LIVE vs. the perception of SFBM Options

[flaterik]

There is a lot of talk going on about pop or not pop, old vs. new LIVE, etc. I for one am a bit disappointed in the finished product of the SFBM album, but now I realize why. I had heard some early versions of some of the new songs (don't know where ) and saw the boyz play some of the new stuff in New Jersey last November and I was stoked. Then I got my hands on the disk and...well... it tasted like a British Ale...flat and warm! Now on the weekend I saw the Rockpalast broadcast and WHAMO!! It was clear. I always knew the new songs were good (ok, average by LIVE standards, but still light years ahead of standard radio trash ), but the production on the album and the overzealous "accoustic version" marketing just killed them. Made them flat. The songs have their moments but just don't go anywhere. When you see the new songs played in concert you will know what I mean. Totally different energy!!!!

Any thoughts!?

[Soxwsc]

I can see how a lot of long time Live fans would be disappointed in this album. It's different than anything they've done before, in the sense that all the songs are mostly fast-paced pop songs. A lot of people prefer slowing it down and rocking it out like TBD, Dolphin's Cry etc., but these songs start off upbeat and fast-paced and continue that way throughout the song with the melody and vocals carrying the song. This type of album will appeal to a lot of people who are fans of melodic pop/rock and not necessarily Live fans. I'm sure this is what Ed wanted the album to sound like, and Jim Wirt did a good job at making it sound like a good pop album.

Right now I'm listening to 100 Live songs on shuffle, just listened to TBD, Deep Enough, Pain Lies on the Riverside, Where Do We Go From Here, and The Dolphins Cry in order, and it hit me how vastly different all these songs are, and that's why I like this band so much.

This post has been edited by Soxwsc: Apr 26 2006, 10:50 am

[FishOutaWater]

I’m not here to pick a fight, but I get frustrated by what I read on this site by people who are supposed to be fans that don’t seem to appreciate what Live has done with SFBM. I’m afraid that SFBM is going right over the heads of most of the people on this site. I don’t even post on here any more because I’m starting to think that this site should be renamed from fansoflive.com to fansofthewaylivesoundedtenyearsago.com.

Waaah! Live doesn’t sound like they did from MJ through TDTH! Oh, I think I might like Night of Nights because it sounds kind of like Ghost and I liked that song 9 years ago. Wow, it’s got that cool echo singing and the tempo changes and it sounds dark.

I think that the people who complain about this album would the same kind of people that would stand on a quiet street by a cliff overlooking the pacific ocean on a clear beautiful evening as the sun sets over the ocean horizon, and they would have their back turned to the sunset to stare at a billboard on the street with a bikini clad model selling Heineken, while talking on their cell phone about where to go party with their friends.

SFBM requires some attention and understanding and appreciation. Wings, All I Need, Love Shines, and You Are Not Alone are really beautiful songs about universal, spiritual lessons of love and truth and they are richly entertaining and creative songs. But it doesn’t seem like many people here can appreciate that because you are waiting to be distracted by “shiny objects” like the same sound you heard from Live 7 to 15 years ago. Get over it! What Live is doing right now is really great if you open yourself to it and stop judging the band against your criteria of how it compares to their material 3 albums ago.

From MJ to SFBM, Live has evolved from searching for the path, to pointing out the hypocrisy of others who claim to own the only path, to finding the path, to being happy on the path, to describing to everyone what the path looks like.

Take five of the best songs from BoP and SFBM and you practically have a perfect album. How many other bands can you name that have done that on their 6th and 7th albums?!?!

Let’s look at a few of the songs that I happen to love and many here criticize. Please excuse me, but I am going to copy from a post I made on friendsoflive.com.

