Weird developements on Live's Facebook page Options

[Bremang]

I admit that Appetite charted higher than Grace, but where did it get them? Did it increase album sales or touring numbers in a major way? It costs money to get a song on the radio, and I would be that TGF spent a heck of a lot more on radio promotion than Ed did in the US. Ed basically made sure that "Grace" got played in mainly cities he was touring, but charting wasn't a focus. Appetite is doing okay on Mainstream rock, but that is a very small format and the song has little crossover appeal. The song already fell hard off the larger Active Rock chart.

They were numerous reports that TGF drew well under 100 people at a good number of their concerts in the US. Ed never had that problem. Did he draw Live numbers? Not even close, but he didn't have to drop ticket prices to 10 dollars just to a few people through the door.

As for albums, Alive charted slightly higher than The Gracious Few's debut in the US.

So other than paying for radio play in a small format, what did TGF achieve over Ed in the US?

If Ed has better sales or concerts in the US than TGF, what is your overall contention? That Ed's music is truly better? If so, no point in trying to prove that objectively, because it is just your subjective opinion. Same goes to the tgf fans. Just a little reminder, cause I love debate but I personally grow tired of this type of argument. Otherwise carry on.

[Bremang]

My consistency on that is unmatched.

Yea, can't find a TGF conversation on the internet without you plugging away. I wonder if that helps the band.

[Bremang]

I think it's a fairly obvious answer that some Ed-lovers like to overlook.

Look at how TGF and Ed's new work is received by previous and current fans. It's not even a close contest.

When I check facebook, both artists seem to have an equal number of fans. They're both on world tours, plenty of respect/ artistic acclaim/ support.

[SJN1279]

If Ed has better sales or concerts in the US than TGF, what is your overall contention? That Ed's music is truly better? If so, no point in trying to prove that objectively, because it is just your subjective opinion. Same goes to the tgf fans. Just a little reminder, cause I love debate but I personally grow tired of this type of argument. Otherwise carry on.

For me personally, Ed's music is much better than TGF's(what I've heard from TGF anyway). But you're right, it is just my opinion.

[Bremang]

For me personally, Ed's music is much better than TGF's(what I've heard from TGF anyway). But you're right, it is just my opinion.

Well then, ya know, there seems to be huge issues correlating sales to artistic talent in general. And then huge issues correlating artistic talent to who is truly better. What can we really say about TGF vs. Ed?

[OutToDry]

Albums sales were about equal in the US(with Ed slightly higher), and tourwise Ed has outdrawn TGF in 95 percent of markets at higher ticket prices.

I would say that Ed is having a better run than TGF in the US as well.

Come and give us some hard facts, produce the gross sheets. I know it's all about money for you. Plus we don't know the album sales other than the week 2 numbers from billboard when they both charted. After they dropped off the tp 200, we don't know. They were equal for roughly 2 week. I think the many who are signing up for tgf's facebook recently are saying they jus picked up the record. We'll revisit this one later.

[OutToDry]

Yea, can't find a TGF conversation on the internet without you plugging away. I wonder if that helps the band.

Wonder all you want, I've supported from day one and helped them be heard as others have been. Have you given any support to radio?

[SJN1279]

Come and give us some hard facts, produce the gross sheets. I know it's all about money for you. Plus we don't know the album sales other than the week 2 numbers from billboard when they both charted. After they dropped off the tp 200, we don't know. They were equal for roughly 2 week. I think the many who are signing up for tgf's facebook recently are saying they jus picked up the record. We'll revisit this one later.

You'll never know who sells more albums in the long run in the US. Most of Ed's albums sales are generated at shows and from his website. Neither are reported to soundscan.

So unless each artist posts the accurate overall sales figure, we'll never know.

[Bremang]

Wonder all you want, I've supported from day one and helped them be heard as others have been. Have you given any support to radio?

I appreciate how crafty you are. Lets turn the conversation to create competition on who can support TGF more. I don't care much for radio. But I would like to see em play in concert when I get the chance. But I say you're in every tgf convo to suggest that its kind of ridiculous as a fan, having to read you backing up every other tgf supporter. Its like 2 people talking instead of 1 so much of the time.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Feb 5 2011, 4:26 pm

[WaiterAtCliftons]

Most people don't even know of The Gracious Few album, and the album is far from critically acclaimed in the US. No major publication has bothered to review the new album, it is mainly just reviewed by random internet blogs.

Most reviews are positive, some middle of the road, some not great.

Here is a middle of the road review of the album:
http://thesodashop.wordpress.com/2011/01/1...e-gracious-few/

Most people don't even know who Ed Kowalczyk is anymore either. Even a lot of people that loved 90's grunge and alternative would probably not know him by name today.

And still show me the "not so great" reviews. I asked you to find a bad review, not middle of the road. If that review was the worst you could find on TGF I think that's hillarious. .

As for your boy you don't have to dig at all to find how well his album wasn't recieved.

http://rock.about.com/od/reviews/fr/EdKowa...AliveReview.htm
http://www.expressnightout.com/content/201...st-pavilion.php
http://www.decoymusic.com/reviews/ed-kowalczyk-alive
http://www.imjustgaying.com/2010/07/album-...zyks-alive.html

and my personal favorite
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/128555...owalczyk-alive/

Sad that was just the first page of a google search.

So I continue to go on with facts and actual reviews, and you can keep telling me stuff you can't back up. Please let's see all these numbers you have especially for their tour. I agree the beginging of the tour saw pretty small crowds, but they picked up the pace fast and furiously and ended strong.

