LIVE vs. the perception of SFBM Options

[FishOutaWater]

Please point me to these layers of creativity. I cannot find a single moment on the album. I do not see how knowledge of these 'wisdom teachings' would affect your perception of lyrics on this album. No matter what way you look at them, they're simple, cheesy, and actually quite embarrasing to listen to.

You reinforce my point with your very inability to see anything interesting in this album and the fact that you can't understand how an appreciation of the concepts of nonduality, the infinite love of "Big Mind", and the manner in which looking deeply at the world "like a Buddha sitting in a chair" and resting in the present moment, informed by the infinite consciousness, can possibly add to your appreciation of the album.

It's all about paradigms. If you approach this album from one paradigm you will get a totally differnt experience from the album than experiencing it from a different paradigm.

My point is that if you read some books by Ken Wilber, Jiddu Krishnamurti, the yoga sutras of Patanjali, Thich Nhat Hanh, the Dali Lhama, many other books on Dharma wisdom, read the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, experience Big Mind by Genpo Roshi and then listen to the album again, you might gain some insight into what some of these lyrics describe below the surface. If you haven't seen spiruality from the paradigm from which some of those Eastern spiritual tradtions come from, you might not get the same thing from the album.

There are an infinite number of paradigms, as many as life experiences can offer. Accounting for all of these paradigms is taking an "integral" approach. I am just suggesting that if you were to have a background and understanding in some of the spirituality that actually inspired some of these songs, they might mean something more to you.

I'm not trying to say that Ed is a guru or that this album should only be accessible to a spiritually enlightened being. I'm saying that it is common knowledge that Ed writes about this stuff. He has for years and he makes no secret about it. He has read and studied a lot and his lyrics are infused with an understanding and experience of deep spiritual principles and like good poetry, they convey a message on several levels about love, peace, happiness and the oneness of all things. There really aren't any other songwriters out there right now that do that. It's pretty amazing stuff.

[Pokey]

It's something about the thought of a 34 year old man dancing around singing "ooohhhh so I give you my love, it's all that I have to give!", "you get what you get with me girl", "my love is here to stay" and of course "Show a little love to me, i'll show you free tonight"

These are just a few lines and of course someone will jump out saying "but pokey, you're taking them out of context LOL" .. the fact is these are incredibly lame, cheesey lyrics you'd expect from a boy band who've just turned 18 .. not a man who has provided us with years of beautifuly amazing lyrics such as Ed has.

There is just nothing profound about anything being said on this album, and if it is then it's an extremely watered down children's book version. Seriously kid's books can have nice messages to them but the way they are delivered is well, for children. That is pretty much where SFBM seems to be from, hell one of the songs IS written for children and the rest is no different from it.

You can go on about the beauty in the simplicity of the lyrics, and ok here and there, there are a nice couple of lines but besides that's about it.

Going into reading all these books and getting "insight" into the lyrics is kinda nuts, the lyrics are so simple you don't need any sort of insight to them. There isn't anything on this album that makes me think, or challenges me .. and I'm certainly not the smartest guy in the world so it shouldn't be too hard to do that, but it doesn't. The thing is, looking at all of Ed's interviews is like a complete contradiction .. he goes off on these tangents and people don't know WTF .. when you see things he's written even though I think it's a bunch of pompous crap, it at least sounds interesting. But then when he sits down to write it just turns into "ooo baby, stay with me tonight, girl you'll be alright!" ... I know that isn't one of the lyrics, but it might as well be. As Ed himself has said, these songs are mostly inspired by women, it's a album written by Ed's penis.

[FishOutaWater]

It's something about the thought of a 34 year old man dancing around singing "ooohhhh so I give you my love, it's all that I have to give!", "you get what you get with me girl", "my love is here to stay" and of course "Show a little love to me, i'll show you free tonight"

These are just a few lines and of course someone will jump out saying "but pokey, you're taking them out of context LOL" .. the fact is these are incredibly lame, cheesey lyrics you'd expect from a boy band who've just turned 18 .. not a man who has provided us with years of beautifuly amazing lyrics such as Ed has.

I have to agree with you there. I think there are some silly, sophmoric lines in the songs. I don't really care for Ed's hip-wiggling dance while he rubs his belly when they play the new songs in concert. I really don't like Show, or Mystery and I'm sorry those are the songs the band has chosen to play in concert. I agree that the meaning of the lyrics in Love Shines are straightforward, but I think they are beautiful and I really like the song. And The River lack balls, but I like it and think it's catchy.