Wings Now to me, this is the best song Live has made since TDTH and holds up to any song they have made. I absolutely LOVE the message of this song. It is simple and pure and it makes me reflect. I believe that the lyrics to this song describe one of the basic messages that all spiritual traditions, whether Christianity or Buddhism or Hinduism, teach. And Ed has written it with one of the most clever and brilliant metaphors that I've ever heard. The essence of Wings is that a challenge or a difficult time in life can be the path to awakening, the door to salvation, the means for our transformation. Here are the lyrics:

Weighin' on your mind like a ball and chain
Like a destiny to run from
Division in your soul
Keepin' you from whole
I can't bear to see you cryin'

The weight that lays on your shoulders
Could be the wings that carry you home

Sometimes you've got to die to be born again
Sometimes you've got to fight
Sometimes you've got to learn
Sometimes you've got to burn the old brush out, so the new can grow

The weight that lays on your shoulders
Could be the wings that carry you home

I've heard this principle described a hundred times in books and talks. When there is a difficult person in your life, a challenge to your peace, this may be exactly what you need at this moment to awaken. That weight on your shoulders may really be a gift. And the way Ed describes this as the "wings that carry you home" is just so beautiful. Really amazing stuff. Great song.

Love Shines This is a great, amazing description of the spirit that created and surrounds us all. The ever-present radiant clarity of light and love that is always there and has always been there. The spirit that all spiritual teachers like Jesus and the Buddha have spoken of. I've never heard a songwriter tackle such an ambitious subject in a song. It's a song about what God is. Great song.

All I Need I really enjoy this song. That music in the background that carries the melody sort of reminds me of Genesis or some of the early alternative new wave songs in the eighties or something. I can't put my finger on it but it sounds familiar. I really like it.

I like the line "Open your heart you can find your own way/I found they're all the same". Maybe I'm just looking for some deep spiritual message in Live's music, but I think that on the surface this song might sound like a guy singing to a girl that his love for her is here to stay, but it's meaning is deeper below the surface than that. Ed has said that the album was written about the female spirit as the universe that emanates and shines. Maybe I'm off base but I think that Ed is saying that he has found "love", the spirit of the creator, and it is now with him to stay. Look back at that line "Open your heart you can find your own way/I found they're all the same". Maybe this song is saying that you can pick a wisdom tradition as a path and if it is the right one for you, it will help you to apprehend the love and light of the universe. Ed has realized, as many have, that all of the paths are the same. They all lead to the same love and light. "Now I'm sitting here like a Buddha in this chair/Watch'in your spectacle unfold/I'm sorry I don't mean to stare/But baby now/My love is hear to stay". To me, those lines are directed to the spirit, personified as a female, and the lyrics say that I'm observing the world around me "watch'in your spectacle unfold" and I found love and it is hear to stay. Maybe I'm nuts, but that's what I think this song may be getting at. Anyway, I really like it.

You Are Not Alone Love this song. To me, it's about how so many people in the world go through life, following society, with their eyes closed just "stand'in in line/Tugg'in on society's coat"... "Like they ain't never gonna get old"... "Fak'in smiles, just the rank and file" and they are asleep. Too many people are going about their days asleep, not living in the present, not awake to the beauty and mystery of life. Too many people live each day like they have an infinite number of days on this earth, taking for granted the beauty and the simplicity of the world around them.

As many others here have said, I think Night of Nights is great. I really love Where Do We Go From Here. I think The River is a really catchy tune that I enjoy every time I hear it and I haven't gotten the least bit sick of the song after a thousand listens. I don't dislike the other songs, but I don't love them like the ones I mentioned. So that's about 7 songs that I think are really amazing on this album, which makes it an amazing album. Not everyone will agree with my opinion.

Does SFBM have faults? Yes. Is this an album that will immediately appeal to a mainstream audience and have commercial success like Throwing Copper? I'm don't really think it is. But is SFBM an album that a Live fan can thoroughly enjoy and love? I say absolutely yes!

[Costakoui]

I’m not here to pick a fight, but I get frustrated by what I read on this site by people who are supposed to be fans that don’t seem to appreciate what Live has done with SFBM.

I am with you. I agree with most points. Though, I disagree with your selection of the best songs from SFBM, I have already said that if Live merged BoP and SFBM into one album, it would be one of the best of the decade.

Many fans in this forum have said that SFBM lyrics are not deep and are uninspired but they have never clarified what they mean. Very often a simple straight-forward sentence is much deeper than a metaphoric one which requires interpretation. To me, depth is about giving meaning to people regardless of its form (metaphoric or straight forward).

