Ed Kowalczyk Rejuvenated By Solo Career (article) Options

[Sakhmet2]

Sure, that is me.
Pokey, Merica and thefunkyredcaboose are also me.
They are all oh so me.
I am also Liam Gallagher, fooken fook.
And I'm the voice inside yer head you refuse to hear.

Wait a minute. I thought *I* was you? Or you were me? Somebody clear this up!

[Pokey]

Sure, that is me.
Pokey, Merica and thefunkyredcaboose are also me.

I'm not you, you're me!

[+Ed+]

I'm not you, you're me!

Shit, we are uncovered...

[Pokey]

Oh man, you know, this whole board is filled with people who are so full of shit, it doesn't even come close to being funny.

Okay, let's get some things straight here.

The TGF side on this board is BITTER. You hide your potshots behind smiley faces, dancing, bananas, and rolling eyes, but the nature of your posts is all the same: rooted in shame, disgust, and the desire to systematically break down the "Ed" side in any way that you can. Then you claim to be "lightened up." And you call Nick delusional.

Now, whether or not you have a right to be bitter is a completely different issue entirely. It's your life. Be who you are, and Ed is obviously a douche bag. But don't fault Ed (and accuse Nick) for being a liar when you're all petty little liars yourselves. There's no integrity behind any of that. You're bitter. You attack Ed at every turn. You attack Nick in threads when he isn't even defending Ed or pissing on TGF. You're bullies... in the same way you imply Ed is a bully who pushed his lifelong friends around for his own selfish gain. You're all bitter, and you're fooling nobody.

In fairness, Ed is pretty full of shit himself. I mean really, I saw the video on the making of Grace and he claimed that he was in a rut for all those years leading up to now, but really... just read or listen to any of his interviews when V or BOP or SFBM were coming out, and all he talks about is how rejuvenated he was with each album release back then. He's a snake oil salesman. A talented one, I'll admit (and you should admit too, even if you don't like his style anymore), but a huge, egotistical, phoney pitchman.

All of the "claims" regarding his wrongdoing on a legal level can be argued until the cows come home and are still all nothing more than "he said, they said" to a certain extent (although I believe Chad, Chad, and Pat, and I'm guessing more evidence will come out to support their claims). But what can't be disputed are the documented interviews where Ed is in love with V, in love with BOP, in love with SFBM... and now declares those weren't his better phases in his career. He's a liar. He only cares about himself and what will sell. He has little artistic integrity. Well... no shit, sherlock.

I don't like Ed. I think he's pretty far from being a decent human being. I also think he's an exceptional talent. His voice is one-of-a-kind, truly. I also think he's the worst offender of an entire band that isn't even close to being as "fan-friendly" as other acts out there (an argument I really don't want to get into, but really, LIVE has always sucked when it came to doing for the fans in ways that demonstrated genuine graciousness and appreciation for the living they made and the success they enjoyed thanks the devotion of many).

I think for all the shit you TGFers give Nick, you lack the gratitude owed to someone who put out the time, money, and energy to keep this site running when NOBODY else would. And none of you acknowledge that Nick took a lot of heat and a lot of punishment for a very long time without giving any back. Your whole "The Gracious Few rocks and I'm the fuck out of here because Nick doesn't agree with me" bullshit is an obvious and automatic result of your pride being hurt because Nick only allows himself to be shit on 70% of the time (instead of the customary 100% you used to get). I know people being run by their egos when I see it... I've been plenty guilty of that myself in my life, and I struggle just as much as anyone (hence my being fed up enough to finally write this post rather than just let it slide and leave you all to your own bullshit like I have for years).

Ed Kowalczyk is an exceptionally talented cuntrag. Either be bitter about it or don't be. But don't be a bunch of friggin liars and bullies and then act morally superior to Ed like your shit doesn't stink. The only difference between you and Ed is that Ed capitalized on the opportunity to fuck people out of money, while you simply capitalize on the opportunity this board gives you to fuck people out of self-esteem if they commit the "crime" of not agreeing with everything you say.

You're bullshit and you know it. All of you. (Well, most of you).

It's not about being bitter .. I personally am not bitter about anything. Disgusted with Ed, yes. It sucks when someone you looked up to turns to a complete ass. The only bitterness you could say would possibly be about Ed destroying one of my favorite bands ... you'd think just about all of us should feel like that, no? Except Nick doesn't, he seemingly couldn't give a damn because Ed is still alive and kicking and that's all that matters.
Ed Kowalczyk WAS and exceptionally talented person .. I've seen hide nor hair of this talent in many years, which is a crying shame.

