LIVE vs. the perception of SFBM Options

[pizan0]

I think the negativity that some are having a hard time experiencing ... "COULD BE THE WINGS THAT, CARRY YOU HOME

Extremely wise ass comment....but very creative.

[Alex]

SFBM sounds like perfect, and IS perfect.
The production is absolutely perfect
There is nothing shallow and a lot to appreciate on SFBM- it's all deep level, and a pretty deep level at that. If you cannot find that is lack of imagination.

Why should it annoy people that not everyone has the same opinions? I absolutely love Live's newest offering and I still love the first four albums. I have just as much right to express my opinion as people that hate the album. Bad for them.... I am glad I don’t hate it, really.

Btw, to the people that HATE the SFBM production... do you know what bad production is? I mean, its a subjective matter but it doesnt change the fact that SFBM is nicely produced with much life and feeling.

Lol, ywot? That didn't even make any sense... were you trying to be clever? Look, please tell me what I'm supposed to find on another level about SFBM. With lyrics like these...

On a crystal clear blue morning
There is a peace that only you can know
It is truth and love and it is always there
Even if you fall down
Even if you fall down
Love Shines

Oh it shines
Like an eternal sun it shines
Oh love shines
Like an eternal sun it shines

Think of gentle Jesus
Think of the Buddha underneath his tree
They taught the world about love and how we all can be
How we can all be free
Open our hearts and see
Love shine

and the most typical boring chord progressions you can come up with, what am I supposed to find? Do you think it makes you more intelligent because you can apparently appreciate something beyond these pathetic lyrics and uninspiring melodies?

[Soxwsc]

You don't have to appreciate those lyrics, but to call the song pathetic and uninspiring is just being melowdramatic. Honestly I think this album is some of Live's most melodic and inspiring work to date, and Love Shines is among the best.

[Pokey]

I think the negativity that some are having a hard time experiencing ... "COULD BE THE WINGS THAT, CARRY YOU HOME

God that's like whenever Morrissey does anything even slightly commercial there are people quoting "Re-issue, re-package, re-evaluate the songs, double pack and a photograph, extra track and a tacky badge!"

It honestly isn't clever

As for this whole "if you don't like SFBM it must be because it's going over your head!" BS .. it's the same as me saying that if you like SFBM you're just easily pleased .. a comment no SFBM person would like to take. (but it's true )

The whole analogy of people who dislike the album being like people who don't look for beauty in the ocean but in a billboard model is pretty weak. I think anyone who appreciates true beauty would prefer listening to talented human beings exploring the wealth of their talents .. something Live is not doing. It's like they've regressed (I think that's the right word) which isn't pleasurable to listen to after you know what they're capable of.

True that an angsty album would speak more to me about my life at the moment, but the content isn't largely what people are against here. It's the complete and utter cheesiness of it. The random "no child!" and the lyrical genius that is "it shines shines shines, shines shines shines, it shines shines shines" are unbelievably lame.
TDTH was an album with love and water themes and they didn't need all this crap through it to make it a pretty damn awesome album.

People who are looking at this as a deep spiritual album would be the same people who were going nuts over the lyrics in "Anna's song" by Silverchair because "Anna wrecks you life" sounds like "anorexia life" and the lead singer had anorexia, omg fucking deep!

Or if you want to look at them as cheap, fun, catchy pop songs then that's cool.. it's what they are. They do have a nice message but they're nothing profound. If you like them for what they are it's totally cool .. but other people like Live for the sort of awesome material they were making in the 90s, and there is nothing to say they can't keep the themes of what is relevent to them today and incorporate that with the creativity of yesteryear.

The other part is that the songs written back then are standing the test of time, as each album goes on they only tend to play one or possibly 2 tracks from it on the next tour. (V = Overcome. BOP = Heaven.) and I bet after this is all said and done the majority of this album will be forgotten about as well. It's all very well to say "but they have to play the classics for the casual fans!" .. that's BS. If they were making classics now they'd be playing them, but they aren't .. there isn't anything Epic about Live anymore.

These are the sorts of reasons I am pretty sure that a lot of fans can't get behind this .. not because we can't appreciate the lyrics or it's going over out heads.

[Jennyfoo]

True that an angsty album would speak more to me about my life at the moment, but the content isn't largely what people are against here. It's the complete and utter cheesiness of it. The random "no child!" and the lyrical genius that is "it shines shines shines, shines shines shines, it shines shines shines" are unbelievably lame.

