Upcoming shows professionally recorded! Options

[mattdm11]

It's not being organised here anymore, and no links are going to be posted here. settle down son.

I'm "settled down", champ. Don't take it out on me that your idea got poo-pooed by Dan.

[Pokey]

I'm "settled down", champ. Don't take it out on me that your idea got poo-pooed by Dan.

My idea didn't get poo-pooed by Dan as my idea was never to post public links up for anyone and everyone to download at will who hadn't already bought their own copy. Dan was making sure that FOL stays out of the firing line when stuff happens, and that's fair enough. I think you jumped the gun a little bit on this one here, champ.

This post has been edited by Pokey: Nov 22 2010, 8:37 pm

[+Ed+]

All I can say is that it is a grand idea and if I only had a card, which is for me still impossible to get, I would definitely get them all.

[zmanpga]

what happened to a VID they made at the TLA and said they were using it????

[+Ed+]

It'll become the official Appetite sooner or later

[FishOutaWater]

I don't want to make enemies here, but I think that anyone who trades these recordings that have been commercially produced and sold, or conspires to do it, is a dick. This band, that everyone supposedly loves, has arranged at their own expense to have their shows professionally recorded, mixed, packaged, distributed and sold so they can make a little money for their signifancant efforts. It was probably done as a grant to requests from fans. I don't think they are making much money from the modest cd sales of this album or the $10 tickets at venues with 150 people in them. Heck, when they reduced ticket prices from $20 to $10, they gave away a free T-shirt and personally autographed poster to everyone who bought a ticket for $20. They're are 5 members in the band. They are touring around the country and to Europe. They have a tour bus, tour crew, tour manager. I know they love this and they are having a good time, but what does everyone think the economics of this look like? I am guessing that they aren't pocketing much for all of this time and effort and trips away from their families. I for one, wish to support a band that has given me so much excitement and enjoyment. I am going to buy as many of these concert recordings as I can, and I'm not going to take a free download from anybody. Besides the fact that it is illegal, it is also direspectful to the band and, in my opinion, a dick-move to steal these recording or illegally distribute them for free. Do you think that they want to go to all the trouble of putting these cd's out into the market place so that their own hard-core fans can each buy one and them swap the rest for free? They obviously want to sell these. I wouldn't steal from my worst enemy, let alone my favorite band that I love and admire.

Now I'm off my soap box. Please feel free to take reputation points away from me for offending everyone.

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Nov 23 2010, 9:49 am

[Pokey]

I don't want to make enemies here, but I think that anyone who trades these recordings that have been commercially produced and sold, or conspires to do it, is a dick. This band, that everyone supposedly loves, has arranged at their own expense to have their shows professionally recorded, mixed, packaged, distributed and sold so they can make a little money for their signifancant efforts. It was probably done as a grant to requests from fans. I don't think they are making much money from the modest cd sales of this album or the $10 tickets at venues with 150 people in them. Heck, when they reduced ticket prices from $20 to $10, they gave away a free T-shirt and personally autographed poster to everyone who bought a ticket for $20. They're are 5 members in the band. They are touring around the country and to Europe. They have a tour bus, tour crew, tour manager. I know they love this and they are having a good time, but what does everyone think the economics of this look like? I am guessing that they aren't pocketing much for all of this time and effort and trips away from their families. I for one, wish to support a band that has given me so much excitement and enjoyment. I am going to buy as many of these concert recordings as I can, and I'm not going to take a free download from anybody. Besides the fact that it is illegal, it is also direspectful to the band and, in my opinion, a dick-move to steal these recording or illegally distribute them for free. Do you think that they want to go to all the trouble of putting these cd's out into the market place so that their own hard-core fans can each buy one and them swap the rest for free? They obviously want to sell these. I wouldn't steal from my worst enemy, let alone my favorite band that I love and admire.

Now I'm off my soap box. Please feel free to take reputation points away from me for offending everyone.

I respectfully disagree. I do want to pay for these recordings. I do. But I also want them all and can't afford them. It mentions there will only be a limited amount that will be made unlike the pixies one for example who are a much more popular band and have recordings up there dating back a year still available. I think everyone that wants one should buy their own copy no doubt but at $25 each Inc postage that's $200. So i will be getting my own copy, it'll be a stab in the dark as to which one, but I'll get one. 
If they were available via mp3 or at least had samples then maybe I'd just get the one show after determining which recording I preferred like Ed did with his online recordings. And like his that each show would have it's differences in quality. This is also something more intended for those who can go to these shows as a memory of their night. I can't go to these shows (nor will I to any tgf show for a long time as I have a strong feeling I'll be living overseas when they come here next year) so yeah I'm being greedy and want to have it all but not for $200, but not for nothing either. 

For those to disagree that's fine, dealings will be done privately for those who have agreed. I don't think it should bring anyones fan status into question though. I dont see what the big deal really is, I can't imagine getting worked up over this, but anyways. 
I don't think this is exactly taking food from their table. They don't work extra for each copy that is sold. If no one orders a copy that is obtained via trading then it doesn't get made and printed up and sent out so they probably don't lose money, just lost the ability to make more. If these were mp3 and I had a way of sampling which recording was my favorite then I would in all honesty only really buy one show for download and leave it at that because id really only listen to one best recording. So either way I only buy one copy. But the way it's done like I mentioned it's impossible to do that. And if you wait till theyre all out for reviews then it could be too late by the sounds of it. 
So either way I'm content to be a heathen, or a dick or whatever it makes me. 

