Ed's Bootlegs (inc. Supreme Court summons), not so legal after all? Options

[thefunkyredcaboose]

Well 25000 to each member was given, and Ed's statement claims that he had no obligation to do that.

And it said Levin offered to not charge CCP.

I don't think there is any way to know without seeing the contract. That is one of the more interesting parts of this case.

[OutToDry]

I don't think C & C & P's claims sound exaggerated one bit. I think they held their tongues for long enough. Time for the attorneys to decide who is owed and how much.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

You don't seem to realize that it isn't necessarily Ed or what he's saying.

Plus, if you think of songwriter in the singer songwriter sense, it seems fairly accurate. He does say that they are song writers in some limited exceptions, but in general it is not their bag, doesn't seem waaay far off to me.

Whether or not they are "songwriters" would be defined by the contracts that we don't have. It is impossible to know the context otherwise.

Given the two briefs it is reasonable to assume that Live's original contracts gave them all credit as "songwriters" while the 2005 contract did not. Since this whole beef is over the legitimacy of that contract, then it is understandable that Ed's response would not label them as "songwriters."

I don't think that was a personal shot, at least as far as this brief is concerned.

[OutToDry]

somebody check - what is that website that has legal docs listed??? smoking gun?

[jclive]

somebody check - what is that website that has legal docs listed??? smoking gun?

I remember seeing a Live tour rider on there a LONG time ago..

[Bremang]

Still gotta love how everyone who loves Ed's music see's him as a non guilty party. I'd love to see someone say they think his music is great but he's a complete ass for this whole thing. I don't think it works so much the other way, i'd say Fish is probably one of the most unbias people on the board and even he can smell the roses.

The whole "lets not bring Ed's interviews and spirituality into the picture here, this is legal stuff!" is bullshit and just a cop out way of circumventing the point that a few people are making that they believe Ed is a shitheel. It may not have anything directly to do with the legal stuff, but it still ties in in a broader way and that fact that it seems so contradictory is why people question it. I've seen people who support Ed here throw things around like "people have already just taken sides here", the fact that Ed has gone on talking about the brotherhood and could never make it without the boys and how they're different from so many other bands because they are a cohesieve unit and then come out with shit like this which is basically a slap in the face to the other 3 for the help they've given Ed to be able to enjoy the life he has now ... these are reasons some of us are taking sides. We're not pulling things out of our asses, we're basing this on information available and making our own choice into how we see this.

The whole "but you dont know that for sure!!" is bullshit, if no one could form an opinion on something without knowing absolutely 100% sure of every detail then we'd have very few opinions around. You could easily say that you guys don't know 100% for sure that Ed is innocent of everything so forming an opinion to give him the benefit of the doubt is just as mute.
You can argue the innocent until proven guilty, in the eyes of the law that's true. But a lot of people here have had a sour taste in their mouth from Ed a long time before any legal stuff popped up so regardless of whether hes proven innocent or guilty i doubt that will change.

There are very few on this board who love Eds new music (I sure don't), so that's probably not a large enough distribution to conclude anything about a group as seeing Ed as not guilty.

Everyone saying that Ed is a shitheel in this recent leg of the discussion has been in reaction or response to his court response. I don't see anyone who decided to hate on Ed here not in a general sense without relating specifically to the rebuttal.

In regards to taking sides, the main thing that some members of the board might have been opposed to in regards to negative views on Ed in relation to the rebuttal has been the idea that Ed didn't necessarily write it, and both sides may have been exaggerating. Not the situation you describe.

To bring up all of Ed's brotherhood talk is retrospective, to say this is a slap in the face to the band doesn't consider everything leading up to this point or again the fact that it isn't necessarily Ed's voice.

In this case, not knowing something for sure is very relevant as the opposing sides contrast immensely.

There is an overwhelming amount of talk which hates on Ed which neither specific, and often irrational. I hardly hear someone talk bad about Ed that doesn't state anything more than simple name calling, or saying that he screwed over the guys. Very little of it comes from actual knowledge of what has transpired. Such a little amount of the Ed hating has been debated rationally to the point of conclusion.

I disagree also in that I hadn't seen a good deal of Ed hating until the breakup/legal issues. People were mostly hopeful.

[Pokey]

There is an overwhelming amount of talk which hates on Ed which neither specific, and often irrational. I hardly hear someone talk bad about Ed that doesn't state anything more than simple name calling, or saying that he screwed over the guys. Very little of it comes from actual knowledge of what has transpired. Such a little amount of the Ed hating has been debated rationally to the point of conclusion.