I think a lot of people feel that way, wasted talent. I know I've thought that for years now, and it's been incredibly frustrating. I think a lot of us suspected what was going on but had no way of being able to prove it because Live's image was always that things were going along ok. We may not have suspected the stealing money side of things, but certainly the power plays and the Ed dominance over the band etc... Now that it's all come to a head theres years of frustration and anger being spilled out by people here .. it's understandable. I don't know about anyone else, but deep in my heart I found it really hard to believe that the guys who played instruments on Unsheathed really had their heart and soul in making The River. But there was always that fear of "shit what if they really do and this is what they all want now, not just Ed?" ... so to hear the other guys confirm what I and possibly others thought all along is really in a way quite rejuvinating, comforting and satisfying.

Music is such a personal thing, it means so much to people, so when shit likes this goes down to expect everyone who has invested years of emotion and energy and even money into this band to not stick it to Ed I think is asking a lot.


As for Nick, him keeping this board alive was because of Ed, I don't see Nick as a real fan of the old Live, the Live that wrote together and were a real band. He has no interest in 3/4 of Live. Whether Nick keeps the place open, or closes it, or whatever is up to him. I'm not sure what you think people "owe" him, I respect that he stepped up to do it, but I certainly don't think he's owed. I do respect that he takes an unholy amount of shit on this board and for the most part he handles it pretty well. Better than I probably would anyway in his position. But then again i wouldn't put myself in his position.
However I think Nick also brings a lot of that shit on himself with his completely uneducated and ridiculous comments, he's gotta expect backlash for it.

I see where you're coming from with the whole - people getting shitty at Nick for shitting on TGF and threads about them, when people do the same about Ed. The difference is I just don't see the justification on Nick's part. I don't see the hurt or the anger or emotion from him. It is quite hypocritical of some people I guess to demand he not shit on TGF, but at the same time he's the damn moderator of the board. I also wouldn't even really mind him shitting on TGF if he actually raised some good points or something, and sometimes he's even come out with some funny stuff. Personally I don't really care if he shits in TGF threads or not, I just find him a frustrating person on many levels ... I always figured a good rule of thumb as to whether I'll like something or not is to find out whether Nick does and then i'll know what my opinion will be. I'd like to think I've not gotten overly personal with attacks though and kept it reasonably on topic ... my goal anyways isn't to piss off Nick or make really hurtful comments, but I'll still have a hard go when I think he's wrong. The pot shots are just a bit of fun though, and I'd welcome them on both sides if they're funny.

[Pokey]

Shit, we are uncovered...

No, YOU'VE been uncovered .. oh wait...

[Sakhmet2]

Shit, we are uncovered...

THE TRUTH is that there are at most 3 posters on this board:
those that bash Ed (hereafter known as "OuttoDry&socks)
those that do not bash Ed (hereafter known as "Nick'sSocks)
those that wish people would get over the breakup and stop bashing someone (Me&mysocks/Brett)

Unless....
there is only one poster here, taking all the roles: Nick-OTD-Brett

It's like Fight Club for Live fans.

[Sakhmet2]

It's not about being bitter .. I personally am not bitter about anything.

I think there are just two different interpretations of the word "bitter" here. And I think some people *are* bitter about the band breaking up and what the ostensible cause of the breakup is.

I see where you're coming from with the whole - people getting shitty at Nick for shitting on TGF and threads about them, when people do the same about Ed. The difference is I just don't see the justification on Nick's part. I don't see the hurt or the anger or emotion from him.

I don't think anyone really knows how anyone else feels inside. And I don't think that being bitter about the breakup and angry with Ed is justification to shit on people who don't agree with you. (Not "you" pokey, obv. but the general "you" - second person plural - meaning "other posters here).

but at the same time he's the damn moderator of the board.

He's stepped back from the TGF stuff, but the main part of the Forum "Live Central" is still a mixture of Ed & TGF posts so there's enough overlap that Nick would still get stuck seeing most of the hostile comments. It might be easier if the Forum was redivided so that Live Central was just for Live, and all threads specific to TGF must be moved to that forum, etc.

This post has been edited by Sakhmet2: Jun 20 2010, 11:19 am

[tiger]

It's not about being bitter .. I personally am not bitter about anything. Disgusted with Ed, yes. It sucks when someone you looked up to turns to a complete ass. The only bitterness you could say would possibly be about Ed destroying one of my favorite bands ... you'd think just about all of us should feel like that, no? Except Nick doesn't, he seemingly couldn't give a damn because Ed is still alive and kicking and that's all that matters.
Ed Kowalczyk WAS and exceptionally talented person .. I've seen hide nor hair of this talent in many years, which is a crying shame.

I think a lot of people feel that way, wasted talent. I know I've thought that for years now, and it's been incredibly frustrating. I think a lot of us suspected what was going on but had no way of being able to prove it because Live's image was always that things were going along ok. We may not have suspected the stealing money side of things, but certainly the power plays and the Ed dominance over the band etc... Now that it's all come to a head theres years of frustration and anger being spilled out by people here .. it's understandable. I don't know about anyone else, but deep in my heart I found it really hard to believe that the guys who played instruments on Unsheathed really had their heart and soul in making The River. But there was always that fear of "shit what if they really do and this is what they all want now, not just Ed?" ... so to hear the other guys confirm what I and possibly others thought all along is really in a way quite rejuvinating, comforting and satisfying.

