Ed Kowalczyk Rejuvenated By Solo Career (article) Options

[mattyeagles]

Possibly the best post on the subject yet. We disagree on some of the details, but all in all total agreement.

\
agreed, very nicely written...good post

[Sakhmet2]

On the one hand, we have

Ed is cheating the fans because he doen't read the lyrics off a stand like a "real man"

At least Michael Stipe, from REM, was man enough to admit that he forgot some lyrics so he does every show with a musical stand in front of him with the lyrics on it.

But on the other hand,
Ed sucks because he reads the lyrics off a musical stand

I will just add to the "Ed cheating the fans" debate that, in addition to forgetting lyrics (which doesn't really bother me that much), the last 3 or 4 times that I saw Live, Ed pulled out a lyric sheet on one of those little metal music stands and read the lyrics to God Don't Change and I think one other song (maybe Believe or Forever or something like that).
.....
I was thinking, WTF, can't he memorize these songs and get up and perform them for the crowd without standing in front of a goofy, piano-teacher-looking music stand reading the lyrics?!?! Over the weekend I will post pictures of this.
I'm just saying is all.

So literally, you guys have damned him if he does and damned him if he doesn't. If you intend to steamroll the opposition with your logic, now is the time to deal with those contradictions.

This post has been edited by Sakhmet2: Jun 23 2010, 3:00 pm

[thefunkyredcaboose]

On the one hand, we have

Ed is cheating the fans because he doen't read the lyrics off a stand like a "real man"

But on the other hand,
Ed sucks because he reads the lyrics off a musical stand
So literally, you guys have damned him if he does and damned him if he doesn't. If you intend to steamroll the opposition with your logic, now is the time to deal with those contradictions.

How does copying quotes from two different posters prove anything? I mean, really?

[Sakhmet2]

How does copying quotes from two different posters prove anything? I mean, really?

Jeez I begin to sympathize with Brem.

I will spell it out - again.

It means that it doesn't matter what Ed does, some people will use it as "proof" that he has been "cheating" the fans and ruined Live blahblahblah, even if they contradict people supposedly making the same argument.

This post has been edited by Sakhmet2: Jun 23 2010, 4:26 pm

[OutToDry]

Who knows why they continued.

They still had fans.
Ed is a songwriter/singer, its how he makes a living.
They felt it was worth it perhaps.

I brought up his voice only as part of a response to your 5 points, not saying that the voice was the root of all this. I'd imagine it might have to also do with getting older, not having the same inspiration, the change in music trends, music industry, who knows.

What exactly do you think was best for Live. Even if you could figure this out, hindsight is 20/20. Would you say Ed willingly cheated the fans?

Ed's been blowing donkey dick on all fronts for 10-11 years.........i stopped attending shows in 2004. I may have missed some renewed set lists of my old fav's but not much else. I've felt Ed's been cheating the fans since the summer of 2000. His stage talks of Fuck with the Mainstream crap and all the other garbage we've gotten.



Hey we wont see eye to eye, but that's why we're here blasting off on each other.

[Bremang]

Ed's been blowing donkey dick on all fronts for 10-11 years.........i stopped attending shows in 2004. I may have missed some renewed set lists of my old fav's but not much else. I've felt Ed's been cheating the fans since the summer of 2000. His stage talks of Fuck with the Mainstream crap and all the other garbage we've gotten.



Hey we wont see eye to eye, but that's why we're here blasting off on each other.

I agree with how much the music has gone downhill, but how do you equate your opinion of the music with Ed cheating the fans

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jun 23 2010, 4:32 pm

[OutToDry]

Live got $50,000 to $75,000 per night to play in front of audiences in the US. Probably more overseas. They maintained a pretty good touring schedule. I'm guessing each of the members of the band made a decent six figure income from live each year for the last decade. There was probably more money in touring than there was from publishing from SFBM. I would guess that is why C, C & P signed the ultimatum contract. That, in addition to their friendship, enjoyment of playing with each other, and love of the road, fans and playing before an audience. I would guess that the thought of doing something like TGF didn't really present itself as a viable option for their future as musicians playing in a good band before a loyal audience. They probably wanted to hold onto their connection with the loyal fanbase of Live, and given the choice of Ed walking away and watching the temple they built get destroyed, or take it with an ultimatum, they chose the ultimatum.

I don't fault Ed for making the ultimatum or them for taking it. I don't think they took it purely out of friendship. Obviously, Ed didn't make it from a motivation of friendship. It was business. Ed grabbed the creative reigns and then wanted the majority of the financial compensation to go with it.

How should C, C & P feel?