TDTH was an album with love and water themes and they didn't need all this crap through it to make it a pretty damn awesome album.

Ulimately, it's the cheese factor I have the most problem with as well. So you wanna write a pop song. Fine! More power to ya, even. At least write it WELL and cut the cheesey stupid lyrics. Also, I can't be the only one cringing at the forced rhymes in this songs (i.e "Sophia. I need ya" "Put your peace in the valley tonight Bring the soldier home alright")

These are the sorts of reasons I am pretty sure that a lot of fans can't get behind this .. not because we can't appreciate the lyrics or it's going over out heads.

Amen, brother!

You sound pretty smart, I'll bet you wouldn't miss a sunset to talk on your cellphone either

[LiveattheOasis]

Extremely wise ass comment....but very creative.

I appreciate that, and I'm with you on the album, I really do enjoy it, though I would say MJ, TC, SS and probably the TDTH are all better.

[Pokey]

Ulimately, it's the cheese factor I have the most problem with as well. So you wanna write a pop song. Fine! More power to ya, even. At least write it WELL and cut the cheesey stupid lyrics. Also, I can't be the only one cringing at the forced rhymes in this songs (i.e "Sophia. I need ya" "Put your peace in the valley tonight Bring the soldier home alright")
Amen, brother!

You sound pretty smart, I'll bet you wouldn't miss a sunset to talk on your cellphone either

I talk on my phone whilst looking at the sunset, multi-tasking!

[Costakoui]

Lol, ywot? That didn't even make any sense... were you trying to be clever? Look, please tell me what I'm supposed to find on another level about SFBM. With lyrics like these...

What i am trying to say is that you are contradicting yourself. On one hand you say that it is subjective and a matter of opinion and on the other hand you say that it is a fact that SFBM is badly produced. How can you talk about FACTS if it is a matter of opinion?

Finding something meaningful in SFBM lyrics is also subjective. I have found a lot, simple straight-forward sentences that touched me. If you cannot find anything, that's fine.

[blue23]

(all imo of course)

Dave Navarro was better in the Chilis than John.
SFBM sounds like crap, and IS crap.
The production is absolutely horrible
There is nothing deep to understand and appreciate on SFBM- it's all surface level, and a pretty shallow surface level at that. Anything else you find is your imagination.
I can name many bands that have had better 6th and 7th albums. eg. Porcupine Tree. Opeth. Radiohead. Faith No More.
Why should it annoy people that not everyone has the same opinions? I absolutely cannot stand Live's newest offering but I still love the first four albums. I have just as much right to express my opinion as people that love the album. Good for them.... I wish I could love it as well, I really do.

Btw, to the people that LIKE the SFBM production... do you know what good production is? I mean, its a subjective matter but it doesnt change the fact that SFBM is over compressed with no life and feeling.

I don't think anyone is saying that you can't express your opinion. Some people here are just making an obsevation and giving their opinion like your are, that's all. Also, I think some people on this board are confused as to why others continue to talk about the new album when they say that it's horrible. Btw, I have to say calling SFBM crap is a little rough in MY opinion. Man, I mean crap. Certainly not their best and probably similar to like Vertical Horizon or Matchbox Twenty but certainly not crap to my ears. I would like to hear some deeper lyrics and more complicated arrangements but it's still better than that crap they call music on the radio nowadays. Now 90% of that stuff could be classified as crap. Also to Alex, I love Radiohead but I personally didn't think that Hail to the Thief lived up to their potential just like some are saying about SFBM. I also have to ask, what do you consider "good" production? I'm curious.

[Alex]

What i am trying to say is that you are contradicting yourself. On one hand you say that it is subjective and a matter of opinion and on the other hand you say that it is a fact that SFBM is badly produced. How can you talk about FACTS if it is a matter of opinion?

Finding something meaningful in SFBM lyrics is also subjective. I have found a lot, simple straight-forward sentences that touched me. If you cannot find anything, that's fine.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I meant production is somewhat a subjective matter, but it is a fact that SFBM is overcompressed. Like most cds are nowadays... but to me SFBM sounds completely flat and devoid of life... its just there. No dynamic range, or energy, with studio over-precision.

Also to Alex, I love Radiohead but I personally didn't think that Hail to the Thief lived up to their potential just like some are saying about SFBM. I also have to ask, what do you consider "good" production? I'm curious.