Music is such a personal thing, it means so much to people, so when shit likes this goes down to expect everyone who has invested years of emotion and energy and even money into this band to not stick it to Ed I think is asking a lot.
As for Nick, him keeping this board alive was because of Ed, I don't see Nick as a real fan of the old Live, the Live that wrote together and were a real band. He has no interest in 3/4 of Live. Whether Nick keeps the place open, or closes it, or whatever is up to him. I'm not sure what you think people "owe" him, I respect that he stepped up to do it, but I certainly don't think he's owed. I do respect that he takes an unholy amount of shit on this board and for the most part he handles it pretty well. Better than I probably would anyway in his position. But then again i wouldn't put myself in his position.
However I think Nick also brings a lot of that shit on himself with his completely uneducated and ridiculous comments, he's gotta expect backlash for it.

I see where you're coming from with the whole - people getting shitty at Nick for shitting on TGF and threads about them, when people do the same about Ed. The difference is I just don't see the justification on Nick's part. I don't see the hurt or the anger or emotion from him. It is quite hypocritical of some people I guess to demand he not shit on TGF, but at the same time he's the damn moderator of the board. I also wouldn't even really mind him shitting on TGF if he actually raised some good points or something, and sometimes he's even come out with some funny stuff. Personally I don't really care if he shits in TGF threads or not, I just find him a frustrating person on many levels ... I always figured a good rule of thumb as to whether I'll like something or not is to find out whether Nick does and then i'll know what my opinion will be. I'd like to think I've not gotten overly personal with attacks though and kept it reasonably on topic ... my goal anyways isn't to piss off Nick or make really hurtful comments, but I'll still have a hard go when I think he's wrong. The pot shots are just a bit of fun though, and I'd welcome them on both sides if they're funny.

Now that's calling it like it is. Excellent post.

[Pokey]

I don't think anyone really knows how anyone else feels inside. And I don't think that being bitter about the breakup and angry with Ed is justification to shit on people who don't agree with you. (Not "you" pokey, obv. but the general "you" - second person plural - meaning "other posters here).

I believe Nick's very first major complaint with TGF was them saying bad things about Ed in public. He was concerned they were trying to split the fanbase and hurt Ed's reputation and ultimately album sales.
To me that just doesn't equate to the same sort of feeling people have about Ed running one of their favorite bands into the ground. It's well documented that Nick has always seemed more concerned about album sales, charting, radio plays and all this than the actual music itself. I don't see Nick as being all that emotionally invested, so when he takes jabs I just see them as empty nothings. The jabs at Ed for the most part I feel come from somewhere emotional.
Now this is also quite contradictory because saying Nick doesn't have passion for the band isn't quite right because he did take over this board after all. But his just seems like a different sort of passion. He wants other people to hear the music, and buy the album and go to the shows, his passion seems to lie there, not a passion about he himself listening to the music.

You're right that you don't really know what's going on in someone's head, im not trying to put words in Nick's mouth here, and I'm sure he does love the music. But it's just ... different. And in his posting at least it just doesn't show.

[Sakhmet2]

You're right that you don't really know what's going on in someone's head, im not trying to put words in Nick's mouth here,

I respect and appreciate this. It makes a nice change.

To me that just doesn't equate to the same sort of feeling people have about Ed running one of their favorite bands into the ground. It's well documented that Nick has always seemed more concerned about album sales, charting, radio plays and all this than the actual music itself.

It reminds me of some sports fans I know. They're all about the stats and not about the beauty of the play. That's not to say that they're any less of a fan, just they think different things are important.

Now this is also quite contradictory because saying Nick doesn't have passion for the band isn't quite right because he did take over this board after all. But his just seems like a different sort of passion. He wants other people to hear the music, and buy the album and go to the shows, his passion seems to lie there, not a passion about he himself listening to the music.

Yeah. But it's almost like a cultural social thing to me. I know some people who were brought up by parents who thought everything revolved around money, and people's worth comes from financial success. I remember a few years ago getting into a fistfight with the brother of an ex-gf. Her family were first generation immigrants who thought making some money was the most important thing in the world. So they were polite to me and my family because they thought they were rich and dissed my best friend because his family was poor. So I took exception.
But not that I like the stuck up shits I went to school with any better.
Their parents thought that being in the country a few generations made them fucking kings or something.

This post has been edited by Sakhmet2: Jun 20 2010, 12:05 pm

[OutToDry]

I will reply to all of this a little later.

Haters keep on hating........Were coming.

