Alive, Only for those who have actually listened to it please! Options

[Pokey]

I just don't understand the reviews that find the lyrics to be subtle in this department.

I figure there are a few reasons.

You would have the people who think that just because the word Jesus isn't specifically said that he's being subtle, these people are either people who don't want to accept that he is singing about Jesus and Christianity and are using the subtle comment as a way of blocking it out so they can still enjoy it maybe.

You could be saying it's subtle like I think Nick is, in hopes that someone who would normally be turned off by christian music reads it and goes "oh man if it's not subtle then I'm definitely going to spend my money on it". Ed gets money. Nick gets happy.

I think to really think he's being subtle is just not listening to it. Fish has brought up information about some priest he may be following, but he's still been talking about bible references and such in interviews and such .. he may not be evangelical like Fish stated, but it's out and out Christian themes and music.

As a person who was brought up as a Catholic, attended Catholica schools, and then later decided to denounce the religion entirely and know it's not for me ... I just can't get behind the themes at all, it's a real turn off.

To me this album is bad on 2 fronts, there's the themes and then there is the actual material .. catchiness is it's best quality. But bland muscianship, predictable songs, very uncreative and lazy lyrics ... I just think Ed's gone out of his way to tailor make an album that is the exact opposite of everything I'd want from him .. the only way he could make it any more unappealing to me is if he sang the entire album word for word in falsetto

[+Ed+]

You have a problem with your brain, report this to Dr Ex immediately in the new thread!

deumn

[+Ed+]

Alive is getting a second spin in a row here.

Must be the heat

[crazy1]

WOW...you guys okay? Did you guys get into the Ed Kool aid or something?!! OH YEAH!!!

[FishOutaWater]

Fish has brought up information about some priest he may be following, but he's still been talking about bible references and such in interviews and such .. he may not be evangelical like Fish stated, but it's out and out Christian themes and music.

I think that at the center of Ed's spirituality for the last ten years, is Ken Wilber. Ken Wilber has a sort of guru status, and Ed seems to be in one of those classic "eccentric rock star follows guru" patterns for a long time now. First it was Krishnamurti jolting Ed out of his stoic Catholic upbringing. Then Ed found Wilber. Wilber is a deep thinking genius. I have gotten into conversation with Ed about Ken Wlber. Around the time when Ed was into Genpo Roshi, who is one of Ken Wilber's spiritual faculty members, Ed signed an autograph for me that said "Everything is happening in Big Mind". He told you "you have to try this! It will blow you away!"

Around June 2005, Ken Wilber started the Integral Spirituality Center. He has had a few conferences. For the first conference, he wrote this brilliant piece called Integral Sprituality. The first draft was free as a pdf download on the internet for a little while after he wrote it and now you can buy it. I downloaded it and read it. It is really brilliant. He allegedly wrote the whole thing on a train ride in a few hours. If you read the thing, that claim comes close to a claim that he turned water into wine - but that is for another discussion. In the beginning, he summarizes the thesis as follows:

"I won't give a summary of the conclusions this essay reaches, but simply point
out that it addresses perhaps 4 or 5 of the most pressing issues concerning spirituality—
such as stages of spiritual development, meditative training, Eastern and Western
approaches to religion—and their relation to currents in the modern and postmodern
world.

I do believe that this essay points the way to a role for religion in the modern and
postmodern world that has been overlooked entirely, and this radically new role for
religion not only works, it holds a very real type of salvation for humanity on the whole."

So Ken basically tried to create a framework for all world religions to offer a new path to salvation in a post-religious world.

The interesting thing about WIlber's thesis is that it categorized stages of development from an "archaic" to "magical" to "mythic" to "rational" to "nondual" stages. Incidentally, the lower stages are sort of indicative of evangelical Christianity and voodoo witch doctors. A fully awakened, nondual stage is more indicative of a fully realized, enlighted zen practitioner. This is part of the reason why I find it surprising that Ed has returned to his Christian roots after realizing so much spiritual development.

Ken developed a grid that demonstrates the concept. He suggests that mystical expereinces and heightened states of spirituality happen to various people in various places and times throughout history. And depending upon what level of development you are at dictates how you interpret that experience. It is the "lens" through which you see the experience. For example, a Christian fundamentalist in Texas may have a hightened spiritual experience and to that person, it will clearly and unambiguously be interpretted as the Lord Jesus Christ speaking to the person and offering a direct conversation (or something like that). An enlightened individual at a higher stage of development may interpret that same experience as pure consciousness and true reality and relate it in a different way than the person at the "magic" level. So the same experience, but interpretted and understood in different ways depending upon the stage of developments.

