Ed Kowalczyk Rejuvenated By Solo Career (article) Options

[thefunkyredcaboose]

It might help to trace the conversation back with myself and OTDry. To sum up my most recent response to OTD, he was questioning why Live didn't quit earlier on. Then he blamed Ed for the past 10 years of Live. I gave reasons why Live might have decided to continue, and based on these reasons and others, ask him how he can blame the past 10 years on Ed still.

With all due respect, I think it is you who doesn't understand much of what I say. Or, at least, sarcasm. One of the two.

[Sonic Tonic]

With all due respect, I think it is you who doesn't understand much of what I say. Or, at least, sarcasm. One of the two.

haha I beat you by a split second. either way double win!

[FishOutaWater]

Live got $50,000 to $75,000 per night to play in front of audiences in the US. Probably more overseas. They maintained a pretty good touring schedule. I'm guessing each of the members of the band made a decent six figure income from live each year for the last decade. There was probably more money in touring than there was from publishing from SFBM. I would guess that is why C, C & P signed the ultimatum contract. That, in addition to their friendship, enjoyment of playing with each other, and love of the road, fans and playing before an audience. I would guess that the thought of doing something like TGF didn't really present itself as a viable option for their future as musicians playing in a good band before a loyal audience. They probably wanted to hold onto their connection with the loyal fanbase of Live, and given the choice of Ed walking away and watching the temple they built get destroyed, or take it with an ultimatum, they chose the ultimatum.

I don't fault Ed for making the ultimatum or them for taking it. I don't think they took it purely out of friendship. Obviously, Ed didn't make it from a motivation of friendship. It was business. Ed grabbed the creative reigns and then wanted the majority of the financial compensation to go with it.

How should C, C & P feel?

1. Ed took over creative control and went in a direction that C,C, and P didn't like. Live went soft and churchy. The popularity of Live went down the tubes as soon as the other three were excluded.

2. C, C and P took the ultimatum and accepted their 10% each.

3. Then they find out that Ed signed a publishing contract for $1,000,000 and didn't tell them and didn't give them their $100,000 each.

4. Then Ed starts touring the world, in all of Live's best markets where Live's loyal fanbase lives. Ed is playing Live's music catalog and selling tickets to the Live fanbase all for himself, to the exclusion of the other three.

5. Then Ed is selling recordings on his website of these songs from Live's catalog to Live fans to the exclusion of the other three. And he is not even paying them royalties for the sales.

6. Ed was using Live's mailing list, which is it's proprietary intellectual property, which has value, for his own exclusive purposes to the exclusion of the other three.

7. Ed started selling trinkets and coffee and T-shirts and stick figures to Live's fanbase on his website. He was cheapening the brand.


Ed was looking to make a buck off of the loyal fanbase that was the bread and butter of their careers and their life's work. He was essentially "consuming" the "commodity" that is the Live fanbase. The fanbase has a capacity to consume concert tickets, music and merchandise. And Ed not only forced an ultimatum to take 70% for himself, but then he set out to exclude C, C and P from publishing money with the secret contract and then he went out alone to make as much as he could for himself without the other guys. They stood by and watched this happen to their livelihood and the friendship.

How should they feel? Should they be so p*ssed that they might fire off a few impationed tweets?

Imagine how good Live could have been if the 4 guys continued to stay friends, and wrote everything together, living around York and Lancaster, drinking beers and rehearsing in garages. We might have gotten 5 more MJ's or TC's.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

haha I beat you by a split second. either way double win!

And you used the word "service." DAMMIT.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

Live got $50,000 to $75,000 per night to play in front of audiences in the US. Probably more overseas. They maintained a pretty good touring schedule. I'm guessing each of the members of the band made a decent six figure income from live each year for the last decade. There was probably more money in touring than there was from publishing from SFBM. I would guess that is why C, C & P signed the ultimatum contract. That, in addition to their friendship, enjoyment of playing with each other, and love of the road, fans and playing before an audience. I would guess that the thought of doing something like TGF didn't really present itself as a viable option for their future as musicians playing in a good band before a loyal audience. They probably wanted to hold onto their connection with the loyal fanbase of Live, and given the choice of Ed walking away and watching the temple they built get destroyed, or take it with an ultimatum, they chose the ultimatum.

I don't fault Ed for making the ultimatum or them for taking it. I don't think they took it purely out of friendship. Obviously, Ed didn't make it from a motivation of friendship. It was business. Ed grabbed the creative reigns and then wanted the majority of the financial compensation to go with it.

How should C, C & P feel?

1. Ed took over creative control and went in a direction that C,C, and P didn't like. Live went soft and churchy. The popularity of Live went down the tubes as soon as the other three were excluded.

2. C, C and P took the ultimatum and accepted their 10% each.

3. Then they find out that Ed signed a publishing contract for $1,000,000 and didn't tell them and didn't give them their $100,000 each.

4. Then Ed starts touring the world, in all of Live's best markets where Live's loyal fanbase lives. Ed is playing Live's music catalog and selling tickets to the Live fanbase all for himself, to the exclusion of the other three.

