Ed's Bootlegs (inc. Supreme Court summons), not so legal after all? Options

[crazy1]

I don't really hold an opinion yet as I don't know the exact circumstances, but would you think it is unethical for Ed to get more credit for his songs?

Or do you simply dislike his stylistic choices, or new inspirations, as a songwriter?

I think its more that most people just hate that Ed doesn't rock as much to them anymore, and he has gained a new audience, and decided to take credit for his music. Is that what makes someone a douchebag?

I don't like the way he went about gaining control of the band by threatening to leave...that is my point and the reason I think he is a douchebag.

[lovemachine97]

I think we can all agree there was some level of douchebaggery going on here. It is rock and roll, so it is difficult to say that, when hearing only one side, that the other side MUST be to blame. If it all occurred as stated, then I think Ed is a bit of a douchebag. I mean, the band didn't start off as, like, Eddie K and the +Live+ers, or something. Each member of the band obviously thought that every other member of the band contributed something important. Maybe that changed. Maybe the guys stopped contributing good stuff. Maybe Ed stopped letting them contribute good stuff. Maybe the guys never contributed anything in the writing process and Ed was tired of splitting the profits unfairly. Maybe Ed just assumed more and more power over the band.

Could it have been worse? Sure. Ed could have gone the Axl Rose route and called his new album +Live+. But, he didn't. He went solo. Maybe that is more ego thinking his name is important, maybe it is giving the band name it's due and respecting it as an entity.

Let's take some lessons from other bands, though. When Scott Weiland was going through his highly publicized arrests in the late '90s/early '00s, he wasn't the only member of STP with a smack habit. He was the only one getting arrested, yes, but Dean DeLeo was a big drug user as well. It was the "hypocrisy" of Dean's public statements about their "singer's drug problems" forcing delays, etc., that angered Scott Weiland. But he looked like the douchebag.

When Velvet Revolver was forced to postpone tour dates, the band let Weiland take the hits in the press. But, privately, it was Matt Sorum's relapse that delayed the tour. In fact, Slash, Duff, Matt, Scott and Slash (Kushner did not) all relapsed, creating problems. Who took the hits in the press? Weiland. Who made comments about him in the press? Sorum, who was the real reason for the delay. That would piss me, like Weiland, off.

The point is that we don't know what happened, we really don't. I reviewed a +Live+ concert from a year ago in Anaheim on this board, and it was a far cry from seeing them years ago. Ed did not interact with the other band members at all. Between songs, he went back and spoke into a mic (that was not hooked up to the PA), then came back forward and did songs. He ACTED like it was a solo show. The others seemed "meh" about even being there. That also makes it look like Ed was the problem.

But who really knows? Bands have survived with strong, asshole-ish singer personalities, like Pearl Jam, but the members he butted heads with are gone (Dave Krusen, Dave Abbruzzese) and replaced with guys he did like (Jack Irons til he left, and Matt Cameron). It was a relapse that caused Steven Tyler to act erratically, but he finally realized HE was the asshole. STP needed to take a break, and us fans NEVER thought they'd even speak to each other again, much less play together. But who called Scott to congratulate him when VR's album went number 1? Dean Deleo. Little did we know, time passed, wounds healed, and childhood friendships returned.

Hope seems lost, those we looked up to seem to be disappointing us...but we don't know what happened, and we don't know what could happen. Maybe +Live+ will triumphantly return with a critically-acclaimed new record, a la STP...ya never know...

[Bremang]

I do not remember where it was


I quoted you based on what I had to say a couple of days ago in another thread

I wasn't there, care to explain already? or are you not ready to stand for your own words?

[Bremang]

I don't like the way he went about gaining control of the band by threatening to leave...that is my point and the reason I think he is a douchebag.

Yeah but that is one pejorative way of looking at it, which was given to us by TGF...

The other might be that Ed wanted to take credit for his songs. I'm asking you, is that unethical? You make it sound like Ed forced them into it. He never had control of the band, the band have control of themselves and they made an agreement. We don't know how the whole thing was approached. All we know is the ultimatum was the conclusion.

[OutToDry]

I'm trying to see eye to eye, but you aren't really explaining it. I don't see alot of posts on how Ed was out to screw the band from the very beginning....go ahead and clearly show how it is a reasonable possibility....

To me his out front ego appeared more and more with each passing year. The MTV doc in 1994/95 of the guys coming up the steps of their school....Ed clearly states in a kind of serious / jovial voice....."little do they know, I am taking over" They other guys laugh at him in jest, but I see through that statement with thinking there is way more to that. I've explained this before in other threads. So if you don't want to look for them, fine.

He's aloof, shy, a lot of disingenous with his interviews, many people have met him and given their personal view of his douchebaggery......he seems out of touch and he kept the friend thing long enough. HE's a classic frontman case and it killed hi band.

This post has been edited by OutToDry: Jul 6 2010, 2:14 pm

[OutToDry]

Reading the court docs shows one thing, Ed had a hand in the artistical douchebaggery and that douche was Levin. He's actually the one moreso being sued. If you look at the plantiff list vs the defendent. Pat is named as the plaintiff 3 times. He's the quiet more reserved one, but he and Gracey were the rock of the band.........this alone tells me that these charges are not full of hot air.