The faculty of the ongoing Integral Spiritual Institute includes Genpo Roshi. It also includes Father Thomas Keating, as well as a Rabbi, buddhists, etc. Keating is not your typical Catholic priest. He developed this thing called "Contemplative Prayer" which is basically meditation and mysticism within the framework of Christianity. Ed has attened at least one of the conferences. I read that online a long time ago. I know Ed is still associated with Wilber. So I think that Ed is still influenced by Wilber and his posse. And I think that perhaps Ken Wilber may have opened the door and shown the path for Ed to get reintroduced to Christianity through this thinking. I am guessing that Ed has met Father Keating.

But who knows, maybe Ed is just a plain old Christian now and I have overanalyzed it.

[Hoodstock]

Alright - I waited for my album in the mail and gave it a ton of spins. Here's my 2 cents:

Quick Thoughts On Some Songs:

Drive - Great opening song for this album. Works well.

The Great Beyond - Not the best song on the album but it is my favorite by far. Love the riff. Reminds me of Magnum PI.

Stand - Even though Daughtry helped with Drink, this song seems like a Daughtry song. Another solid song.

In Your Light - Was Eh at first, but this song is about Ed's wife. With a hot wife and two kids of my own I can relate and respect it.

Rome - The only song on the album I don't care for. I don't hate it, I just don't dig it at all.

Soul Whispers - Cool song

Others Not Mentioned - I enjoy them all

Bonus Material: Eat Your Love should have been Need Your Love. The title is cheesy. The music is good (almost like a Stage type song) but the vocals do not match the intensity. A New World is a fantastic song that should have been on the album.

The biggest thing I noticed compared to Live wasn't the drums, it was the guitar work. It was different, but not in a bad way.

Overall: I have to say after reading the boards I was skeptical but hopefully optimistic for this album. After listing to it since Tuesday I have to say I actually love this album. I enjoy it more thatn V, BOP, SFBM, and MJ (keep in mind that I never liked the MJ album recordings, I do enjoy some of the songs live much more).

In my opinion this is the best album Ed has worked on post TDTH. I'm actually thrilled about it and plan to enjoy it all summer long.

[OutToDry]

Ed kool aid,,,,,,,,,help I need to call Jim Jones'


Ooooooooo
I need your bread
Your words life and love to me Lord
Ooooooooo
I need your bread
I wanna eat your love
I need your bread
I wanna eat your love

[Pokey]

I think that at the center of Ed's spirituality for the last ten years, is Ken Wilber. Ken Wilber has a sort of guru status, and Ed seems to be in one of those classic "eccentric rock star follows guru" patterns for a long time now. First it was Krishnamurti jolting Ed out of his stoic Catholic upbringing. Then Ed found Wilber. Wilber is a deep thinking genius. I have gotten into conversation with Ed about Ken Wlber. Around the time when Ed was into Genpo Roshi, who is one of Ken Wilber's spiritual faculty members, Ed signed an autograph for me that said "Everything is happening in Big Mind". He told you "you have to try this! It will blow you away!"

Around June 2005, Ken Wilber started the Integral Spirituality Center. He has had a few conferences. For the first conference, he wrote this brilliant piece called Integral Sprituality. The first draft was free as a pdf download on the internet for a little while after he wrote it and now you can buy it. I downloaded it and read it. It is really brilliant. He allegedly wrote the whole thing on a train ride in a few hours. If you read the thing, that claim comes close to a claim that he turned water into wine - but that is for another discussion. In the beginning, he summarizes the thesis as follows:

"I won't give a summary of the conclusions this essay reaches, but simply point
out that it addresses perhaps 4 or 5 of the most pressing issues concerning spirituality—
such as stages of spiritual development, meditative training, Eastern and Western
approaches to religion—and their relation to currents in the modern and postmodern
world.

I do believe that this essay points the way to a role for religion in the modern and
postmodern world that has been overlooked entirely, and this radically new role for
religion not only works, it holds a very real type of salvation for humanity on the whole."

So Ken basically tried to create a framework for all world religions to offer a new path to salvation in a post-religious world.

