Public school system in the USA Options

[PurdueSteve]

I actually am an administrator in my school district and work all 12 months. Always nice when people knock education though.

So that means you make 3 times (or more) what you're actually worth, and then pretend that because you "think" that you are educating kids, as opposed to creating authority worshippers, that you're actually earning your keep.

This is OT, but I really cannot stand the self-righteous nature of those in the public education system that act like they aren't a leech on society, but rather something virtuous. Here's a news flash Mr. Administrator, you and the rest of your ilk are doing a very poor job. I'm within my right to "knock" that, as I'm capable of observation and understanding.

Again, this is OT, but this is the character that you are. When you live day in and day out within a position wherein you do not measure success by success, but rather by how long you can keep the charade going, why else should anyone expect anything different when it comes to an honest opinion regarding Eddie K, TGF or Live. You've been formally trained to ignore truth. You've been paid to teach children the same thing and work within a system that ignores truth. You are a walking embodiment of the concepts of anti-brain, anti-reason and anti-mind. Not that you had any credibility before now, but in case you did linger on to a shred, it should now be considered lost. Who can believe a fucking word you say?

e: I won't regret this post in 5 years. I guarantee it.

[Edit: this thread was not created by PurdueSteve. I have moved the 'public school' discussion from the Ed has no plans to rejoin Live thread into this new topic. -dangum]

This post has been edited by dangum: Jul 13 2011, 11:01 pm

[SinfulEyes]

So that means you make 3 times (or more) what you're actually worth, and then pretend that because you "think" that you are educating kids, as opposed to creating authority worshippers, that you're actually earning your keep.

This is OT, but I really cannot stand the self-righteous nature of those in the public education system that act like they aren't a leech on society, but rather something virtuous. Here's a news flash Mr. Administrator, you and the rest of your ilk are doing a very poor job. I'm within my right to "knock" that, as I'm capable of observation and understanding.

Again, this is OT, but this is the character that you are. When you live day in and day out within a position wherein you do not measure success by success, but rather by how long you can keep the charade going, why else should anyone expect anything different when it comes to an honest opinion regarding Eddie K, TGF or Live. You've been formally trained to ignore truth. You've been paid to teach children the same thing and work within a system that ignores truth. You are a walking embodiment of the concepts of anti-brain, anti-reason and anti-mind. Not that you had any credibility before now, but in case you did linger on to a shred, it should now be considered lost. Who can believe a fucking word you say?

e: I won't regret this post in 5 years. I guarantee it.

[Sonic Tonic]

This doesn't apply to every song, and certainly not for the more recent releases from Live.

Perhaps some of you share this very same experience as me. Back in 2005, I sat in anticipation of the forthcoming album Songs from Black Mountain. I had read numerous interviews and articles where Ed stated, "rock fans and old-school Live fans will love this new album. It is classic Live and really rocks."

My friend and I had just finished watching a ball game and found out that some online streaming radio site was going to be playing their new single The River. I said to myself, "wow, that's a cool title for a new song. It definitely has a classic Live sound so maybe this will finally be what I've been waiting for since V and Birds of Pray." Boy was I wrong.

We all know how the song starts. A bunch of "la la las and da da das." We both laughed heartedly at another failed effort from Ed and turned it off. To this day, I cannot stand 90% of Sounds from Black Mountain. It is very sad that was their last official album release. It's sort of like a star player whose sun has set who doesn't know when to say good-bye and retire. Live was much better off closing shop after V even though that was a terrible album as well.

Anyways, all I can say is that there are plenty of things better than hearing a new song for the first time. Especially when it comes to post-TDTH Live songs.

I have a similar memory. I recall telling my bro that the new LIVE song is called The River. So subconsciously I guess my mind thought of songs like Pain lies on the Riverside and Feel the quiet river rage.
Anywho we were both excited and I remember the first time hearing it and I didn't laugh. That was the moment that I knew Live was dead to me.
This was strike 3. This was before anything about a hiatus or hints of problems. (or at least what I didn't know cause at the time Live was, as I've stated, just fading from my interests)
My bro laughed when I played the song for him later. His words "hahaha sorry bro but I think strike 3 for you lol)

I said F U but I agreed and laughed with him. Cause I thought ALL of Live wanted this.

So when the whole TGF thing showed up and I found out that only 1/4th of Live wanted to make sissypop, my excitement meter broke. And the first seconds of THE FEW I was hooked and here we are today.
Seen TGF in concert= amazing. album = Amazing. Crying Time = song that helped me through a very dark time of my life.
Yeah, I think I like TGF. Yeah i think the album is a success. But SNJ will never understand the type of success I'm thinking of. As do many others

This post has been edited by Sonic Tonic: Jul 13 2011, 5:21 pm

[SJN1279]

So that means you make 3 times (or more) what you're actually worth, and then pretend that because you "think" that you are educating kids, as opposed to creating authority worshippers, that you're actually earning your keep.

