My OPEN letter to Nick Options

[+Ed+]

And Ed could save a hundred orphans from a burning building and Aitkens would claim he just did it to make himself look good............

The only problem is....

Ed is not saving even 1 of those

[Pokey]

I was asked my opinion.

I actually like Ed's solo album a lot.
The rest of Live created The Gracious Few, and I'm not a fan of most of the music that they are turning out. So clearly I would favor ed over the rest.

You were honest with your response which was good. But it still baffles me that for being such a huge fan (I'm suss on the Secret Samadhi stuff too, so hard to see someone that thinks The River is amazing to also be happy listening to Unsheathed.. but anyways) why you find it so hard to join in other conversations about things that don't have to do with charting or marketing.

Like I said, you'd probably cop a hell of a lot less flak if people saw you chiming in on discussions on bootlegs or lyrics or whatever. It's obvious you have a passion for the marketing side of music, I don't think there's anything really wrong with that .. but it just seems like there's no passion behind the marketing. It's like you've picked a band/singer and made it your mission for them to get commercial success and you're not sure why, but you just want it to happen.

If Swami for example (this is an extreme example) was as hell bent on Ed or TGF being marketed well and charting and sales, I don't think he'd gain a negative comment from anyone. The man is as dedicated to the music as it gets it seems, the youtube clips, the collecting, the intimate knowledge of the bands history... it would seem natural for someone like him or someone of that ilk to want to see them or Ed succeed.

You just never seemed to fit that mould. I mean you defended stagnant setlists because it's "what the casual fan would want" and "it's the smart thing to do" ... if you loved so much of everything they ever done why did we never see the absolute craving from you that so many others had to see them branch out and explore more of their own cataglog?
Its little things like this that add up to why I think you cop so much flak around here.

[VoodooLady]

Not that I agree with Nick all the time, but all the Nick haters (and supporters) here sound fanatical and have been making way too big a deal. I haven't noticed anyone crying about him before the breakup. He probably wouldn't have been a blip on a lot of peoples radar if there wasn't a gigantic rash of ridiculous Ed hating assumptions after Chad's first letter. Who cares

I DO.

the original intent of my letter to nick was simple. to communicate to nick that he does indeed push certain people's buttons- call em/me fanatical or whatever, i dont care --- and that his behavior pisses some people off and that annoyance is transfered to Ed, and how can that be good for Ed?

it became ever clear that this was what was going on for ME when Nick disappeared for a few days, and i found the intensely negative feelings towards Ed (hate is not a nice word!) softening a bit - only to have it return when Nick returned with his fanboy posts. I'm not the only one who noticed this (Pokey, me thinks said the same thing)..

ALSO- it became incredibly difficult to process Chad's first blog post on Ed, with Nick spouting off- never thought of it before, but its possible that "rash of ridiculous Ed hating assumptions" were exacerbated because of Nick insistence that Ed can do no wrong.. and his out right refusal to acknowledge the emotional hurt Chad talked about.. in fact Nick's comments on Chad typically focused on diminishing his credibility ("grain of salt" comments stick in my head)..

[sh4rpz]

You were honest with your response which was good. But it still baffles me that for being such a huge fan (I'm suss on the Secret Samadhi stuff too, so hard to see someone that thinks The River is amazing to also be happy listening to Unsheathed.. but anyways) why you find it so hard to join in other conversations about things that don't have to do with charting or marketing.

Like I said, you'd probably cop a hell of a lot less flak if people saw you chiming in on discussions on bootlegs or lyrics or whatever. It's obvious you have a passion for the marketing side of music, I don't think there's anything really wrong with that .. but it just seems like there's no passion behind the marketing. It's like you've picked a band/singer and made it your mission for them to get commercial success and you're not sure why, but you just want it to happen.

If Swami for example (this is an extreme example) was as hell bent on Ed or TGF being marketed well and charting and sales, I don't think he'd gain a negative comment from anyone. The man is as dedicated to the music as it gets it seems, the youtube clips, the collecting, the intimate knowledge of the bands history... it would seem natural for someone like him or someone of that ilk to want to see them or Ed succeed.