Live is an amazing band because it still writes catchy songs, offers variety and meaningful lyrics. Yes, SFBM is weaker than TC but compared to TC the vast majority of albums in music stores are very weak.

Keep posting here. It is good when fans have the opportunity to read the other side of the spectrum; it makes them think (I hope it does).

[sherocker]

I think that the people who complain about this album would the same kind of people that would stand on a quiet street by a cliff overlooking the pacific ocean on a clear beautiful evening as the sun sets over the ocean horizon, and they would have their back turned to the sunset to stare at a billboard on the street with a bikini clad model selling Heineken, while talking on their cell phone about where to go party with their friends.

But is SFBM an album that a Live fan can thoroughly enjoy and love? I say absolutely yes!

I believe

[sherocker]

Keep posting here. It is good when fans have the opportunity to read the other side of the spectrum; it makes them think (I hope it does).

yes, please do!! we need people like u around here, people that keep the fire burning!!

[Wambangalang]

I think that the people who complain about this album would the same kind of people that would stand on a quiet street by a cliff overlooking the pacific ocean on a clear beautiful evening as the sun sets over the ocean horizon, and they would have their back turned to the sunset to stare at a billboard on the street with a bikini clad model selling Heineken, while talking on their cell phone about where to go party with their friends.

that was YOU hiding in the bushes!!!

This post has been edited by Wambangalang: Apr 26 2006, 1:31 pm

[Senghe]

You know, the more I listen to SFBM, the more I realise how CRAP the production is. To the point where I was walking the dog today and I was going over the album in my head imagining it with a more lush sound rather than flat as a pancake like it is. It's a shame as there are some great songs on there - as good as anything Live have written - but they don't live up to their full potential.

Live really need to shoot Jim Wirt in the head, and do what the Chili Peppers have done - find a producer that really works for them and stick with him. Mind you the Chili Peppers secret weapon is John Frusciante and I can't see him replacing Chad T any time soon.

[torcatofan]

I’m starting to think that this site should be renamed from fansoflive.com to fansofthewaylivesoundedtenyearsago.com.

I would definitely be part of that site's forum (although I think the URL might be a little over the character limit ).

[Costakoui]

You know, the more I listen to SFBM, the more I realise how CRAP the production is.

The more i listen to SFBM, the more i realise how GREAT the production is. Jim has done an excellent job.

[Alex]

(all imo of course)

Dave Navarro was better in the Chilis than John.
SFBM sounds like crap, and IS crap.
The production is absolutely horrible
There is nothing deep to understand and appreciate on SFBM- it's all surface level, and a pretty shallow surface level at that. Anything else you find is your imagination.
I can name many bands that have had better 6th and 7th albums. eg. Porcupine Tree. Opeth. Radiohead. Faith No More.
Why should it annoy people that not everyone has the same opinions? I absolutely cannot stand Live's newest offering but I still love the first four albums. I have just as much right to express my opinion as people that love the album. Good for them.... I wish I could love it as well, I really do.

Btw, to the people that LIKE the SFBM production... do you know what good production is? I mean, its a subjective matter but it doesnt change the fact that SFBM is over compressed with no life and feeling.

[Costakoui]

(all imo of course)

Dave Navarro was better in the Chilis than John.
SFBM sounds like crap, and IS crap.
The production is absolutely horrible
There is nothing deep to understand and appreciate on SFBM- it's all surface level, and a pretty shallow surface level at that. Anything else you find is your imagination.
I can name many bands that have had better 6th and 7th albums. eg. Porcupine Tree. Opeth. Radiohead. Faith No More.
Why should it annoy people that not everyone has the same opinions? I absolutely cannot stand Live's newest offering but I still love the first four albums. I have just as much right to express my opinion as people that love the album. Good for them.... I wish I could love it as well, I really do.

Btw, to the people that LIKE the SFBM production... do you know what good production is? I mean, its a subjective matter but it doesnt change the fact that SFBM is over compressed with no life and feeling.