I personally love Hail to the Thief... one of my favourite Radiohead albums, after OK Computer and Kid A... probably about equal to The Bends for me. I can definitely see why people don't appreciate it as much as earlier stuff though.

5 albums with good production imo...

1) Jeff Buckley- Grace (Andy Wallace... brilliant producer/mixer. Beautiful album, good dynamic range, perfect sound for the style)
2) Porcupine Tree- In Absentia/Deadwing (both a bit over-compressed but with the most beautiful lush harmonies ever...)
3) Opeth- Damnation/Blackwater Park (same producer/mixer as Porcupine Tree- Steven Wilson. Amazing guitar tones, again with beautiful vocal harmonies)
4) Pink Floyd- Dark Side of the Moon & Wish you were here (...yeah)
5) Mr. Bungle- California (incredibly warm album.. even though it's so eclectic every moment sounds amazing)

All of them have faults... pretty insignificant to those present in SFBM though.

[Gertjan]

SFBM is overcompressed. Like most cds are nowadays... but to me SFBM sounds completely flat and devoid of life... its just there. No dynamic range, or energy, with studio over-precision.

I have to agree, it's like listening to the radio where all music is compressed like hell. In fact, that's one of the reasons I don't listen to radio much. It's too bad most albums today suffer from this "louder is better" syndrome, and broadcasting makes it even worse. Any idea how to fight this?

[Senghe]

Alex says Dave Navarro was better in the Chili Peppers than John Frusciante... the record sales say EH-UURH!

What we all need to bear in mind is that people really can't be bothered writing a disclaimer of IMHO every 5 seconds. The fact that we almost all have a different opinion, whatever it may be, is what makes things interesting. There are no wrong opinions with music... apart from Alex's about John Frusciante...

Only joking Alex. If I add that I'm a hardcore fan of Frusciante's solo stuff, you'll probably realize what strange creature I am.

[FishOutaWater]

Lol, ywot? That didn't even make any sense... were you trying to be clever? Look, please tell me what I'm supposed to find on another level about SFBM. With lyrics like these...

On a crystal clear blue morning
There is a peace that only you can know
It is truth and love and it is always there
Even if you fall down
Even if you fall down
Love Shines

Oh it shines
Like an eternal sun it shines
Oh love shines
Like an eternal sun it shines

Think of gentle Jesus
Think of the Buddha underneath his tree
They taught the world about love and how we all can be
How we can all be free
Open our hearts and see
Love shine

and the most typical boring chord progressions you can come up with, what am I supposed to find? Do you think it makes you more intelligent because you can apparently appreciate something beyond these pathetic lyrics and uninspiring melodies?

Anybody can look at the liner notes of any album by any artist and pick out the most obvious lyrics with the least amount of metaphorical interpretation, and then genralize that into a statement that the entire album is simple and lacks creativity. I could do that with any album. But there is a great deal of depth on SFBM as a whole. And even the lyrics to Love Shines, while perhaps lacking in double meaning, are ambitious and meaningful and personal. Writing a song about what God is, and doing it well, as Ed did with Love Shines, is no small creative undertaking. Ed is saying that God is not some dogma or set of rules and beliefs to follow and there is no one true religion that has the only path to God. God is the everpresent, radiant love that has existed for all time; it is the love and peace that Jesus and the Buddha and all spiritual teachers have spoken of, that can be found in the stillness of a quiet morning.

If SFBM says one thing to me, it is the following (and this is going to get pretty deep, so I'm sorry for going off the deep end)... These beautiful songs are an artistic expression of the realization that the present moment is all there is, and the full potential of the present moment, as realized through the undiscriminating awareness of pure consciousness, is pefect and vast and one with everything, and is that from which springs infinite love and compassion.

If you read and listen to the interviews with the band, and you yourself read and listen to the wisdom teachings of all religions from which Ed and the band have drawn (which they have spoken about in interviews), then the lyrics to SFBM will not be trite or shallow. They may actually mean more to you than a person who is unaware (or ignorant) of this background and wisdom.

Likewise, I could point to the guitar chords in any song and say "look at those guitar chords, they are simple guitar chords". But I have found layers of music and creativity in SFBM, certainly much more than that in BoP. There is much more there than any one isolated guitar chord sequence you can point to. I think the musical compositions on SFBM compare favorable to TDTH.