You just never seemed to fit that mould. I mean you defended stagnant setlists because it's "what the casual fan would want" and "it's the smart thing to do" ... if you loved so much of everything they ever done why did we never see the absolute craving from you that so many others had to see them branch out and explore more of their own cataglog?
Its little things like this that add up to why I think you cop so much flak around here.

Fucking A, dude. You said it.

But, I'll be fair, I've read some older threads lately from around this time last year, and that is when I noticed Nick start to sway more to one member, namely Ed. I think he was pretty 'fair' before then.

I donno tho. Still have my doubts about him being a fanofLIVE including the efforts MJ, TC, SS.

[janine5683]

I think Nick is discussed more on this forum than Live, TGF or Ed. Good grief.

Zman should've started a forum about SJN, not TGF....

[Sakhmet2]

I think Nick is discussed more on this forum than Live, TGF or Ed. Good grief.

Zman should've started a forum about SJN, not TGF....

OT: Every time I see the emoticon I always wonder "Why is that banana holding a candle?"

This post has been edited by Sakhmet2: Jul 28 2010, 9:21 am

[SJN1279]

I think Nick is discussed more on this forum than Live, TGF or Ed. Good grief.

Zman should've started a forum about SJN, not TGF....

That is way too funny, Janine. But to answer questions.....

I actually like Secret Samadhi quite a lot. First album of Live's that I can listen to all the way through. I especially like Rattlesnake, Turn My Head, Insomnia, Merica, and Gas Hed.

Mental Jewelery is the only album where I tend to skip songs on a regular basis. After Waterboy, MJ goes downhill for me personally. I love Mother Earth, but the rest of the second half of MJ is dull to me.

On Throwing Copper, I rarely ever listen to Dam at Otter Creek, Stage, and Horse. The rest of the album is amazing.

TDTH is Live's best album and I can listen to any song of it no problem.

Ifrom can listen to any song V, BOP, or SFBM and enjoy it too. I also like Radiant Sea, Forever, Purifier, and love Beautiful Invisible.

I dig Alive and love most songs on the album.

[TheBeacon]

That is way too funny, Janine. But to answer questions.....

I actually like Secret Samadhi quite a lot. First album of Live's that I can listen to all the way through. I especially like Rattlesnake, Turn My Head, Insomnia, Merica, and Gas Hed.

Mental Jewelery is the only album where I tend to skip songs on a regular basis. After Waterboy, MJ goes downhill for me personally. I love Mother Earth, but the rest of the second half of MJ is dull to me.

On Throwing Copper, I rarely ever listen to Dam at Otter Creek, Stage, and Horse. The rest of the album is amazing.

TDTH is Live's best album and I can listen to any song of it no problem.

Ifrom can listen to any song V, BOP, or SFBM and enjoy it too. I also like Radiant Sea, Forever, Purifier, and love Beautiful Invisible.

I dig Alive and love most songs on the album.

I am at a loss of words on what to say if you can listen to SBFM all the way through yet skip songs on MJ

[OutToDry]

I am at a loss of words on what to say if you can listen to SBFM all the way through yet skip songs on MJ

Way to fess up Nick. Interesting that you'd skip MJ songs. The Band roots are over every track, thow in the 4 Songs tracks and everything. I don't I've ever listened to the Charred mountain shit all the way through even once. It's that much garbage. But to each their own.

[ItchyTriggerFinger]

Not that I agree with Nick all the time, but all the Nick haters (and supporters) here sound fanatical and have been making way too big a deal.

I don't hate Nick so much as I pity him. He obviously can't keep his stories straight and has twisted himself in knots trying to justify his crap.

I haven't noticed anyone crying about him before the breakup. He probably wouldn't have been a blip on a lot of peoples radar if there wasn't a gigantic rash of ridiculous Ed hating assumptions after Chad's first letter. Who cares

Relatively recent member of the board here so I can't speak to what's gone on before. However, it has been noted here that Nick is strangely absent regarding any discussions as to past tracks that have been posted. For a guy who says he's been a fan since 1995, and obviously has no problem offering an opinion, that's kind of strange.

Or maybe Nick is what he has been repeatedly accused of being.

[ItchyTriggerFinger]

Nick has fanatical supporters?
A few people step to his defense, but it's nothing compared to the stream of unpleasantness that goes the other way. And I suspect that's just to try and leaven the bile because it's not fun to watch.
If you don't believe that, try actually counting the number of pro-posts vs. against.