[crazy1]

Yeah but that is one pejorative way of looking at it, which was given to us by TGF...

The other might be that Ed wanted to take credit for his songs. I'm asking you, is that unethical? You make it sound like Ed forced them into it. He never had control of the band, the band have control of themselves and they made an agreement. We don't know how the whole thing was approached. All we know is the ultimatum was the conclusion.

There is no problem with his selfishness to want to take credit for his songs. But to tell C, C & P if he can't he will leave the band? Stop.....he is the biggest douche because of it. He should of just left. They were a better band when they all wrote the music together. In my opinion.

[Pokey]

There is no problem with his selfishness to want to take credit for his songs. But to tell C, C & P if he can't he will leave the band? Stop.....he is the biggest douche because of it. He should of just left. They were a better band when they all wrote the music together. In my opinion.

This harks back to so many points people have made too. Rather than go to these guys with his ultimatum why couldn't have done some solo side projects then with some new band. Give Live a break, rather than actually putting this sort of thing on his long time friends. I don't care how people try to spin it, that would have been the right thing to do.

[OutToDry]

Perfectly stated Pokey. His meglomania didn't allow him to see clearly on this very issue...or he was given terrible advice by Levin. Seeing how CB is approaching their upcoming hiatus seems to indicate good communication and common ground. Ed came with an ultimatum, as I said, it is part of his MO.

[+Ed+]

I wasn't there, care to explain already? or are you not ready to stand for your own words?

I will not waste me time to explain what I already did twice. Care to switch the brain on and understand?

[OutToDry]

Bre gets lost in the threads a lot Ed, don't get too upset. He loses track of previously stated posts.

[+Ed+]

Bre gets lost in the threads a lot Ed, don't get too upset. He loses track of previously stated posts.

I am not upset, my friend. I am just sik of stupidity and causious attempts to take pot shots at me

[jclive]

This harks back to so many points people have made too. Rather than go to these guys with his ultimatum why couldn't have done some solo side projects then with some new band. Give Live a break, rather than actually putting this sort of thing on his long time friends. I don't care how people try to spin it, that would have been the right thing to do.

Maybe Ed had already decided to go solo. And maybe, just maybe, his buddies Pat, Chad, and Chad wanted to talk him into staying with Live instead. One thing leads to another, and Ed says he'll stay, but only under these conditions... An 'ultimatum' could reasonably be reached from this angle. But oh wait, that doesnt fit very well with the 'everything TGF says is golden, and da EK is a douche because he took over the band and screwed his friends (I only believe this because everything TGF says is golden)' crowd.

You guys all seem to assume that Ed just walked up to his friends one day, handed them a contract that said he was taking over the band or would leave, and then forced them to sign it.

So to make a long story short, we have no idea how this all transpired. And we never will.

Now let's all continue to beat the dead horse...

[Infrequent Poster]

I always stand by my own words.

By the way Nick or Dangum - who is infrequent poster? Seems to be another person on the board, probably with multiple accounts already, based on the types of posts, the amount of them, and the amazing Reputation points based on nothing.

I am six other posters on this board and 12 of the guests at any one time. My primary other names are OuttoDry and SJN1279. I frequently have arguments with myself for the board's amusement, which is primarily also me.

If you don't believe that, a more apt name would have been "sporadic poster" as I can post quite frequently for a few months and then vanish just as quickly for several more, really depends on the ol' work schedule. I'm more active in the TGF forums then I am anywhere else on this board as Ed has left the genre of music I prefer. The vast majority of my rep points (I think, not sure) have come from ripping of radio interviews and acoustic clips from TGF. If you don't like my rep points you can knock them down for every post I have, I don't mind, I'm finding myself here less and less frequently with gracious fans up (plus it took me months before I ever even realized I had reputation points).

[lovemachine97]

Maybe Ed had already decided to go solo. And maybe, just maybe, his buddies Pat, Chad, and Chad wanted to talk him into staying with Live instead. One thing leads to another, and Ed says he'll stay, but only under these conditions... An 'ultimatum' could reasonably be reached from this angle. But oh wait, that doesnt fit very well with the 'everything TGF says is golden, and da EK is a douche because he took over the band and screwed his friends (I only believe this because everything TGF says is golden)' crowd.

You guys all seem to assume that Ed just walked up to his friends one day, handed them a contract that said he was taking over the band or would leave, and then forced them to sign it.

So to make a long story short, we have no idea how this all transpired. And we never will.

Now let's all continue to beat the dead horse...

Like we have both said, we definitely don't know. I do think, however, we will someday. I think there are several likely scenarios. But the Axl Rose-I-won't-go-on-until-you-sign-the-GnR-name-over-to-me has happened before, so I wouldn't put it past Ed.

On the other hand, as I pointed out, there are several scenarios, including what you wrote, where the band could be less-than innocent in the whole matter.

Really, though, singers know they have an upper hand on the rest of the guys, especially if they write songs and play guitar. It makes your negotiations better for you. The rest of the band knows this too. It's unfortunate this has played out as it has, but I'd say it is more likely to go the route of STP than CCR. They'll play together again someday, I think.