This post has been edited by Pokey: Nov 23 2010, 11:57 am

[OutToDry]

I support you Fish. This whole project is on their dime. I'll support in buying the ones I want.

[Pokey]

I support you Fish. This whole project is on their dime. I'll support in buying the ones I want.

How do you know which ones you want until youve bought and heard them?

[SctSamadhi]

I don't want to make enemies here, but I think that anyone who trades these recordings that have been commercially produced and sold, or conspires to do it, is a dick. This band, that everyone supposedly loves, has arranged at their own expense to have their shows professionally recorded, mixed, packaged, distributed and sold so they can make a little money for their signifancant efforts. It was probably done as a grant to requests from fans. I don't think they are making much money from the modest cd sales of this album or the $10 tickets at venues with 150 people in them. Heck, when they reduced ticket prices from $20 to $10, they gave away a free T-shirt and personally autographed poster to everyone who bought a ticket for $20. They're are 5 members in the band. They are touring around the country and to Europe. They have a tour bus, tour crew, tour manager. I know they love this and they are having a good time, but what does everyone think the economics of this look like? I am guessing that they aren't pocketing much for all of this time and effort and trips away from their families. I for one, wish to support a band that has given me so much excitement and enjoyment. I am going to buy as many of these concert recordings as I can, and I'm not going to take a free download from anybody. Besides the fact that it is illegal, it is also direspectful to the band and, in my opinion, a dick-move to steal these recording or illegally distribute them for free. Do you think that they want to go to all the trouble of putting these cd's out into the market place so that their own hard-core fans can each buy one and them swap the rest for free? They obviously want to sell these. I wouldn't steal from my worst enemy, let alone my favorite band that I love and admire.

Now I'm off my soap box. Please feel free to take reputation points away from me for offending everyone.

I agree with you 100%. Downloading show boot legs and sharing professional recordings is not the same thing. For all this band has already given us the least I can do is give them $20 back for each show I want. Chance are I'll probably order all of them. I realize some people may not have the money to be able to do this but then purchase what you can afford.

I'd like to own a BMW but guess what I can't afford it. Doesn't mean i'm going to go steal one off the streets just because I don't have the money to buy one. Trading these shows is just ripping off the band and a total dick move. We should be gracious the band has given people this opportunity and not take advantage of it. If you can only afford one cd then buy one cd.

[zmanpga]

Ill pay..no freebies..SUPPORT THE BAND!

[+Ed+]

ok kids, what do you tell ME to do? I CAN NOT pay. I do NOThave a credit card. I can NOT get a credit card. I wonder if ANY of you give me ANY sollution or simply not notice my words?

[FishOutaWater]

I respectfully disagree. I do want to pay for these recordings. I do. But I also want them all and can't afford them.  

No offense, but do you realize how ridiculous this sounds?

I want a Porsche. I do. But I also can't afford one. So I will steal one from the dealership because it's not fair that I can't have a Porsche and I want one.

Here is a little lesson in property law.

There is real property. That's real estate.

There is personal property. That is stuff like chairs and tables and paintings.

There is intangible property. That is stuff like brokerage accounts and stocks and bonds.

There is intellectual property. Those are things like patents, trademarks, and copyrights.



TGF owns intellectual property when they create and perform music. They own the publishing rights to the songs. They own their image and likeness. They own the band logo. They own the recordings. That is their property. Just because you can't take it from a shelf and walk out of a store with it doesn't make it any less property. And taking it for free doesn't make it any less stealing. THIS IS THE WHOLE BASIS OF THE LAWSUIT WITH ED KOWALCZYK! Think about for a second! You can't call Ed a dick for what he did with the publishing rights and secret publishing contracts and selling performances of Live songs on his website without paying royalties to the owners (the rest of the band) and say that was wrong, and then a few weeks later steal copyrighted music from The Gracious Few because you want it and you can't afford to pay for it. You are doing the same damn thing that Ed did. You are stealing property. If you can't afford it, then you don't get it. That's how the sale of property works.

I'm sure this comes across as harsh. And for that, I am really sorry. But I just want to get my point across strongly.

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Nov 23 2010, 1:20 pm

[FishOutaWater]

Yikes, I must have made people mad. This thread just died after my last post.

I'm sorry. I really wasn't trying to be mean about it.

[live2cd]

you guys are getting extremely worked up over this....

how many people do you honestly think are going to burn and trade the entire leg of the tour? what... 5 of us? 6 of us? do you think thats going to financially hurt a band who wants nothing more than for us to get the music out? weve already bought multiple copies of the record and will be buying 1 or 2 of these recordings as well.

Trust me, if this was going to significantly impact the bands financial income, i wouldnt be doing it. afterall, its the same show over and over again with different words from kevin in between songs.

i know one thing, at $20 apiece im in no way buying more than 1 copy. if they were more moderately priced, i might consider 2 or 3.

everyones allowed their opinion and i respect that, but comparing some live burned CD-Rs of TGF to a BMW is pushin' it just a little, dontcha think?

in closing, i kind of wish this was not an option, because it just turns people against eachother. which is why PJ allows the trading, they arent idiots, they know the people who collect the tours are their most passionate fans, etc. I would have rather have TGF record ONE show on the west coast, properly mix it and release it, instead of MULTIPLE shows on-the-fly, which just causes us to get mad at eachother.

this is why i love fan made audience recordings lol

This post has been edited by live2cd: Nov 23 2010, 5:03 pm