5. Then Ed is selling recordings on his website of these songs from Live's catalog to Live fans to the exclusion of the other three. And he is not even paying them royalties for the sales.

6. Ed was using Live's mailing list, which is it's proprietary intellectual property, which has value, for his own exclusive purposes to the exclusion of the other three.

7. Ed started selling trinkets and coffee and T-shirts and stick figures to Live's fanbase on his website. He was cheapening the brand.
Ed was looking to make a buck off of the loyal fanbase that was the bread and butter of their careers and their life's work. He was essentially "consuming" the "commodity" that is the Live fanbase. The fanbase has a capacity to consume concert tickets, music and merchandise. And Ed not only forced an ultimatum to take 70% for himself, but then he set out to exclude C, C and P from publishing money with the secret contract and then he went out alone to make as much as he could for himself without the other guys. They stood by and watched this happen to their livelihood and the friendship.

How should they feel? Should they be so p*ssed that they might fire off a few impationed tweets?

Imagine how good Live could have been if the 4 guys continued to stay friends, and wrote everything together, living around York and Lancaster, drinking beers and rehearsing in garages. We might have gotten 5 more MJ's or TC's.

Possibly the best post on the subject yet. We disagree on some of the details, but all in all total agreement.

[+Ed+]

Imagine how good Live could have been if the 4 guys continued to stay friends, and wrote everything together, living around York and Lancaster, drinking beers and rehearsing in garages. We might have gotten 5 more MJ's or TC's.

It could not have been like that after TC going up the Billboard, Fish.

And if they wasted all the money they got on boose and drugs, they would probably all have died after tdth

or before it

[FishOutaWater]

If it doesn't bother you that much then why did you go on to say that it bothered you a lot.

So one of those songs isn't his, the others were brand new. We're talking like the only 3 times that Ed has really done that with a lyric sheet. Meanwhile, it doesn't add to your side of the argument, because your side was saying that Ed should be respectful and use a music sheet.

I don't understand what you mean. I said that it did bother me at the time and it still bothers me. But I may be wrong for being bothered by it, if this lyric sheet thing happens all the time. I've just never seen it before. And I have been to many concerts. I've seen people do covers and new songs, but I've never seen a lyric sheet on stage.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

I don't understand what you mean. I said that it did bother me at the time and it still bothers me. But I may be wrong for being bothered by it, if this lyric sheet thing happens all the time. I've just never seen it before. And I have been to many concerts. I've seen people do covers and new songs, but I've never seen a lyric sheet on stage.

On the local music level you will be made fun of for taking a lyric sheet on stage, even at an open mic night.

[Aitkens]

I don't understand what you mean. I said that it did bother me at the time and it still bothers me. But I may be wrong for being bothered by it, if this lyric sheet thing happens all the time. I've just never seen it before. And I have been to many concerts. I've seen people do covers and new songs, but I've never seen a lyric sheet on stage.

I've seen Eddie Vedder finish off 2 bottles of wine during a show, then deliver some great covers without lyric sheets. That being said, to this day he still has no clue what the words are to a few verses in Yellow Ledbetter.

[Bremang]

With all due respect, I think it is you who doesn't understand much of what I say. Or, at least, sarcasm. One of the two.

It was pretty dry then, there was even a sad smiley face. You've been telling me that you haven't been understanding me for a while, so I thought you really didn't this time. But ok....

[Infrequent Poster]

Since I can't give you rep for that post I'll give you pretend rep in my post. Great job Fish.

[Bremang]

I don't understand what you mean. I said that it did bother me at the time and it still bothers me.

in addition to forgetting lyrics (which doesn't really bother me that much)

thats what i was referring to.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jun 23 2010, 1:40 pm

[thefunkyredcaboose]

It was pretty dry then, there was even a sad smiley face. You've been telling me that you haven't been understanding me for a while, so I thought you really didn't this time. But ok....

I don't recall legitimately not understanding anything you or anyone else on this board has ever said, and my post on this thread was not even directed at anything you posted.

So, maybe for the first time, I don't really understand why this conversation is even happening. But even that not understanding is more of the "wow this is stupid" variety.

EDIT: Because I've been trying to stop using the word "retarded"

This post has been edited by thefunkyredcaboose: Jun 23 2010, 1:55 pm

[thefunkyredcaboose]

thats what i was referring to.

The solution to forgetting lyrics isn't to get a music stand.

[FishOutaWater]

thats what i was referring to.

Oh, OK, now I see what you are saying.

Everyone was complaining that Ed would sing songs and screw up the lyrics because he forgot the lyrics. I am saying that does not bother me that much. I can give him slack for that. Sometimes you screw up and forget lyrics. What did bother me, was seeing Ed take out a music stand with a lyric sheet and read the lyrics to an entire song onstage. That seemed to be unprepared and half-assed. I thought that he should have been more prepared, memorized the lyrics and rehearsed before going on stage before thousands of people to put on a show for them and get paid a nice 5 figure wage for doing it.

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Jun 23 2010, 2:02 pm