The interesting thing about WIlber's thesis is that it categorized stages of development from an "archaic" to "magical" to "mythic" to "rational" to "nondual" stages. Incidentally, the lower stages are sort of indicative of evangelical Christianity and voodoo witch doctors. A fully awakened, nondual stage is more indicative of a fully realized, enlighted zen practitioner. This is part of the reason why I find it surprising that Ed has returned to his Christian roots after realizing so much spiritual development.

Ken developed a grid that demonstrates the concept. He suggests that mystical expereinces and heightened states of spirituality happen to various people in various places and times throughout history. And depending upon what level of development you are at dictates how you interpret that experience. It is the "lens" through which you see the experience. For example, a Christian fundamentalist in Texas may have a hightened spiritual experience and to that person, it will clearly and unambiguously be interpretted as the Lord Jesus Christ speaking to the person and offering a direct conversation (or something like that). An enlightened individual at a higher stage of development may interpret that same experience as pure consciousness and true reality and relate it in a different way than the person at the "magic" level. So the same experience, but interpretted and understood in different ways depending upon the stage of developments.

The faculty of the ongoing Integral Spiritual Institute includes Genpo Roshi. It also includes Father Thomas Keating, as well as a Rabbi, buddhists, etc. Keating is not your typical Catholic priest. He developed this thing called "Contemplative Prayer" which is basically meditation and mysticism within the framework of Christianity. Ed has attened at least one of the conferences. I read that online a long time ago. I know Ed is still associated with Wilber. So I think that Ed is still influenced by Wilber and his posse. And I think that perhaps Ken Wilber may have opened the door and shown the path for Ed to get reintroduced to Christianity through this thinking. I am guessing that Ed has met Father Keating.

But who knows, maybe Ed is just a plain old Christian now and I have overanalyzed it.

The one thing that's changed I noticed is when Ed talks, he used to name check people like Ken Wilber and Krishnamurti ... he doesn't do this anymore .. it just seems like a straight up direct link to god bypassing guru town.

The whole Ken Wilber/Intergral Naked thing used to really annoy me. It just came off as a whole bunch of people sitting around saying really basic stuff in the most complex and round about way as possible to come off sounding deep.
I'm sure there's more in it than that, and theres good messages and such but any reading I did regarding that just made me frustrated at how these people talked.

Ed needs to start following Farther Bob Maguire from down here in Melbourne, now if there's any Christian leader I can get behind it's that guy.

[+Ed+]

I even have a Ken wilber book... Not that I ever read it

[Pokey]

I even have a Ken wilber book... Not that I ever read it

It's probably just the story of Goldilocks and the 3 bears but somehow spread over 3000 pages.

[Aitkens]

HAVE YOU ALL GONE FUCKING MAD?!

[FishOutaWater]

HAVE YOU ALL GONE FUCKING MAD?!

Why do you ask?

Ooooooh ooooooh. Lord, child. Take me to the desert and drink me like water.

LOL!

Right now, let's classify Alive as my "guilty pleasure". It's like marshmellows. It's light and fluffy and lacks real substance. It's overly sweet. I don't want to have too much or I'll get sick. But I like marshmellows when I'm in the right mood. And they're better when they're toasted, or when I'm toasted, to keep this anaolgy "Alive" (pun intended).

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Jul 8 2010, 4:11 pm

[OutToDry]

I doubt this shows up on someone's twitter guilty pleasures feature....LOL

Cant get the thing out of my head...........Ooooooooh I need your bread........buy my coffee and pendants shepherd children........

[Aitkens]

Its like heroin.

Yeah, sure I'll try it out. I hear its the best high ever. Maybe one time won't be so bad, there's no way that I can get hooked. Next thing you know you're stealing your grandmother's jewelry, doing break-ins, and sucking dick to get enough money together to score a hit. Get help, now.

It leads down a road you don't want to go down.

We've seen it a million times in the movies and on "Intervention".

[OutToDry]

LOL @ aitkens!!!! Way to real us in back from the edge


Newsflash......I said Soul Whispers was a Lindsey Buckingham hack job. I think I found the song. I'm So Afraid. The riff & melody & guitar / drum progression sounds awfully familiar. I will do more comparison to be sure. I am no musician but Ed's song reminded me of something when I heard it.....the title tipped me off where to look.