Ed's Bootlegs (inc. Supreme Court summons), not so legal after all? Options

[ItchyTriggerFinger]

Certainly can't do that Pokey! .... wait ... paradox happening.

Slipped in a Who-ism. Nice!

[Pokey]

Slipped in a Who-ism. Nice!

.... I did? Cool! haha

[Wambangalang]

all of your talk of being passive agressive bremang is not without its irony. forming well written, restrained and lucid arguments agianst a bunch of passionate fanboys is the defenition of passive agression. you have obviously taken some kind of critical thinking classes or are just quite an intelligent chap no doubt, and clearly relish in the argument for argument's sake thing (i hope you are a lawyer for your beneficiary(s) sake), so i appreciate and enjoy all this shit, your points are un-debatable. but a fan of live couldnt possibly be so free from automatic emotional responses, with the cursing and the sweeping generalisations and such...i dont think you've cussed once. strange. let yourself go man. have a bottle of wine then post. oh you really must try it.

[Bremang]

all of your talk of being passive agressive bremang is not without its irony. forming well written, restrained and lucid arguments agianst a bunch of passionate fanboys is the defenition of passive agression. you have obviously taken some kind of critical thinking classes or are just quite an intelligent chap no doubt, and clearly relish in the argument for argument's sake thing (i hope you are a lawyer for your beneficiary(s) sake), so i appreciate and enjoy all this shit, your points are un-debatable. but a fan of live couldnt possibly be so free from automatic emotional responses, with the cursing and the sweeping generalisations and such...i dont think you've cussed once. strange. let yourself go man. have a bottle of wine then post. oh you really must try it.

Ha thanks well I didn't want it to carry on like that, I just wasn't really able to string anyone along for a couple questions without emotions getting in someones way, true. I don't think asking passionate people to speak rationally is being passive aggressive, never meant to harm by it. I think folks took it as me trying to claim that Ed had been good, rather just I don't think we really have enough to drag his silly name into the mud. If someone were to agree that it would not be unethical for Ed to have credit for his songs, and if it turns out to be legal, and we don't know the circumstance which led to this, then I can't point my finger at him yet. But then you'd also have to forgive and rationalize why he got suckier at music in general.

theres automatic heated one time generalizations, and then theres a few who give gigantic amounts of posts that seem really geared more to just change the landscape of the boards, to which I could barely discern whether or not it was propaganda coming from the TGF camp or just nutty fans. That and it just got boring to read.

But I do let my opinion out and curse occasionally, I think the last post I had was in that thread where Ed's street team received a letter ordering them to stuff good reviews down itunes to make up for the naturally occurring bad ones....and I think I said that was fucked


drunk posting haha sounds good, i'm sure it'll happen eventually

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jul 9 2010, 10:51 am

[LiveRoCkS77]

Ha well I didn't want it to carry on like that, I just wasn't really able to string anyone along for a couple questions without emotions getting in someones way, true. I think folks took it as me trying to claim that Ed had been good, rather just I don't think we really have enough to drag his silly name into the mud. If someone were to agree that it would not be unethical for Ed to have credit for his songs, and if it turns out to be legal, and we don't know the circumstance which led to this, then I can't point my finger at him yet. But then you'd also have to forgive and rationalize why he got suckier at music in general.

theres automatic heated one time generalizations, and then theres a few who give gigantic amounts of posts that seem really geared more to just change the landscape of the boards, to which I could barely discern whether or not it was propaganda coming from the TGF camp or just nutty fans. That and it just got boring to read.

But I do let my opinion out and curse occasionally, I think the last post I had was in that thread where Ed's street team received a letter ordering them to stuff good reviews down itunes to make up for the naturally occurring bad ones....and I think I said that was fucked

You can argue all the legal crap all you want. Fair enough, I'll concede you that.

But most times, common sense tells you most EVERYTHING you need to know. From there, you can speculate logically on what has or hasn't occurred with a great degree of accuracy most times.

For instance, a long time back, I posted on here about a show that LIVE did at the docks in Toronto. It sucked to say the least. Why? Something was wrong.

The body language on stage told me something was definately going on. Not maybe, not probably, but definately. I am far above average intelligence. My impression was that there was infighting in the band. Was I correct? Yes, I was. The reason for the infighting? Correct on that also....and that's not speculation, it's fact.

I've known for some time that this band was about to split. Nick acknowledged that he knew of some fighting as well and that it may lead to the bands demise. But at the same time, his lack of intelligence led him to tell me that I didn't know what I was talking about.

But boy do i ever!! This feud has been brewing since before BOP was made. Ed had become so egotistical, the boys were no longer a group, even then. Ed had resorted to having his own dressing room and not even speaking with the guys after shows a lot of the time, unless it was business related. His relationship with Gracy had soured especially, due to the plexiglass thing. Apparently it had become heated on several occassions. How heated? Can't tell you that much.