Well what the fuck do you expect to happen when Nick's actual answers stand in direct contradiction to his previous answers, or his actions, or, at times, reality itself?

Of course people get pissed.

[ItchyTriggerFinger]

yea i agree for the most part

When the people arguing against are the people making more sense, one should not be surprised that others are drawn to their point of view.

[ItchyTriggerFinger]

I think Nick is discussed more on this forum than Live, TGF or Ed. Good grief.

Zman should've started a forum about SJN, not TGF....

Hell no, the TGF forums are blissfully absent of conversations regarding Nick. But then again, the TGF forums are pretty much dedicated to TGF alone. People come back here for their discussions of Live. Who as far as Nick is concerned is Ed.

[crazy1]

I have nothing useful to contribute so...to the above pic

[ItchyTriggerFinger]

That is way too funny, Janine. But to answer questions.....

I actually like Secret Samadhi quite a lot. First album of Live's that I can listen to all the way through. I especially like Rattlesnake, Turn My Head, Insomnia, Merica, and Gas Hed.

If that's way too funny, your sense of humor, like your musical acumen, is called into question.

Only surprise on that list for me would be Insomnia, possibly Rattlesnake. That you list Turn My Head, Merica, and Gas Hed should shock no one.

Mental Jewelery is the only album where I tend to skip songs on a regular basis. After Waterboy, MJ goes downhill for me personally. I love Mother Earth, but the rest of the second half of MJ is dull to me.

Oh noes!!!! I have to hand in my Nick-hating card. Damn you, damn you! Seriously though, while I love the individual songs on MJ, I do agree that the second half of the album does plod along a bit when listened in a row. Love the songs, but prefer them mixed in with other stuff that's a bit more uptempo than straight through.

On Throwing Copper, I rarely ever listen to Dam at Otter Creek, Stage, and Horse. The rest of the album is amazing.

You rarely listen to TDAOC???? Really? More than Selling the Drama and I Alone, that was the song that truly hooked me when I first got my hands on Throwing Copper. But then, the song requires appreciating more than just Ed. That you don't care for Stage is no surprise, but it's a damn shame. And I'm guessing you find Horse to be plodding as well. Still a bit of a shocker since I think it seems right up your alley.

TDTH is Live's best album and I can listen to any song of it no problem.

Crap, there you go mostly agreeing with me. Gonna ruin my rep in one post. I love TDTH. I don't necessarily think its their best album but it speaks to me every bit as much as TC does, and that's saying quite a bit.

Ifrom can listen to any song V, BOP, or SFBM and enjoy it too. I also like Radiant Sea, Forever, Purifier, and love Beautiful Invisible.

I probably enjoy the three albums more than most do here even if I understand why some hate them. V is my guilty pleasure in the bunch. Even more than SFBM, which really is more Adult Contemporary than it is rock, V has certain songs which are incredibly cheesy. I chuckle at myself even as I listen to them. For my money, BoP is the best of the three. I'll put She, Like I Do, and River Town up there with any of them. As for SFBM, I've said before I don't mind Adult Contemporary, so I can still appreciate it. Though I really wish that had been Ed's first solo album. Because calling it a Live album just doesn't seem right. I completely lack that Live feel to it.

I far prefer Radiant Sea and, to a lesser extent, Beautiful Invisible to Forever and Purifier. Heck, I prefer We Deal in Dreams and the cover of Walk the Line to those two. But by then, I guess it was obvious to even someone who hadn't been paying attention to the behind the scenes stuff (like me) that the end was drawing near on them as a band.

I dig Alive and love most songs on the album.

I liked Grace. I had high hopes for the album based on it. Maybe if Eat Your Love, which I was able to listen to thanks to several kind souls, were on the album instead of an extra, I could justify the purchase. But as I noted in my review, some of the songs outright sucked. And considering I can listen to SFBM from beginning to end without wincing, I found Alive incredibly disappointing.

But I grant you kudos on at least finally giving us some real insight as to what you actually liked.

Fixed the quoting. Apparently, I went one quote box too far and it wouldn't take.

This post has been edited by ItchyTriggerFinger: Jul 28 2010, 11:32 am