1. Ed took over creative control and went in a direction that C,C, and P didn't like. Live went soft and churchy. The popularity of Live went down the tubes as soon as the other three were excluded.

2. C, C and P took the ultimatum and accepted their 10% each.

3. Then they find out that Ed signed a publishing contract for $1,000,000 and didn't tell them and didn't give them their $100,000 each.

4. Then Ed starts touring the world, in all of Live's best markets where Live's loyal fanbase lives. Ed is playing Live's music catalog and selling tickets to the Live fanbase all for himself, to the exclusion of the other three.

5. Then Ed is selling recordings on his website of these songs from Live's catalog to Live fans to the exclusion of the other three. And he is not even paying them royalties for the sales.

6. Ed was using Live's mailing list, which is it's proprietary intellectual property, which has value, for his own exclusive purposes to the exclusion of the other three.

7. Ed started selling trinkets and coffee and T-shirts and stick figures to Live's fanbase on his website. He was cheapening the brand.


Ed was looking to make a buck off of the loyal fanbase that was the bread and butter of their careers and their life's work. He was essentially "consuming" the "commodity" that is the Live fanbase. The fanbase has a capacity to consume concert tickets, music and merchandise. And Ed not only forced an ultimatum to take 70% for himself, but then he set out to exclude C, C and P from publishing money with the secret contract and then he went out alone to make as much as he could for himself without the other guys. They stood by and watched this happen to their livelihood and the friendship.

How should they feel? Should they be so p*ssed that they might fire off a few impationed tweets?

Imagine how good Live could have been if the 4 guys continued to stay friends, and wrote everything together, living around York and Lancaster, drinking beers and rehearsing in garages. We might have gotten 5 more MJ's or TC's.

ABSOLUETELY THE BEST POST ON THIS BOARD THIS YEAR



Take a Bow Fish!!! +100000000000000000000









This post has been edited by OutToDry: Jun 23 2010, 4:34 pm

[OutToDry]

I agree with how much the music has gone downhill, but how do you equate your opinion of the music with Ed cheating the fans

I personally feel cheated with what their music became.....he took control and forced his way.



I think the sales of the last 3 albums speak to my opinion very loudly.

[Bremang]

I don't recall legitimately not understanding anything you or anyone else on this board has ever said, and my post on this thread was not even directed at anything you posted.

So, maybe for the first time, I don't really understand why this conversation is even happening. But even that not understanding is more of the "wow this is stupid" variety.

EDIT: Because I've been trying to stop using the word "retarded"

You said you didn't understand me twice on this thread, and two other times on the boards. Its just a pattern, I didn't realize you were sarcastic this last time, it looked genuine...So you just think it is stupid.

[Bremang]

The solution to forgetting lyrics isn't to get a music stand.

i wasn't saying that

[Bremang]

I personally feel cheated with what their music became.....he took control and forced his way.



I think the sales of the last 3 albums speak to my opinion very loudly.

Album sales reflect many things, such as the industry.
Speak for yourself, not for "the fans"

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jun 23 2010, 4:43 pm

[OutToDry]

Album sales reflect many things, such as the industry.
Speak for yourself, not for "the fans"

Whatever floats your boat.

When I said cheated the fans, others shared in MY opinion.

and Opinion are Like Assholes........everybody has one.

This post has been edited by OutToDry: Jun 23 2010, 4:46 pm

[Bremang]

Whatever floats your boat.

When I said cheated the fans, others shared in MY opinion.

and Opinion are Like Assholes........everybody has one.

You said he cheated the fans. Generalizing. Then you think that he somehow cheated you and others because you dont like the music anymore. nice try

[OutToDry]

You honestly like the crap they (Ed) has brought out? I feel cheated when I bought SFBM and listened to it and was really pissed by what I heard on most of it.........I should have returned it, but I didn't.

See Fish's excerpt, he's summed it nicely.

[Bremang]

Oh, OK, now I see what you are saying.

Everyone was complaining that Ed would sing songs and screw up the lyrics because he forgot the lyrics. I am saying that does not bother me that much. I can give him slack for that. Sometimes you screw up and forget lyrics. What did bother me, was seeing Ed take out a music stand with a lyric sheet and read the lyrics to an entire song onstage. That seemed to be unprepared and half-assed. I thought that he should have been more prepared, memorized the lyrics and rehearsed before going on stage before thousands of people to put on a show for them and get paid a nice 5 figure wage for doing it.

I guess thats a fine line between forgetting the lyrics and not practicing enough to remember them. He played some of the same songs every damn concert for years, I don't know how much more preparation one could have.