Do you actually believe that Ed's music is good? I mean you were a fan of Live like I'm guessing all of us here, so you at least at one point had good taste. Especially if you were in before the BOP days. Just because you use to like someone doesn't mean you need to follow them into awfulness. But hey if you wanna jam out to something Christian pop be my guest. Just stop making up things about stuff you can't actually back up.

[WaiterAtCliftons]

You'll never know who sells more albums in the long run in the US. Most of Ed's albums sales are generated at shows and from his website. Neither are reported to soundscan.

So unless each artist posts the accurate overall sales figure, we'll never know.

So then stop acting like you know who has sold more albums. You don't have the smallest fuckin' clue. You wen't off of one billboard chart for each band, that really doesn't mean shit in overall numbers. You really do make yourself look like a dumbass you know that?

[Bremang]

Most people don't even know who Ed Kowalczyk is anymore either. Even a lot of people that loved 90's grunge and alternative would probably not know him by name today.

And still show me the "not so great" reviews. I asked you to find a bad review, not middle of the road. If that review was the worst you could find on TGF I think that's hillarious. .

As for your boy you don't have to dig at all to find how well his album wasn't recieved.

http://rock.about.com/od/reviews/fr/EdKowa...AliveReview.htm
http://www.expressnightout.com/content/201...st-pavilion.php
http://www.decoymusic.com/reviews/ed-kowalczyk-alive
http://www.imjustgaying.com/2010/07/album-...zyks-alive.html

and my personal favorite
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/128555...owalczyk-alive/

Sad that was just the first page of a google search.

So I continue to go on with facts and actual reviews, and you can keep telling me stuff you can't back up. Please let's see all these numbers you have especially for their tour. I agree the beginging of the tour saw pretty small crowds, but they picked up the pace fast and furiously and ended strong.

Do you actually believe that Ed's music is good? I mean you were a fan of Live like I'm guessing all of us here, so you at least at one point had good taste. Especially if you were in before the BOP days. Just because you use to like someone doesn't mean you need to follow them into awfulness. But hey if you wanna jam out to something Christian pop be my guest. Just stop making up things about stuff you can't actually back up.

Looks to me like you're right that Nick said stuff that he couldn't back up, as did you by saying that hardly anybody knows Ed Kowalczyk, and that even a lot of people that loved 90's grunge and alternative would probably not know him by name today. Seeing as how you claim to go by facts, which facts and standards do you use to prove something like that?

[SJN1279]

So I continue to go on with facts and actual reviews, and you can keep telling me stuff you can't back up. Please let's see all these numbers you have especially for their tour. I agree the beginging of the tour saw pretty small crowds, but they picked up the pace fast and furiously and ended strong.

They played to small crowds all the way through. Their show in NYC in November was canceled due to low ticket sales, and they had to join a different show with other bands. Their show at the small Stone Pony in NJ was moved to the very tiny Wonder Bar(also in November).

They played Sacramento the last week of their tour to maybe a 1/3 full house:
http://www.sacramentopress.com/headline/41...he_Gracious_Few

This despite charging about the same ticket price as most local coverbands.

This post has been edited by SJN1279: Feb 5 2011, 4:44 pm

[OutToDry]

I admit that Appetite charted higher than Grace, but where did it get them? Did it increase album sales or touring numbers in a major way? It costs money to get a song on the radio, and I would be that TGF spent a heck of a lot more on radio promotion than Ed did in the US. Ed basically made sure that "Grace" got played in mainly cities he was touring, but charting wasn't a focus. Appetite is doing okay on Mainstream rock, but that is a very small format and the song has little crossover appeal. The song already fell hard off the larger Active Rock chart.

They were numerous reports that TGF drew well under 100 people at a good number of their concerts in the US. Ed never had that problem. Did he draw Live numbers? Not even close, but he didn't have to drop ticket prices to 10 dollars just to a few people through the door.

As for albums, Alive charted slightly higher than The Gracious Few's debut in the US.

So other than paying for radio play in a small format, what did TGF achieve over Ed in the US?

I don't think they had a big radio budget if one at all. I do remember EMI kicking in something, but it wasn't much. Most of the radio support was from the fans. Kevin Martin did say they've played for as few as 7 people. Please go educate yourself on the reason for the 10 dollar tickets. It's listed here in the TGF Forum, TGF true stories. You flat out come with these falsehoods when the truth is on this board, you do this to start problems or simply are to lazy to do the research. And your take on which chart Appetite charts on (which is 3 charts), and has done well on all 3, is totally self serving and another weak arguement. Has Grace gotten this high in the US? I have to research it, so I won't make any claims. Appetite is still on Active Rock of the 2/5 chart. Please stop the lies. You are a sham




This post has been edited by OutToDry: Feb 5 2011, 4:44 pm

[WaiterAtCliftons]

They played to small crowds all the way through. Their show in NYC in November was canceled due to low ticket sales, and they had to join a different show with other bands. Their show at the small Stone Pony in NJ was moved to the very tiny Wonder Bar(also in November).

They played Sacramento the last week of their tour to maybe a 1/3 full house:
http://www.sacramentopress.com/headline/41...he_Gracious_Few

This despite charging about the same ticket price as most local coverbands.

Both acts are small venue acts. Sacramento may have been 1/3 full, how many people would that be? You claimed they always played shows under 100 people. That would mean that place only holds 300? Maybe it does I don't know. Until you provide facts that show actual numbers it's all just hearsay. I know both shows I went too had great crowds albeit they were both in PA and one being the Chameleon. So I won't comment on others, since I can't myself produce the facts.

In the end Ed will do to his solo career what he did to Live's. And TGF with the passion, soul and artistic talent they have will prove to be the bigger of the two. But of course that's just my humble opinon.