, 8:40 pm

[LiveRoCkS77]

I'm not sticking up for him so much as I am shutting you up. You and others are boneheads who hold Ed to 1995 standards, not me. You know that I'm someone who does not believe that Ed's potential was squandered. He can't rock now, and that is how it should be at his age. Nor am I dumb enough to believe that he made devious decisions just because some fans don't like his new direction, or that this unresolved lawsuit means that Ed isn't privy to, or doesn't deserve, certain compensation. Even if he was an asshole to the core, his music which spread to millions, is a blast of positive energy that will long outlive his personality. Ed deserves to be wealthy and famous till the day he dies for his fucking incredible contribution to rock. And as far as him being a nice guy, you probably don't know him at all. So what if he doesn't want to talk to an obsessed fan. If I was his manager, I would tell him to smile and wave at you, but keep a safe distance.

So you think you're shutting anyone up now??? LMFAO, you've been a joke from your first post here buddy, so I wouldn't be bragging about shutting anybody up or anything of the sort.

Saying Ed can't rock anymore and that's how it should be at his age?? Are you fucking kdding me??? Is that why guy like Jagger and Tyler can still do it quite well, being over 20 years Ed's senior??? Do you need me to provide you some more examples?? Because I can make a list ten fucking poages long you blubbering idiot.

And WTF do you know to the contrary about Ed's personality?? I don't know him personally, but I do know a few folks who do, who say that he isn't the nicest of people and certainly not a gentleman to his fans who've supported him and paid for his lifestyle all these fucking years.

And again, who the fuck are you to decide whther or not ED deserves to be wealthy and famous til death? A supposed incredible contribution to rock makes him deserved of this??? Are you fucking serious?? And call OTHER people boneheads in the same paragraph?? Utterly asinine to say that somebody DESRVES wealth and fame because of their minute contribution to music. I'd love to know who the fuck made you judge and jury on that one buddy.

What's ultimately funny to me is that Ed now allows one of those "OBSESSED" fans you speak of to be his facebook admin. and fanboy street team promoter. So shut your fucking bag licker until you yourself are more qualified to judge what kind of person Ed is. You roast others for having no idea what kind of person he is but somehow find yourself qualified to say what kind of fame and wealth he deserves?

What a fucking joke