This is OT, but I really cannot stand the self-righteous nature of those in the public education system that act like they aren't a leech on society, but rather something virtuous. Here's a news flash Mr. Administrator, you and the rest of your ilk are doing a very poor job. I'm within my right to "knock" that, as I'm capable of observation and understanding.

Again, this is OT, but this is the character that you are. When you live day in and day out within a position wherein you do not measure success by success, but rather by how long you can keep the charade going, why else should anyone expect anything different when it comes to an honest opinion regarding Eddie K, TGF or Live. You've been formally trained to ignore truth. You've been paid to teach children the same thing and work within a system that ignores truth. You are a walking embodiment of the concepts of anti-brain, anti-reason and anti-mind. Not that you had any credibility before now, but in case you did linger on to a shred, it should now be considered lost. Who can believe a fucking word you say?

e: I won't regret this post in 5 years. I guarantee it.

I know for a fact that I've made a positive impact in a lot of my student's lives, and I truly care for their well being. My wife also is a teacher that really cares about her students and works her butt off to educate them. I also know a lot of teachers in my district(I would say the majority) who care and do the best job they can for their students.

You can post whatever you want about education, but I definitely disagree with putting all teachers in one lump sum.

[PurdueSteve]

I know for a fact that I've made a positive impact in a lot of my student's lives, and I truly care for their well being. My wife also is a teacher that really cares about her students and works her butt off to educate them. I also know a lot of teachers in my district(I would say the majority) who care and do the best job they can for their students.

You can post whatever you want about education, but I definitely disagree with putting all teachers in one lump sum.

Regardless of what kind of fluff you say, it's inarguable that the education system in this country is piss-poor. It's obvious, to anyone with a pulse, that the system isn't designed to educate. The proof is that you, and people just like you, refuse to accept that reality. You refuse to acknowledge that the system is broken and that it doesn't work. You refuse to accept the reality that the system is more about politics, political posturing, unions then it is about teaching children how to think and learn even simple concepts. The proof for this, is that when talking to someone like you, instead of responding with evidence to measurable success you say things like "I know for a fact that I've made a positive impact in a lot of my student's lives". Which isn't even remotely a statement regarding the quality of education that you have delivered them. That kind of statement, which probably comes as a knee-jerk reaction for you, is one that is designed so that one cannot respond with critique. Who in the right mind could say anything bad about a man that has had a positive impact on children? It's not politically correct and it's not nice. The truth is you're paid to educate and you're failing. You're failing miserably and you will continue to fail miserably until you actually educate people. Your job isn't to just have a positive impact but to educate.

For others, I know this is OT, but it really isn't as far OT as it seems at face value. This message board is so cluttered with the same repetitive arguments and they all lead back to Ned. His dominating presence combined with a now explainable allergy to logic, reason and reality is the reason for the clutter. I'm not qualified to speak on matters of psychology or whatever, but it would appear that most people (certainly myself included) cannot resist the urge to constantly correct a person who repeatedly denies the observable reality around them. Every single day people come behind him and correct his clearly wrong statements. Why? Maybe now that people know that Ned represents the exact opposite of thought and not only lacks the ability to see truth, but the ability to even seek it out, then maybe they will start ignoring him. His affliction goes much further than an irrational Eddie K love affair.

[SJN1279]

Regardless of what kind of fluff you say, it's inarguable that the education system in this country is piss-poor. It's obvious, to anyone with a pulse, that the system isn't designed to educate. The proof is that you, and people just like you, refuse to accept that reality. You refuse to acknowledge that the system is broken and that it doesn't work. You refuse to accept the reality that the system is more about politics, political posturing, unions then it is about teaching children how to think and learn even simple concepts. The proof for this, is that when talking to someone like you, instead of responding with evidence to measurable success you say things like "I know for a fact that I've made a positive impact in a lot of my student's lives". Which isn't even remotely a statement regarding the quality of education that you have delivered them. That kind of statement, which probably comes as a knee-jerk reaction for you, is one that is designed so that one cannot respond with critique. Who in the right mind could say anything bad about a man that has had a positive impact on children? It's not politically correct and it's not nice. The truth is you're paid to educate and you're failing. You're failing miserably and you will continue to fail miserably until you actually educate people. Your job isn't to just have a positive impact but to educate.