The songwriting thing? It was an issue leading to BOP. Ed wanted total control and the guys were buying it. Most contact wasn't through Ed apparently, but through management. There seemed to be agreements in place as to who would be allowed to do what. What those agreements were? I don't know on this one, but we'll surely find out.

SFBM? Was ED, all Ed. The music sucked and sales reflected that. The album sold basically nothing and the band became almost unmarketable. Three straight failures was enough for the other three guys. They wanted their input on the music again and rightfully so. The last three albums hadn't sold squat and the band wasn't drawing anyhwere near what they were on tour.

I think the turning point came on the song Believe...or now called Honest Man. It was CT's song and Ed wrote lyrics for it. Everything was good. The clash comes when CT breaks out the other ten ideas he had written and Ed puts up the stop sign. Ed wants to continue with the pretentious garbage we're hearing from him now.

Now as for what happens about these contracts and how they were discovered?? Only they know. And soon enough, everybody else likely will too.

But here's where the common sense thing comes in. Does it make sense that three guys with the character of Chad, Chad and Pat, would smear Ed because of creative differences?? Are people really that blind and fucking stupid?? Does it not make complete sense that they would've just said ok-bye, in that case? And went their own separate ways?? Does any one single person in their deranged little mind think that these three guys were so vindictive and disgruntled that they would make all this shit up?? Jesus fucking Christ, get a life already and use the motherfucking brain god gave you.

The three respectable remaining members of that band are ALL respectable men of decent and honest moral character. It's utterly unbeleiveable that anybody could even speculate that these guys would make any of this shit up. Their extreme reactions alone, tell me that they were hurt deeply by whatever it was they found out. So much so that they originally never even wanted to be in the same room with this asshole again. COMMON FUCKING SENSE.

Tells me that these three men aren't making anything up. In any other creative difference situation, it would have just been hiatus, it happens all the time. But the way this happened?? These guys were all lifelong friends. Common sense tells me the reaction of these three guys was due to some sort of serious breach of trust that led them to take drastic measures.

Whatever Ed or his management did was definately underhanded. Illegal or not, that's not for me to say. But their reaction tells me that it's someting you never do to a friend, never mind a lifelong friend. After all the stories we've heard about these guys being like brothers, it's obvious something terrible happened. Somebody did something they shouldn't have done period.

I'm siding one hundred percent with the three guys I know to have great moral character. It makes not one ounce of sense that three guys would just make shit up against a lifelong friend and cut all ties with him. If it does to you or anyone else, I feel sorry for your friends and families. It must be real hard discussing anything with complete dolts who have the logic comprehension of a giant fucking jungle turd.

Like I said, people like Nick seriously should not be allowed to breed.

[jclive]

You can argue all the legal crap all you want. Fair enough, I'll concede you that.

But most times, common sense tells you most EVERYTHING you need to know. From there, you can speculate logically on what has or hasn't occurred with a great degree of accuracy most times.

For instance, a long time back, I posted on here about a show that LIVE did at the docks in Toronto. It sucked to say the least. Why? Something was wrong.

The body language on stage told me something was definately going on. Not maybe, not probably, but definately. I am far above average intelligence. My impression was that there was infighting in the band. Was I correct? Yes, I was. The reason for the infighting? Correct on that also....and that's not speculation, it's fact.

I've known for some time that this band was about to split. Nick acknowledged that he knew of some fighting as well and that it may lead to the bands demise. But at the same time, his lack of intelligence led him to tell me that I didn't know what I was talking about.

But boy do i ever!! This feud has been brewing since before BOP was made. Ed had become so egotistical, the boys were no longer a group, even then. Ed had resorted to having his own dressing room and not even speaking with the guys after shows a lot of the time, unless it was business related. His relationship with Gracy had soured especially, due to the plexiglass thing. Apparently it had become heated on several occassions. How heated? Can't tell you that much.

The songwriting thing? It was an issue leading to BOP. Ed wanted total control and the guys were buying it. Most contact wasn't through Ed apparently, but through management. There seemed to be agreements in place as to who would be allowed to do what. What those agreements were? I don't know on this one, but we'll surely find out.

SFBM? Was ED, all Ed. The music sucked and sales reflected that. The album sold basically nothing and the band became almost unmarketable. Three straight failures was enough for the other three guys. They wanted their input on the music again and rightfully so. The last three albums hadn't sold squat and the band wasn't drawing anyhwere near what they were on tour.

I think the turning point came on the song Believe...or now called Honest Man. It was CT's song and Ed wrote lyrics for it. Everything was good. The clash comes when CT breaks out the other ten ideas he had written and Ed puts up the stop sign. Ed wants to continue with the pretentious garbage we're hearing from him now.

Now as for what happens about these contracts and how they were discovered?? Only they know. And soon enough, everybody else likely will too.