But I think that there have been some corny lines on many of the albums. I think Secret Smadhi is full of them. Hunting deer... puke stinks like beer... merica has dropped her load. I could go on and on. Many lines on TDTH are straight forward. They Stood Up For Love is a fantastic song, but there aren't any double meanings to the lyrics - they say what they mean but they are beautiful - and the music is no more complex than Where Do We Go From Here or All I Need. I think people are being too hard on this album. I think it is really much better than BoP and on par with TDTH as far as the lyrics and music are concerned. I think people on this site who criticize SFBM are being closed-minded and biased by their own preconceptions, without even realizing it. If TDTH came out right now, and you had never heard it before, and it was produced by Jim Wirt, I think a lot of people on this site would say it absolutely sucks and it is silly.

[serene23]

It's something about the thought of a 34 year old man dancing around singing "ooohhhh so I give you my love, it's all that I have to give!", "you get what you get with me girl", "my love is here to stay" and of course "Show a little love to me, i'll show you free tonight"

These are just a few lines and of course someone will jump out saying "but pokey, you're taking them out of context LOL" .. the fact is these are incredibly lame, cheesey lyrics you'd expect from a boy band who've just turned 18 .. not a man who has provided us with years of beautifuly amazing lyrics such as Ed has.

There is just nothing profound about anything being said on this album, and if it is then it's an extremely watered down children's book version. Seriously kid's books can have nice messages to them but the way they are delivered is well, for children. That is pretty much where SFBM seems to be from, hell one of the songs IS written for children and the rest is no different from it.

You can go on about the beauty in the simplicity of the lyrics, and ok here and there, there are a nice couple of lines but besides that's about it.

Going into reading all these books and getting "insight" into the lyrics is kinda nuts, the lyrics are so simple you don't need any sort of insight to them. There isn't anything on this album that makes me think, or challenges me .. and I'm certainly not the smartest guy in the world so it shouldn't be too hard to do that, but it doesn't. The thing is, looking at all of Ed's interviews is like a complete contradiction .. he goes off on these tangents and people don't know WTF .. when you see things he's written even though I think it's a bunch of pompous crap, it at least sounds interesting. But then when he sits down to write it just turns into "ooo baby, stay with me tonight, girl you'll be alright!" ... I know that isn't one of the lyrics, but it might as well be. As Ed himself has said, these songs are mostly inspired by women, it's a album written by Ed's penis.

Thats funny!!!! ANd pretty much true. I DO however like some of the vocals and there is some instrumental layering that I like if you listen hard, its in there, but lost in the mix. It needs to be remixed. I love "Show" despite the bad lyrics, though "black widow is a spider" is a very lame lyric. After more listening I think "Night of Nights" and "Where Do We Go From Here?" are the 2 best tracks. It is a shame that Ed no longer writes good lyrics. Though he hasn't since "TC" really. They have just become progressively worse. Cut out the "mommas" the "ooohhh child"s and the "baby"s. Maybe someone else sould have a go with lyrics, they couldn't get much worse. I mean, the melodies are there, it just needs better production and lyrics.

This post has been edited by serene23: Apr 28 2006, 5:57 pm

[Pokey]

But I think that there have been some corny lines on many of the albums. I think Secret Smadhi is full of them. Hunting deer... puke stinks like beer... merica has dropped her load. I could go on and on. Many lines on TDTH are straight forward. They Stood Up For Love is a fantastic song, but there aren't any double meanings to the lyrics - they say what they mean but they are beautiful - and the music is no more complex than Where Do We Go From Here or All I Need. I think people are being too hard on this album. I think it is really much better than BoP and on par with TDTH as far as the lyrics and music are concerned. I think people on this site who criticize SFBM are being closed-minded and biased by their own preconceptions, without even realizing it. If TDTH came out right now, and you had never heard it before, and it was produced by Jim Wirt, I think a lot of people on this site would say it absolutely sucks and it is silly.

See I don't see it as being close minded .. I can't speak for everyone else who doesn't like it, but to me I was expecting something bad, and even that managed to disappoint me. I don't think that's close minded though, it simpley comes down to me absolutely not liking this album, I get no joy from it what so ever, if I liked it I'd have no problems saying so .. but I don't.

If TDTH came out right now I'd love it .. true, Jim Wirt would manage to stamp his dullness all over it which would bring it down a bit. But I find the songs themselves so much more interesting and the lyrics better .. there is nothing like a Where fishes go, or Voodoo Lady or even Face and Ghost (one of my all time favs) that uses the "la da da" thing, but it just seems to work there ... no, SFBM to me was a complete hit and miss.