For others, I know this is OT, but it really isn't as far OT as it seems at face value. This message board is so cluttered with the same repetitive arguments and they all lead back to Ned. His dominating presence combined with a now explainable allergy to logic, reason and reality is the reason for the clutter. I'm not qualified to speak on matters of psychology or whatever, but it would appear that most people (certainly myself included) cannot resist the urge to constantly correct a person who repeatedly denies the observable reality around them. Every single day people come behind him and correct his clearly wrong statements. Why? Maybe now that people know that Ned represents the exact opposite of thought and not only lacks the ability to see truth, but the ability to even seek it out, then maybe they will start ignoring him. His affliction goes much further than an irrational Eddie K love affair.

I'm glad you are so concerned about the work I do. I do know that I work very hard for my students and have had numerous positive impacts on their lives. Do I have to document them for you? Absolutely not, because who are you to question me on my professional life in the first place?

I find the fact that you put all those who work in the education field into one negative catergory is short-sighted and a little bit sad.

[OutToDry]

Regardless of what kind of fluff you say, it's inarguable that the education system in this country is piss-poor. It's obvious, to anyone with a pulse, that the system isn't designed to educate. The proof is that you, and people just like you, refuse to accept that reality. You refuse to acknowledge that the system is broken and that it doesn't work. You refuse to accept the reality that the system is more about politics, political posturing, unions then it is about teaching children how to think and learn even simple concepts. The proof for this, is that when talking to someone like you, instead of responding with evidence to measurable success you say things like "I know for a fact that I've made a positive impact in a lot of my student's lives". Which isn't even remotely a statement regarding the quality of education that you have delivered them. That kind of statement, which probably comes as a knee-jerk reaction for you, is one that is designed so that one cannot respond with critique. Who in the right mind could say anything bad about a man that has had a positive impact on children? It's not politically correct and it's not nice. The truth is you're paid to educate and you're failing. You're failing miserably and you will continue to fail miserably until you actually educate people. Your job isn't to just have a positive impact but to educate.

For others, I know this is OT, but it really isn't as far OT as it seems at face value. This message board is so cluttered with the same repetitive arguments and they all lead back to Ned. His dominating presence combined with a now explainable allergy to logic, reason and reality is the reason for the clutter. I'm not qualified to speak on matters of psychology or whatever, but it would appear that most people (certainly myself included) cannot resist the urge to constantly correct a person who repeatedly denies the observable reality around them. Every single day people come behind him and correct his clearly wrong statements. Why? Maybe now that people know that Ned represents the exact opposite of thought and not only lacks the ability to see truth, but the ability to even seek it out, then maybe they will start ignoring him. His affliction goes much further than an irrational Eddie K love affair.

nice points.....the political angle in these education posts is too close to the truth.

Time to sping Public Affection 'Hands of A Teacher'............for the children who need teaching.....oh and do you remember the guy who wrote these lyrics? Perhaps about Ed's mom?

optimism
optimism perished from the face of my Earth
then you came along, came along and swept me away
she kissed me, as we stood on the edge
the night made the day as we made for the bridge
it started raining hard, and I saw we may live to regret

no I never really understood
no I never really understood why
'cause I've never been given
no, I've never been given two tries
no I never really understood
understood why

[/size]

pessimism
pessimism perished from the face of my Earth
then you came along, came along and swept me away
oh, did you miss me?
did you miss me as we walked through the pain
attached with chains so you could see me again
I started asking myself, did I teach you right?

no I never really understood
no I never really understood why
'cause I've never been given
'cause I've never been given two tries
no I never really understood
understood why

understood why
you came to me, you broke the bonds
you set me free
and then the love that you promised me
came a tumblin', tumblin', tumblin' down
into my hands

[size="1"]no I never really understood
no I never really understood why
'cause I've never been given
'cause I've never been given two tries
no I never really understood
understood why

so teacher, teach me
the hands of a teacher
teach me!

This post has been edited by OutToDry: Jul 13 2011, 7:32 pm

[shave98765]

So that means you make 3 times (or more) what you're actually worth, and then pretend that because you "think" that you are educating kids, as opposed to creating authority worshippers, that you're actually earning your keep.

This is OT, but I really cannot stand the self-righteous nature of those in the public education system that act like they aren't a leech on society, but rather something virtuous. Here's a news flash Mr. Administrator, you and the rest of your ilk are doing a very poor job. I'm within my right to "knock" that, as I'm capable of observation and understanding.