I disagree also in that I hadn't seen a good deal of Ed hating until the breakup/legal issues. People were mostly hopeful.

Very little comes from knowledge of what transpired because not all of it has to do with this court case. People have been disgruntled with Ed since SFBM and some before. About his sharp decline in creativity and his direction. In his attitude towards meeting certain fans, in just his overall demenor. These things have been debated rationally and it always comes down to people going "well that's your opinion" and so around in circles we go.

This whole thing to so many people is just something that by this stage is almost not surprising and seemingly is fitting like a hand into a glove with the sort of person a lot of people saw Ed becoming.

As far as people saying "but Ed didn't write it!!" just seems like another cop out or excuse for him. Of course he didn't write it, but you can't tell me it wouldn't have been run past him or that what was going to be said wasn't discussed with him. Saying he didn't actually write it shouldn't absolve him from critiscim. His lawyer is his representative, his mouthpiece, if he didn't want things like this said it wouldn't be said. Maybe it wasn't even his idea to take this direction, who knows, whether it was or it wasn't, he still had a hand in it and could have put a block on it if he wished.

[Merica]

You don't seem to realize that it isn't necessarily Ed or what he's saying.

Surely it should be Ed or what Ed would say if it WERE him.

And regardless, whoever wrote it - it doesn't matter - it serves to make him come off very poorly.

[jclive]

Surely it should be Ed or what Ed would say if it WERE him.

And regardless, whoever wrote it - it doesn't matter - it serves to make him come off very poorly.

Sounds to me like a man defending himself against 3 others who may be accusing him of something that he didn't actually do.

[Pokey]

Sounds to me like a man defending himself against 3 others who may be accusing him of something that he didn't actually do.

Sounds to me like a man desperately clutching at anything to keep himself afloat whilst the ship sinks.

I've brought up the point before that when this whole thing came out a lot of us wern't surprised and it fit straight into what we were seeing Ed become. Before this I never saw anyone have a problem with CCP in any way ... why people think now out of the blue they'd turn on their best friend and accuse him of something he never did is beyond me. If in the lead up people were disgruntled with any one of CCP maybe I could see it making sense. But do you not see that as much as you are saying that people who are condemming Ed are being ridiculous cos "we dont know" that you to us look exactly the same because you're basing your defence of him on nothing at all. At least a lot of the people who think badly of Ed because of this were also seeing signs earlier.
As early as times in 2005 I can recall myself and others saying that it appears that Ed is taking over the band.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

I've brought up the point before that when this whole thing came out a lot of us wern't surprised and it fit straight into what we were seeing Ed become. Before this I never saw anyone have a problem with CCP in any way ... why people think now out of the blue they'd turn on their best friend and accuse him of something he never did is beyond me. If in the lead up people were disgruntled with any one of CCP maybe I could see it making sense. But do you not see that as much as you are saying that people who are condemming Ed are being ridiculous cos "we dont know" that you to us look exactly the same because you're basing your defence of him on nothing at all. At least a lot of the people who think badly of Ed because of this were also seeing signs earlier.
As early as times in 2005 I can recall myself and others saying that it appears that Ed is taking over the band.

Ding ding ding we have a winner.

[FishOutaWater]

All I know is this. I started out enjoying Live's music and it formed a soundtrack to parts of my life. But more than that, Ed's message, and Ed as a messenger, were so personal and powerful and spiritual, that I began to take it to heart and look up to Ed for personal inspiration. Live's music didn't just have a nice beat that you can dance to. It wasn't just there to entertain. It was deeply personal and moving and, at times, tried to change the world and change the listener. And it helped me. I learned alot. I grew as a person because of it. I explored new avenues that were hinted at in the lyrics.

And the concert experience was communal and moving. There is nothing like standing toward the front of a general admission crowd, with 4 beers in my bloodstream, sweat pouring down my face, my ears ringing, singing TSFL or White Discussion along with that band on stage doing what they used to do together. That experience can't be matched. I may never have it again. I drove a long way and lost a lot of sleep for that experience. For me, Live isn't business and it wasn't just music. The concerts and the cd's became a more personal experience.