[Senghe]

I'm half kidding bout the John Frusciante thing, but I think One Hot Minute is an extrememly under-rated album. Its alternative rock, not funk rock. Probably in my top 10 albums.. but then I've been listening to it since it came out when I was 7.

I really like John Frusciantes solo stuff as well, got three of his cds... just out of curiousity, what do you think of BTW?

I do agree that One Hot Minute is pretty good and I liked it far more than any of it's predecessors - you can tell Navarro influenced it as it is dark territory for the Chilis. The big thing to me is the band has a spark with John and this chemistry shows both in the studio and when they play live. I must admit that I don't consider myself a Chili Peppers fan - whoever's playing the guitar, for my money they only ever manage to scrape an album together with about 5 killer tracks which make it as singles and the rest is mostly filler. I don't think I've even heard By The Way all the way through - I have a copy but it eludes my memory. Mind you, saying that I've loved the 3 new tracks from the new album I've heard. I think Frusciante's had a larger hand in writing it and it shows.

Before I get accused of going off topic - the thing Live and RHCP have in common - they kick serious booty live! They are without doubt the two best bands I've ever seen in concert. Despite me thinking SFBM could have been better, I am very much looking forward to seeing Live at Manchester in June. I hope they perform Night Of Nights.. that's gonna be stonking live!

[Heather]

God that's like whenever Morrissey does anything even slightly commercial there are people quoting "Re-issue, re-package, re-evaluate the songs, double pack and a photograph, extra track and a tacky badge!"

It honestly isn't clever

As for this whole "if you don't like SFBM it must be because it's going over your head!" BS .. it's the same as me saying that if you like SFBM you're just easily pleased .. a comment no SFBM person would like to take. (but it's true )

The whole analogy of people who dislike the album being like people who don't look for beauty in the ocean but in a billboard model is pretty weak. I think anyone who appreciates true beauty would prefer listening to talented human beings exploring the wealth of their talents .. something Live is not doing. It's like they've regressed (I think that's the right word) which isn't pleasurable to listen to after you know what they're capable of.

True that an angsty album would speak more to me about my life at the moment, but the content isn't largely what people are against here. It's the complete and utter cheesiness of it. The random "no child!" and the lyrical genius that is "it shines shines shines, shines shines shines, it shines shines shines" are unbelievably lame.
TDTH was an album with love and water themes and they didn't need all this crap through it to make it a pretty damn awesome album.

People who are looking at this as a deep spiritual album would be the same people who were going nuts over the lyrics in "Anna's song" by Silverchair because "Anna wrecks you life" sounds like "anorexia life" and the lead singer had anorexia, omg fucking deep!

Or if you want to look at them as cheap, fun, catchy pop songs then that's cool.. it's what they are. They do have a nice message but they're nothing profound. If you like them for what they are it's totally cool .. but other people like Live for the sort of awesome material they were making in the 90s, and there is nothing to say they can't keep the themes of what is relevent to them today and incorporate that with the creativity of yesteryear.

The other part is that the songs written back then are standing the test of time, as each album goes on they only tend to play one or possibly 2 tracks from it on the next tour. (V = Overcome. BOP = Heaven.) and I bet after this is all said and done the majority of this album will be forgotten about as well. It's all very well to say "but they have to play the classics for the casual fans!" .. that's BS. If they were making classics now they'd be playing them, but they aren't .. there isn't anything Epic about Live anymore.

These are the sorts of reasons I am pretty sure that a lot of fans can't get behind this .. not because we can't appreciate the lyrics or it's going over out heads.

Quoted for absolute and total agreement.

[Heather]

I think people on this site who criticize SFBM are being closed-minded and biased by their own preconceptions,

I think the same can be said about some people that love SFBM so much. It's almost as if they are so blinded by their love of the band that they can't possibly be objective about this album.

Personally I don't think I should have to study the same things that Ed has in order to appreciate an album. This band's music has moved me more than any other band's ever has or ever will and I never had to read a book to "get it." I just honestly don't think there is anything left to "get" at this point. I'm also tired of people telling me that I don't like this album because I'm not being open minded enough. I am the most open minded person EVER when it comes to music. This music is just not doing it for me and I fail to see why some people just can't accept that without trying to tell me I'm wrong for feeling that way. Just go enjoy the music for yourself if you love it so much and allow other people to think whatever they want to.

[Jennyfoo]

Personally I don't think I should have to study the same things that Ed has in order to appreciate an album. This band's music has moved me more than any other band's ever has or ever will and I never had to read a book to "get it." I just honestly don't think there is anything left to "get" at this point.

