New Live? Options

[Pokey]

Out to Dry what you must understand is that Ed is never, ever, EVER at fault. He is like a beacon of light we should all aspire to be like. If only Jesus were still around he could learn a thing or 2 from Ed.

Hell if only Jesus were more like Ed he might still be alive! When Pontious Pilot gave Jesus the way out, asking him if he was really the son of God to save himself. Instead of "yes", a simple "that's a mischaracterization of me" would have gotten him off!

Fact is Ed is great and doesn't do anything wrong, right Nick? Now we've all agreed and you've won, surely you can go away now.

[SJN1279]

Out to Dry what you must understand is that Ed is never, ever, EVER at fault. He is like a beacon of light we should all aspire to be like. If only Jesus were still around he could learn a thing or 2 from Ed.

Hell if only Jesus were more like Ed he might still be alive! When Pontious Pilot gave Jesus the way out, asking him if he was really the son of God to save himself. Instead of "yes", a simple "that's a mischaracterization of me" would have gotten him off!

Fact is Ed is great and doesn't do anything wrong, right Nick? Now we've all agreed and you've won, surely you can go away now.

I never said that Ed didn't do anything wrong. I think he is of equal blame for the split.

[OutToDry]

Or basically how the music business works. A band may have a few years at the top, and it usually progresses downward from there as new bands emerge and take their place.

LIVE was able to hang on and tour much more successfully than many 90's bands from their era. I fear that the new LIVE incarnation will push the LIVE name down further down lower than most 90's bands currently touring.

You don't know jack shit about the music business.....nadda.

You fear......then get a dog.

[Pokey]

I never said that Ed didn't do anything wrong. I think he is of equal blame for the split.

So let's hear it then, in your eyes how is Ed to blame?

[OutToDry]

Out to Dry what you must understand is that Ed is never, ever, EVER at fault. He is like a beacon of light we should all aspire to be like. If only Jesus were still around he could learn a thing or 2 from Ed.

Hell if only Jesus were more like Ed he might still be alive! When Pontious Pilot gave Jesus the way out, asking him if he was really the son of God to save himself. Instead of "yes", a simple "that's a mischaracterization of me" would have gotten him off!

Fact is Ed is great and doesn't do anything wrong, right Nick? Now we've all agreed and you've won, surely you can go away now.

Praise Jesus!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aal7Tu4g-90

[SJN1279]

So let's hear it then, in your eyes how is Ed to blame?

I have no idea, but in breakups, it is almost always a two sided deal.

[Aitkens]

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just isn't the same!

[Pokey]

I have no idea, but in breakups, it is almost always a two sided deal.

I love how you have "no idea" based on everything that's come out, but you can make absolute statements like "CCP are only getting Live back together for money", which you've just based on nothing but your own assumptions and how your own mind works.

[SJN1279]

I love how you have "no idea" based on everything that's come out, but you can make absolute statements like "CCP are only getting Live back together for money", which you've just based on nothing but your own assumptions and how your own mind works.

You are basing iyour opinion on the stuff that has come out from one side of the argument. A side that later took back what they said. It is all up for litigation(unless it has been already settled).

[Pokey]

You are basing iyour opinion on the stuff that has come out from one side of the argument. A side that later took back what they said. It is all up for litigation(unless it has been already settled).

They didn't take back what they said, they took back that they said it in a public forum, which was your gripe to begin with. I'm basing it on like I say, the fact that it would be absolutely ridiculous and a waste of time and money to launch a law suit which was a fabrication, I'm basing it on talking to people much closer to the situation than you are, im basing it on the character Ed has shown on his own in regards to his professional life on show, im basing it on accounts of Ed's character like the infamous video interview and people's interactions with him, including my own, im basing it on his own hypocrisy such as touting the good Christian man. There is a whole array of things I'm basing it on, not just because CT said so, I'm not a blind sheep following.
It doesn't just come down to one thing.

And don't bother trying to dispute anything I mentioned above because we've been over it over and over. The real question is, and the one you've failed to answer - why are you still here? You've obviously got no desire to continue discussing and celebrating the Live of old which Ed was a part of, and you have no interest in Live 2.0, so...

[tiger]

I'm not sticking up for him so much as I am shutting you up. You and others are boneheads who hold Ed to 1995 standards, not me. You know that I'm someone who does not believe that Ed's potential was squandered. He can't rock now, and that is how it should be at his age. Nor am I dumb enough to believe that he made devious decisions just because some fans don't like his new direction, or that this unresolved lawsuit means that Ed isn't privy to, or doesn't deserve, certain compensation. Even if he was an asshole to the core, his music which spread to millions, is a blast of positive energy that will long outlive his personality. Ed deserves to be wealthy and famous till the day he dies for his fucking incredible contribution to rock. And as far as him being a nice guy, you probably don't know him at all. So what if he doesn't want to talk to an obsessed fan. If I was his manager, I would tell him to smile and wave at you, but keep a safe distance.

Age has nothing to do with his ability to compose or perform compelling rock songs. His voice has changed but he's still performing songs like white discussion today. The missing ingredient of course is 3/4 of the band that helped birth that song in the first place. Removing their influence is the biggest impact on his abilities to make great rock songs. Refer to BOP, SFBM,and Alive if you need to hear what Ed sounds like without their influence. Refer to everything before that to hear C,C and P's influence. Then refer to TGF to see what they are still capable of. Take a song like Zion or even Grace and tell me it could't be even better with contributions from C,C and P. Or take a listen to his god awful band performing WD and tell me that wouldn't be a million times better. Age has nothing to do with any of that, rather his ego getting in the way. Some like yourself think he's entitled because of "his" contributions. Others believe he had help achieving what he did. His track record seems to support that he had help.He'd be wise to realize that.