But now I have disappointment. Towards the last few years, I've seen some behind the scenes dynamics and I formed a negative impression of Ed and very positive impressions of CCP. I've had personal observations and experiences with Ed that were negative and many with CCP that were only positive. I am familiar with the trajectory of Live's music and who was at the helm when the creative ship went down like the titanic.

I feel betrayed by the Ed that I have seen and the Ed we are all seeing now. Both musically and personally. I had a higher standard for Ed than for other singers. I could care less if Chris Cornell tried to get a bigger share of Audio Slave's publishing or makes a shitty solo album. But with Ed I feel like a Tibetan Buddhist who just found out that the Dalli Lama is actually a plumber named Ralph from Cleveland Ohio who likes hot wings and Budweiser and sleeping with his sister-in-law on the weekends. And I also feel like a Chicago Bulls fan who watched Michael Jordon go from the greatest basketball player who ever lived to an out of shape hack who couldn't make it down the court without getting out of breath and could no longer hit the backboard with the ball - while he was still supposed to be int he prime of his life! Yet I can't quit Ed. I hold out hope that he will come back from whatever strange trip he has been on, and I'll be waiting to hear some new inspiring Live music.

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Aug 25 2010, 4:02 pm

[sh4rpz]

Sounds to me like a man desperately clutching at anything to keep himself afloat whilst the ship sinks.

I've brought up the point before that when this whole thing came out a lot of us wern't surprised and it fit straight into what we were seeing Ed become. Before this I never saw anyone have a problem with CCP in any way ... why people think now out of the blue they'd turn on their best friend and accuse him of something he never did is beyond me. If in the lead up people were disgruntled with any one of CCP maybe I could see it making sense. But do you not see that as much as you are saying that people who are condemming Ed are being ridiculous cos "we dont know" that you to us look exactly the same because you're basing your defence of him on nothing at all. At least a lot of the people who think badly of Ed because of this were also seeing signs earlier.
As early as times in 2005 I can recall myself and others saying that it appears that Ed is taking over the band.

[OutToDry]

I saw Ed taking over in 2000 (mid to late).......been trying to accept the reasons for change up until 2005, then, that it was for me..........they've run aground over with a blind drunk captain.

[sh4rpz]

All I know is this. I started out enjoying Live's music and it formed a soundtrack to parts of my life. But more than that, Ed's message, and Ed as a messenger, were so personal and powerful and spiritual, that I began to take it to heart and look up to Ed for personal inspiration. Live's music didn't just have a nice beat that you can dance to. It wasn't just there to entertain. It was deeply personal and moving and, at times, tried to change the world and change the listener. And it helped me. I learned alot. I grew as a person because of it. I explored new avenues that were hinted at in the lyrics.

And the concert experience was communal and moving. There is nothing like standing toward the front of a general admission crowd, with 4 beers in my bloodstream, sweat pouring down my face, my ears ringing, singing TSFL or White Discussion along with that band on stage doing what they used to do together. That experience can't be matched. I may never have it again. I drove a long way and lost a lot of sleep for that experience. For me, Live isn't business and it wasn't just music. The concerts and the cd's became a more personal experience.

But now I have disappointment. Towards the last few years, I've seen some behind the scenes dynamics and I formed a negative impression of Ed and very positive impressions of CCP. I've had personal observations and experiences with Ed that were negative and many with CCP that were only positive. I am familiar with the trajectory of Live's music and who was at the helm when the creative ship went down like the titanic.

I feel betrayed by the Ed that I have seen and the Ed we are all seeing now. Both musically and personally. I had a higher standard for Ed than for other singers. I could care less if Chris Cornell tried to get a bigger share of Audio Slave's publishing or makes a shitty solo album. But with Ed I feel like a Tibetan Buddhist who just found out that the Dalli Lama is actually a plumber named Ralph from Cleveland Ohio who likes hot wings and Budweiser and sleeping with his sister-in-law on the weekends. And I also feel like a Chicago Bulls fan who watched Michael Jordon go from the greatest basketball player who ever lived to an out of shape hack who couldn't make it down the court without getting out of breath and could no longer hit the backboard with the ball - while he was still supposed to be int he prime of his life! Yet I can't quit Ed. I hold out hope that he will come back from whatever strange trip he has been on, and I'll be waiting to hear some new inspiring Live music.

This is exactly how I feel and you have put it perfectly!

Again, I didn't want to be someone who takes 'sides' here, but like Pokey stated above, once all this came to light, it wasn't really surprising to discover what was going on behind the scenes concerning Ed especially.