Uh, yeah. I mean, not once in my years of being a Live fan did I read anything Ed was inspired by and loved every bit of it til now.

I think the same can be said about some people that love SFBM so much. It's almost as if they are so blinded by their love of the band that they can't possibly be objective about this album.

I think you're right, it is impossible for some to be objective about it because it's LIVE and they LOVE Live! I felt like I had to love BOP when it came out. And I sorta made myself for awhile. Because it was Live! But then I realized I really didn't love it. But hey! At least on the bright side there - at least it sounds better now that I heard SFBM

[SJN1279]

I think the same can be said about some people that love SFBM so much. It's almost as if they are so blinded by their love of the band that they can't possibly be objective about this album.

Yeah, thats why I like it. You're right on the money as always.

Just because you don't like the album doesn't mean it isn't good. You don't like the Hot A/C style of music and thats fine. It doesn't mean that Live didn't make an excellent album in that format.

This thread should be closed for excessive whining.....

[SJN1279]

The other part is that the songs written back then are standing the test of time, as each album goes on they only tend to play one or possibly 2 tracks from it on the next tour. (V = Overcome. BOP = Heaven.) and I bet after this is all said and done the majority of this album will be forgotten about as well. It's all very well to say "but they have to play the classics for the casual fans!" .. that's BS. If they were making classics now they'd be playing them, but they aren't .. there isn't anything Epic about Live anymore.

It is very hard for old bands to make new classics on a consistent basis. Fans and record companies are always onto the next big thing. This industry tends to forget about past stars very fast. Think of all the 80's,90's bands that are still touring today. They get buy on their classics, not because they still aren't making good music, its because companies are out there trying to make a quick buck on the next big thing.

LIVE being in the mainstream for 15 years straight is a rarity in the music business. Their concerts are always packed and they still have a great following. Most people on this board love Secret Samahdi, but the album only produced hit songs based on Throwing Copper's lead-in success. That was LIVE's hot period.....once your hot period ends it is almost impossible to come back.

LIVE is still around in their original form, and we should be enjoying it. Its an amazing accomplishment to stay together for such a long period of time.

[Heather]

Yeah, thats why I like it. You're right on the money as always.

Just because you don't like the album doesn't mean it isn't good. You don't like the Hot A/C style of music and thats fine. It doesn't mean that Live didn't make an excellent album in that format.

This thread should be closed for excessive whining.....

When have I ever said this album isn't good? I haven't said jack shit about this album other than the fact that I'm tired of people telling me that I'm supposed to like it for whatever reasons. I have also said numerous times, if you like it, good for you, enjoy it.

This post has been edited by Heather: Apr 30 2006, 9:42 am

[SJN1279]

When have I ever said this album isn't good? I haven't said jack shit about this album other than the fact that I'm tired of people telling me that I'm supposed to like it for whatever reasons. I have also said numerous times, if you like it, good for you, enjoy it.

Who has told you personally to like the album? People fight for their viewpoints on a message board. Its just they believe in their position and sometimes get too carried away. Its cool if you don't like the album, and its great that I love it.

Whatever floats a person's boat.

[Heather]

Who has told you personally to like the album? People fight for their viewpoints on a message board. Its just they believe in their position and sometimes get too carried away. Its cool if you don't like the album, and its great that I love it.

Whatever floats a person's boat.

Well we can start with Fishouttawater up there telling everyone that they need to read Ken Wilbur books and take a Yoga class and probably go on the Chad Taylor blueberry diet so that we can become enlightened enough to understand how truly great this ablum is. Why can't I just be allowed to not like it without taking crap for it. Am I trying to talk all the people that DO like it into not liking it? No, I would just like to be allowed to have an opinion just like anyone else without getting my shit jumped on everytime I try to express it.

[SJN1279]

Well we can start with Fishouttawater up there telling everyone that they need to read Ken Wilbur books and take a Yoga class and probably go on the Chad Taylor blueberry diet so that we can become enlightened enough to understand how truly great this ablum is. Why can't I just be allowed to not like it without taking crap for it. Am I trying to talk all the people that DO like it into not liking it? No, I would just like to be allowed to have an opinion just like anyone else without getting my shit jumped on everytime I try to express it.

I apologize if it seemed like a jumped on you. I know I have in the past, because we both have cumbustible personalites. Very good sparring partners. However, if you don't like the new LIVE stuff, that's cool. Its your opinion and its totally valid.