But here's where the common sense thing comes in. Does it make sense that three guys with the character of Chad, Chad and Pat, would smear Ed because of creative differences?? Are people really that blind and fucking stupid?? Does it not make complete sense that they would've just said ok-bye, in that case? And went their own separate ways?? Does any one single person in their deranged little mind think that these three guys were so vindictive and disgruntled that they would make all this shit up?? Jesus fucking Christ, get a life already and use the motherfucking brain god gave you.

The three respectable remaining members of that band are ALL respectable men of decent and honest moral character. It's utterly unbeleiveable that anybody could even speculate that these guys would make any of this shit up. Their extreme reactions alone, tell me that they were hurt deeply by whatever it was they found out. So much so that they originally never even wanted to be in the same room with this asshole again. COMMON FUCKING SENSE.

Tells me that these three men aren't making anything up. In any other creative difference situation, it would have just been hiatus, it happens all the time. But the way this happened?? These guys were all lifelong friends. Common sense tells me the reaction of these three guys was due to some sort of serious breach of trust that led them to take drastic measures.

Whatever Ed or his management did was definately underhanded. Illegal or not, that's not for me to say. But their reaction tells me that it's someting you never do to a friend, never mind a lifelong friend. After all the stories we've heard about these guys being like brothers, it's obvious something terrible happened. Somebody did something they shouldn't have done period.

I'm siding one hundred percent with the three guys I know to have great moral character. It makes not one ounce of sense that three guys would just make shit up against a lifelong friend and cut all ties with him. If it does to you or anyone else, I feel sorry for your friends and families. It must be real hard discussing anything with complete dolts who have the logic comprehension of a giant fucking jungle turd.

Like I said, people like Nick seriously should not be allowed to breed.

Dude, seriously, who pissed in your cheerios this morning!? You come across like a whiney child throwing a temper tantrum. It doesnt do anything for your argument.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

Dude, seriously, who pissed in your cheerios this morning!? You come across like a whiney child throwing a temper tantrum. It doesnt do anything for your argument.

And you come across like someone who hasn't been on this board long enough to enjoy his posts.

[jclive]

And you come across like someone who hasn't been on this board long enough to enjoy his posts.

Been on this board since it began. It reminds me to be thankful for a lot of things in my life!

[OutToDry]

Hey, like it or not Liverocks has it on the head. The answer to all these thousands of wasted words is pretty much summed up in his post. Ed's been alienated for so long from what made him be recognizable......that it's pretty much 10 years of his solo work. I took a collective shit after V hoping for something else, now with all the facts on the table, I was right in telling myself FUCK YOU ED!!!

Now I get to hear 10 years of bottled up artistical magic with C & C & P, along with KM & SH. Do I hate Ed K for his ego trip, absofuckinglutely.

[jclive]

Hey, like it or not Liverocks has it on the head. The answer to all these thousands of wasted words is pretty much summed up in his post. Ed's been alienated for so long from what made him be recognizable......that it's pretty much 10 years of his solo work. I took a collective shit after V hoping for something else, now with all the facts on the table, I was right in telling myself FUCK YOU ED!!!

Now I get to hear 10 years of bottled up artistical magic with C & C & P, along with KM & SH. Do I hate Ed K for his ego trip, absofuckinglutely.

Round and round we go. The Live soap opera!

About the 'bottled up artistical magic.' I'd somewhat agree with you on that one, but dammit WHY did they go and pick Kevin Martin to sing!

[OutToDry]

because his voice fits it. They knew him, they wanted to collaborate for a long time.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

Maybe because Kevin's voice fits their style perfectly? Just a hunch.

[OutToDry]

exit old singer, enter new singer.....old singer gone soft

[+Ed+]

exit old singer, enter new singer.....old singer gone soft

Wrong, my friend. They are not Live.

[Bremang]

Hey, like it or not Liverocks has it on the head. The answer to all these thousands of wasted words is pretty much summed up in his post. Ed's been alienated for so long from what made him be recognizable......that it's pretty much 10 years of his solo work. I took a collective shit after V hoping for something else, now with all the facts on the table, I was right in telling myself FUCK YOU ED!!!

Now I get to hear 10 years of bottled up artistical magic with C & C & P, along with KM & SH. Do I hate Ed K for his ego trip, absofuckinglutely.

Your main point here is that you don't like Ed's music for the past 10 years. Liverocks was mainly saying that Ed was unfair to the band. If you think Liverocks hit it on the head, I wonder what you think would be the ideal situation that would have been fair to everyone, including Ed.

Keep in mind it would not be ideal for anyone to collaborate if they have artistic differences, and if Ed went solo for a bit then the band might still be in the same predicament when he returned, also that he offered to quit, and eventually decided to go solo before being fired.

Also keep in mind that in order to be in line w. the proposal of Ed's intentional misconduct, after you come up with the ideal situation you'd also have to say why it is completely Ed's fault for intentionally being very unfair for not having chosen this ideal path.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jul 9 2010, 2:44 pm