This post has been edited by tiger: Jul 27 2011, 11:27 pm

[Bremang]

Why would CCP even bother bringing the law suit against Ed if they didn't believe they had just cause.

Claims get filed which often seem like shots in the dark. CCP may have not been privy to the reasons why Ed and Levin had been doing everything legally. This lawsuit would at least force discovery. Ed and Levin both claim that they had not stolen anything. I could pose the same question to you and ask why Ed and Levin would say that they were acting in their legal right if it they didn't have just cause. Could Ed have really been so stupid as to steal in plain sight? There are plenty of potential scenario's here.

Before Live split people were seeing the cracks, Ed dominating the band, bereft of creativity, lots of reports of being rude with fans, whatever it is all those things add up and like it or not people are using a whole array of things to base their opinion of Ed on

These array of things people are using to base their opinion of Ed are often not well thought out.

-Chad has repeatedly said that Ed's "domination" was not contested, or at times consensual, and the fault of all the band members. This was combined with many other factors - record label crap, Ed's fading abilities, change in the music industry. This power struggle does not show to me that Ed was a bad to his bandmates or egotistical.

-Being bereft of creativity is how I see it, but not how Ed's current legions of fans see it. For the millionth time, creativity is just an opinion. And not something that should really be connected to whether or not Ed is a scoundrel.

-Yeah, I tend to give famous people leeway when it comes to interacting with fans. You never know who you're dealing with when some random person jumps up to you. Being rude to the fans is not cool but whatever, I'm personally fine with that. However, I really don't hear too many stories of Ed being bad to fans, and we never hear Ed's side of the story either.

Although the fact CT has had personal conversations with guys like OTD means he's in a much better position to comment.

ODT has been talking out his ass long before he claims to have snuck a few words in with whoever.

I don't get your fight for equality. I know you're neither for Ed or against Ed or for Nick or against Nick, it's like you're a super hero for neutral opinions.

I'm pro-rationalization - anti-bullshit. Not fighting for equality.

I think it's a shame someone so talented isn't pushing himself to be more creative like he's shown he is.

you never know. I saw him play in concert this year. I really don't think he has it in him to do much better anymore. He's got his cookie cutter show, and I think it suits him now.

[Bremang]

Age has nothing to do with his ability to compose or perform compelling rock songs.

foolish to say.

His voice has changed

that was basically one of the biggest problems, and affected his ability to rock

The missing ingredient of course is 3/4 of the band that helped birth that song in the first place. Removing their influence is the biggest impact on his abilities to make great rock songs. Refer to BOP, SFBM,and Alive if you need to hear what Ed sounds like without their influence. Refer to everything before that to hear C,C and P's influence. Then refer to TGF to see what they are still capable of. Take a song like Zion or even Grace and tell me it could't be even better with contributions from C,C and P. Or take a listen to his god awful band performing WD and tell me that wouldn't be a million times better. Age has nothing to do with any of that, rather his ego getting in the way. Some like yourself think he's entitled because of "his" contributions. Others believe he had help achieving what he did. His track record seems to support that he had help.He'd be wise to realize that.

-Nobody on this board has made a good ego argument yet.

-CCP's influence definitely seems to make Live songs better IMO. Doesn't mean Ed is good anymore, or would still make songs good if CCP had a greater influence. No, I don't think CCP could have turned Zion or Grace into good tracks. Ed's music was too shitty for CCP to fix. I believe Ed is entitled for for his contributions in the past and CCP are entitled for theirs.

[Pokey]

I'm over this for the day, but one way or the other I've brought up reasons for why I have made this decision that I feel are a lot more justified than Nick's "this is the way I think, so everyone must think this way" mentality. He's based his assumptions on CCPs motivations on nothing. Yes sometimes law suits are filed as a shot in the dark, sometimes but Bre the way it seems with you is that if there is .01% chance of things not being absolutely proven then you'd prefer people just shut the entire issue down. When is anything 100% certain. You sound like someone arguing about religion saying "well you can't prove God doesn't exist, so there for don't argue". I know that means I can't say 100% that Ed is in the wrong on all of this but I feel based on what is out there that signs point that way. The contrayer argument is just "well, maybe he's not to blame!".

You don't seem to have any stance at all other than we should just forget the whole thing. I'm by no means bias to one side over the other just because I prefer CCPs music to Eds, I don't see that as an issue so I'm being rational with my thoughts basing them on a clean slate, artistic merit aside.

[Bremang]

Ed still has potential to be great and get back to his roots.

You can't know this. But I strongly doubt it anyway. If anything, his voice is definitely gone.

Perhaps it's not what he wants, i am ok with that.

not OK enough with it to quit making accusations without enough backing it up

You can't deny his major personality change,
musical direction change,
taking all control from the other partners,
threats to leave,
new money split, stealing money thing....,
bad music, bad lyrics are a bad hypothesis to form?
Oh yeah, there's that irrevalancy of Live from 2001-2009.

This is your bag of shit in a nutshell. Figure it out.

I respect your high standards for Ed. What were they 10 years ago? Obsessed fandom like?

You have high standards for Ed, not me.

Always a huge live fan. Even though I was always initially disappointed with new Live releases after SS. They all took a while to sink in. BOP and SFBM never really got to me though.