Again, this is OT, but this is the character that you are. When you live day in and day out within a position wherein you do not measure success by success, but rather by how long you can keep the charade going, why else should anyone expect anything different when it comes to an honest opinion regarding Eddie K, TGF or Live. You've been formally trained to ignore truth. You've been paid to teach children the same thing and work within a system that ignores truth. You are a walking embodiment of the concepts of anti-brain, anti-reason and anti-mind. Not that you had any credibility before now, but in case you did linger on to a shred, it should now be considered lost. Who can believe a fucking word you say?

e: I won't regret this post in 5 years. I guarantee it.

This is off-topic...but your statement is just ignorant. You are allowed to disagree with the American public school system. By all means send your children to private schools. But to judge somebody negatively just because they work in the public school system as teachers or administrators is just wrong. There are many people in public schools who have devoted their lives to helping children and creating better lives for them. I am a teacher in a public school, and while I do not always agree with everything that happens in public schools, I personally do my best to help kids. I spend many, many hours volunteering in my free time with after school programs. To say that you have no credibility because you work in our education system is just stupid.

Are there bad people working in our school system? Yes, definitely. But are there many people who do everything within their power to make students' lives better? Yes, definitely. There are many problems with our education system, but there are also a lot of people that work in the education spending countless hours trying to improve the system.

I have never met Nick. I disagree with many of his views, agree with some. But to blast somebody for having a career in education is just dumb. Maybe he is a horrible human being, maybe he isn't...but it is not because he is a school teacher or administrator.

[Aitkens]

I went the education route in college. I got out and realized just how much I hated our educational system. To me it was a wasted 5 years that I spent in college. Our education system is so fucked its not even funny. Till we rid this country of such retarded programs as "No Child Left Behind", we will never get back on track. The entire system is a sham, you aren't teaching, you're prepping a kid so that they can past a stupid standardized test. You're doing this because the better the school does on the test, the more funding the school district gets. If you don't get high enough scores, teachers lose their jobs. I still coach high school football, and that is enough time in the schools for me every week. I just can't deal with the complete bullshit and all of the red tape. It's not worth it. I wanted to teach, not play the political game and tip toe around administrators so that they can get their bonus and raise every year.

[OutToDry]

throws the N word into the room

[shave98765]

I went the education route in college. I got out and realized just how much I hated our educational system. To me it was a wasted 5 years that I spent in college. Our education system is so fucked its not even funny. Till we rid this country of such retarded programs as "No Child Left Behind", we will never get back on track. The entire system is a sham, you aren't teaching, you're prepping a kid so that they can past a stupid standardized test. You're doing this because the better the school does on the test, the more funding the school district gets. If you don't get high enough scores, teachers lose their jobs. I still coach high school football, and that is enough time in the schools for me every week. I just can't deal with the complete bullshit and all of the red tape. It's not worth it. I wanted to teach, not play the political game and tip toe around administrators so that they can get their bonus and raise every year.

This seems like a well-thought out opinion. It does not mean that I agree with it, but I can respect it. My problem is when people are attacked just for being part of the education system. There are tons of good people in the education system...and we all do not just "teach to the test." Most teachers I know hate that term, and fight against that on a regular basis.

I have no problem with people who make intelligent arguments about our education system, and how it may or may not be flawed. Just do not attack people based on the fact that they are teachers or administrators.

[PurdueSteve]

This is off-topic...but your statement is just ignorant. You are allowed to disagree with the American public school system. By all means send your children to private schools. But to judge somebody negatively just because they work in the public school system as teachers or administrators is just wrong. There are many people in public schools who have devoted their lives to helping children and creating better lives for them. I am a teacher in a public school, and while I do not always agree with everything that happens in public schools, I personally do my best to help kids. I spend many, many hours volunteering in my free time with after school programs. To say that you have no credibility because you work in our education system is just stupid.

Let's see here, there are comments about how people devote, how people do their best, how they volunteer their time, yet no comments regarding whether or not success is actually met.

Could you imagine if the barometer for every industry or sector regarded how people "tried" or "did their best" and not on performance? If you were to need heart surgery would you pick your doctor based upon how hard he "tries" or would you pick him based upon his record of success?

To you my comments seem foreign because your entire professional career rests within one were you'd likely have to molest a kid to get fired and were there isn't a measure a success, but rather how well you play the political game.

That said, my critique against Ned is more or less because he is an administrator. Those positions are typically reserved for those that know how to bullshit their way through the political component of public education and not for the ability to enlighten a child.

You have proven my point for me, you have responded exactly as I described in my previous post.

Are there bad people working in our school system? Yes, definitely. But are there many people who do everything within their power to make students' lives better? Yes, definitely. There are many problems with our education system, but there are also a lot of people that work in the education spending countless hours trying to improve the system.