If there is one problem with SFBM it is the producer. Just like on BoP, the guitars sound like an electric razor, buzzing perfectly, and the whole album is too polished. I think as much as I like these songs, I would be totally blown away by the album if it had a rougher sound, like more of a band just jamming, instead of some great songs that have been filtered, purified, strained and pureed in a cuisinart.

[pizan0]

Anybody can look at the liner notes of any album by any artist and pick out the most obvious lyrics with the least amount of metaphorical interpretation, and then genralize that into a statement that the entire album is simple and lacks creativity. I could do that with any album. But there is a great deal of depth on SFBM as a whole. And even the lyrics to Love Shines, while perhaps lacking in double meaning, are ambitious and meaningful and personal. Writing a song about what God is, and doing it well, as Ed did with Love Shines, is no small creative undertaking. Ed is saying that God is not some dogma or set of rules and beliefs to follow and there is no one true religion that has the only path to God. God is the everpresent, radiant love that has existed for all time; it is the love and peace that Jesus and the Buddha and all spiritual teachers have spoken of, that can be found in the stillness of a quiet morning.

If SFBM says one thing to me, it is the following (and this is going to get pretty deep, so I'm sorry for going off the deep end)... These beautiful songs are an artistic expression of the realization that the present moment is all there is, and the full potential of the present moment, as realized through the undiscriminating awareness of pure consciousness, is pefect and vast and one with everything, and is that from which springs infinite love and compassion.

If you read and listen to the interviews with the band, and you yourself read and listen to the wisdom teachings of all religions from which Ed and the band have drawn (which they have spoken about in interviews), then the lyrics to SFBM will not be trite or shallow. They may actually mean more to you than a person who is unaware (or ignorant) of this background and wisdom.

Likewise, I could point to the guitar chords in any song and say "look at those guitar chords, they are simple guitar chords". But I have found layers of music and creativity in SFBM, certainly much more than that in BoP. There is much more there than any one isolated guitar chord sequence you can point to. I think the musical compositions on SFBM compare favorable to TDTH.

If there is one problem with SFBM it is the producer. Just like on BoP, the guitars sound like an electric razor, buzzing perfectly, and the whole album is too polished. I think as much as I like these songs, I would be totally blown away by the album if it had a rougher sound, like more of a band just jamming, instead of some great songs that have been filtered, purified, strained and pureed in a cuisinart.

Beautiful post! Very eloquent and thorough...plus I agree with much of your point of view.

[Alex]

Alex says Dave Navarro was better in the Chili Peppers than John Frusciante... the record sales say EH-UURH!

What we all need to bear in mind is that people really can't be bothered writing a disclaimer of IMHO every 5 seconds. The fact that we almost all have a different opinion, whatever it may be, is what makes things interesting. There are no wrong opinions with music... apart from Alex's about John Frusciante...

Only joking Alex. If I add that I'm a hardcore fan of Frusciante's solo stuff, you'll probably realize what strange creature I am.

I'm half kidding bout the John Frusciante thing, but I think One Hot Minute is an extrememly under-rated album. Its alternative rock, not funk rock. Probably in my top 10 albums.. but then I've been listening to it since it came out when I was 7.

I really like John Frusciantes solo stuff as well, got three of his cds... just out of curiousity, what do you think of BTW?

If SFBM says one thing to me, it is the following (and this is going to get pretty deep, so I'm sorry for going off the deep end)... These beautiful songs are an artistic expression of the realization that the present moment is all there is, and the full potential of the present moment, as realized through the undiscriminating awareness of pure consciousness, is pefect and vast and one with everything, and is that from which springs infinite love and compassion.

If you read and listen to the interviews with the band, and you yourself read and listen to the wisdom teachings of all religions from which Ed and the band have drawn (which they have spoken about in interviews), then the lyrics to SFBM will not be trite or shallow. They may actually mean more to you than a person who is unaware (or ignorant) of this background and wisdom.

Likewise, I could point to the guitar chords in any song and say "look at those guitar chords, they are simple guitar chords". But I have found layers of music and creativity in SFBM, certainly much more than that in BoP. There is much more there than any one isolated guitar chord sequence you can point to. I think the musical compositions on SFBM compare favorable to TDTH.

Please point me to these layers of creativity. I cannot find a single moment on the album. I do not see how knowledge of these 'wisdom teachings' would affect your perception of lyrics on this album. No matter what way you look at them, they're simple, cheesy, and actually quite embarrasing to listen to.

At least V was fun.