SFBM sounds like perfect, and IS perfect.
The production is absolutely perfect
There is nothing shallow and a lot to appreciate on SFBM- it's all deep level, and a pretty deep level at that. If you cannot find that is lack of imagination.

Why should it annoy people that not everyone has the same opinions? I absolutely love Live's newest offering and I still love the first four albums. I have just as much right to express my opinion as people that hate the album. Bad for them.... I am glad I don’t hate it, really.

Btw, to the people that HATE the SFBM production... do you know what bad production is? I mean, its a subjective matter but it doesnt change the fact that SFBM is nicely produced with much life and feeling.

[pizan0]

Hey kids,

Ever since the leaks of the album starting coming out, I've noticed that I haven't really enjoyed viewing the message boards at fansoflive too much anymore. Let me start off by saying that even with all the negative hype surrounding this album, my first impression after only 2 listens was that I found it to be a very pleasant surprise. After 2 listens, I liked it better than BOP and liked it 100X better than V, which will (for me) probably always rank at the bottom of Live's albums.

Is SFBM Live of old, the Live that I initially went bonkers over? No, absolutely not. But I find that it does offer me something - somewhere in the mix of the album, I am able to extract the essence of what I love about this band. I can't get enough of these subtleties. For instance, mystery's beautiful lyrics and meaning, wings' catchy hook and great message, sofia's almost "bluesy" feeling, night of nights' amazing lyrical performance (imo) and its blend of new/old Live sounds.

With these aspects said, I do understand why some people would see this album as overproduced - I actually do agree with that to a certain extent. The "raw" feeling of the guitars is sort of lost at times - and although this may have been a production, and/or Live's decision, I do think an edgier factor would have made this album even better. Its great to read others' opinions about the album, good and bad. But what has been bothering me lately is not the negative reviews or anything like that, its the fact that I've noticed how some have completely given a negative spin on everything about the band. From Ed's attitude with the public, his voice, the setlists, the direction of the band's sound, the producer, the shows, the new album, the band not putting their heart into the album and letting ed run the show, etc.

The list goes on and on. What has become of many of the Live fans here? It seems that its not a matter of just not liking an album or the new direction of sound anymore...its now a matter of this seemingly "personal" vendetta against anything the band does!!! I was even surprised to see that NectarDan (no offense dan) has a quote on the bottom of his messages from a reviewer that completely bashes Live. Its almost as if it was an enjoyable experience to see that a reviewer bashes the band and the music. Again, let me repeat that other opinions don't affect the way I feel about Live's music, but I don't "enjoy" seeing negative reviews nor do I get a kick out of them!

Many many people have posted negative comments about Live and the new album which is obviously their opinion. But since when have so many people gotten so negative about almost everything Live does? I think this message board is an amazing forum and way to express our likes and dislikes about the band - but its sheer lack of positivity and open-mindedness (save a few people) have resulted in a feeling on the board that makes me much less excited to read.

I guess many people are just not happy with Live anymore....that's fine...that's your perogative. But for those of you that still have great hope, still love the band's sound, still respect them as artists, let's get some positive vibes back in here!

I apologize for the long post....just needed to get this off my chest.

[Costakoui]

Hey kids,

Ever since the leaks of the album starting coming out, I've noticed that I haven't really enjoyed viewing the message boards at fansoflive too much anymore. Let me start off by saying that even with all the negative hype surrounding this album, my first impression after only 2 listens was that I found it to be a very pleasant surprise. After 2 listens, I liked it better than BOP and liked it 100X better than V, which will (for me) probably always rank at the bottom of Live's albums.

But what has been bothering me lately is not the negative reviews or anything like that, its the fact that I've noticed how some have completely given a negative spin on everything about the band. From Ed's attitude with the public, his voice, the setlists, the direction of the band's sound, the producer, the shows, the new album, the band not putting their heart into the album and letting ed run the show, etc.

Because they do not like the album and because Live has not produced another TC they interpret all aspects of the band in such a way as to support their initial argument.

I agree with you that SFBM is better than BoP, much better than V and, to me, better than MJ.

[LiveattheOasis]

I think the negativity that some are having a hard time experiencing ... "COULD BE THE WINGS THAT, CARRY YOU HOME