Again more posturing and unoriginal talking points. I'm honestly not trying to be harsh, it's not my goal. I'm simply trying to point out that your response is essentially empty and fails to address the defacto point. I disgress because I don't have a significant bone with the teachers themselves. They, IMO, are a victim just like the children.

I have never met Nick. I disagree with many of his views, agree with some. But to blast somebody for having a career in education is just dumb. Maybe he is a horrible human being, maybe he isn't...but it is not because he is a school teacher or administrator.

I never made statements claiming that he was a horrible person. I knew that he was a teacher, him being an administrator is new to me. It's relevant because Ned has continuously shown that facts need not get in way of his wishful thinking when it comes down to the whole Ed/TGF issue. In learning that he has a career that rewards him for that very behavior, behavior that ignores truth and promotes spin and false perception, I've realized like I said above, that this is an affliction that goes beyond an irrational Eddie K love affair.

If it's not obvious I have a disdain for public education, and for the most part private education, because the public essentially controls it as well.

Of course I can choose to send my kid wherever, but that won't stop the goons with a badge from showing up at my doorstop with guns demanding that I continue to fund the charade of children prisoneducation system. There's tons of information out there if your interested in reading something that doesn't come from your Union leader, but I doubt you will because you seem quite busy patting yourself on your back for "trying really hard".

[OutToDry]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/01/a...its_charte.html

[shave98765]

Let's see here, there are comments about how people devote, how people do their best, how they volunteer their time, yet no comments regarding whether or not success is actually met.

Could you imagine if the barometer for every industry or sector regarded how people "tried" or "did their best" and not on performance? If you were to need heart surgery would you pick your doctor based upon how hard he "tries" or would you pick him based upon his record of success?

To you my comments seem foreign because your entire professional career rests within one were you'd likely have to molest a kid to get fired and were there isn't a measure a success, but rather how well you play the political game.

That said, my critique against Ned is more or less because he is an administrator. Those positions are typically reserved for those that know how to bullshit their way through the political component of public education and not for the ability to enlighten a child.

You have proven my point for me, you have responded exactly as I described in my previous post.
Again more posturing and unoriginal talking points. I'm honestly not trying to be harsh, it's not my goal. I'm simply trying to point out that your response is essentially empty and fails to address the defacto point. I disgress because I don't have a significant bone with the teachers themselves. They, IMO, are a victim just like the children.
I never made statements claiming that he was a horrible person. I knew that he was a teacher, him being an administrator is new to me. It's relevant because Ned has continuously shown that facts need not get in way of his wishful thinking when it comes down to the whole Ed/TGF issue. In learning that he has a career that rewards him for that very behavior, behavior that ignores truth and promotes spin and false perception, I've realized like I said above, that this is an affliction that goes beyond an irrational Eddie K love affair.

If it's not obvious I have a disdain for public education, and for the most part private education, because the public essentially controls it as well.

Of course I can choose to send my kid wherever, but that won't stop the goons with a badge from showing up at my doorstop with guns demanding that I continue to fund the charade of children prisoneducation system. There's tons of information out there if your interested in reading something that doesn't come from your Union leader, but I doubt you will because you seem quite busy patting yourself on your back for "trying really hard".

I am not going to sit here and argue with you back and forth about the merits of our system.

I know some very excellent teachers that are out looking for jobs, while there are many inadequate teachers with a job. Unfortunately that happens everywhere, in every profession. That does not make it right or any less frustrating.

Your comments are not foreign to me. These are things that I hear everyday on a regular basis.

I am not saying that we should be evaluated on a "how hard we try basis." That was never my statement or my claim. How we as teachers should be evaluated is a whole different argument that could be debated for days, and we would probably never eye to eye. I do not think our system is perfect now. I agree that we have many problems, and we are clearly behind the rest of the world in many areas.

I constantly read up on materials, not from my union, trying to find ways to make myself a better educator. I do not pat myself on the back for "trying really hard." Everyday when I get out of school I reflect upon my day...what I did well, what mistakes I made, where I can improve. I know what data is out there, I know that we need to do better.

I was simply stating that to call someone a "leech on society" or that they have "no credibility" because they work in the education system is just simply wrong. You are also stereotyping all people that work in the education system. Not all educators are bad. There are great teachers and great administrators out there. Are there also horrible ones? Yes, definitely. How do you evaluate educators? That's the million dollar question...I do not have a perfect answer for you.

You hate our education system, that fine. I get that. You are entitled to that. Nothing I say will change your mind on that.

[shave98765]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/01/a...its_charte.html

Very interesting article. Unfortunately, nepotism is very hard to prove and that statute would be difficult to enforce. More unfortunately, with education(as well as all professions), its too often the case where you get a job because of having connections.