[OutToDry]

Welcome to the Wheel That Turns CallsIt.

I am not bitter, only upset that Ed ruined the band that meant quite a lot to me. His actions for the past 10 years and with the latter events cemented his douchbaggery. It's my only place to blast him. I think he stole from the fans by not carrying his trademark forward. He put his feelings and ego above what made them a great band. I share every opinion that Pokey does so I wont rehash it. I'll simply co-exist with Nick here and continue the friendly barbs.

But welcome to the board....you share a lot of our opinions after all.

[Bremang]

this is the point i was trying to make before. dont know how the fuck two people didnt understand. the point is the end result of a live album and an eddie k solo album is still him singing over a rock band. so for him to say he needed a big change and it was all becoming same-old for him, then to get three or four new musicians to do exactly the same thing doesnt make his justification believable. He just wanted "different" people playing the music. Not that there's anything wrong with that

I won't deny that he could be making excuses about dropping Live...but in the article, the logic was that he lost his creative spark, and he thought it was because he was doing the same thing over and over. The change he made, in order to rekindle his creativity, was playing solo for a bit, which in turn got his juices flowing in order to continue doing whatever. It didn't say he was trying to change the type of music he was playing, or how he would perform music in the future with a band. Although having a new backing band could definitely be considered a new thing for Ed, even if they're playing the same old stuff. That seems like a reasonable justification to me.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jun 20 2010, 5:16 pm

[Aitkens]

I won't deny that he could be making excuses about dropping Live...but in the article, the logic was that he lost his creative spark, and he thought it was because he was doing the same thing over and over. The change he made, in order to rekindle his creativity, was playing solo for a bit, which in turn got his juices flowing in order to continue doing whatever. It didn't say he was trying to change the type of music he was playing, or how he would perform music in the future with a band. Although having a new backing band could definitely be considered a new thing for Ed, even if they're playing the same old stuff. That seems like a reasonable justification to me.

Based on what we've learned recently all of this equals that he didn't have to share the money. That's what "rejuvenated" Ed. He could finally keep all of the money without needing to steal it.

[Sonic Tonic]

Oh man, you know, this whole board is filled with people who are so full of shit, it doesn't even come close to being funny.

Okay, let's get some things straight here.

The TGF side on this board is BITTER. You hide your potshots behind smiley faces, dancing, bananas, and rolling eyes, but the nature of your posts is all the same: rooted in shame, disgust, and the desire to systematically break down the "Ed" side in any way that you can. Then you claim to be "lightened up." And you call Nick delusional.

Now, whether or not you have a right to be bitter is a completely different issue entirely. It's your life. Be who you are, and Ed is obviously a douche bag. But don't fault Ed (and accuse Nick) for being a liar when you're all petty little liars yourselves. There's no integrity behind any of that. You're bitter. You attack Ed at every turn. You attack Nick in threads when he isn't even defending Ed or pissing on TGF. You're bullies... in the same way you imply Ed is a bully who pushed his lifelong friends around for his own selfish gain. You're all bitter, and you're fooling nobody.

In fairness, Ed is pretty full of shit himself. I mean really, I saw the video on the making of Grace and he claimed that he was in a rut for all those years leading up to now, but really... just read or listen to any of his interviews when V or BOP or SFBM were coming out, and all he talks about is how rejuvenated he was with each album release back then. He's a snake oil salesman. A talented one, I'll admit (and you should admit too, even if you don't like his style anymore), but a huge, egotistical, phoney pitchman.

All of the "claims" regarding his wrongdoing on a legal level can be argued until the cows come home and are still all nothing more than "he said, they said" to a certain extent (although I believe Chad, Chad, and Pat, and I'm guessing more evidence will come out to support their claims). But what can't be disputed are the documented interviews where Ed is in love with V, in love with BOP, in love with SFBM... and now declares those weren't his better phases in his career. He's a liar. He only cares about himself and what will sell. He has little artistic integrity. Well... no shit, sherlock.

I don't like Ed. I think he's pretty far from being a decent human being. I also think he's an exceptional talent. His voice is one-of-a-kind, truly. I also think he's the worst offender of an entire band that isn't even close to being as "fan-friendly" as other acts out there (an argument I really don't want to get into, but really, LIVE has always sucked when it came to doing for the fans in ways that demonstrated genuine graciousness and appreciation for the living they made and the success they enjoyed thanks the devotion of many).

I think for all the shit you TGFers give Nick, you lack the gratitude owed to someone who put out the time, money, and energy to keep this site running when NOBODY else would. And none of you acknowledge that Nick took a lot of heat and a lot of punishment for a very long time without giving any back. Your whole "The Gracious Few rocks and I'm the fuck out of here because Nick doesn't agree with me" bullshit is an obvious and automatic result of your pride being hurt because Nick only allows himself to be shit on 70% of the time (instead of the customary 100% you used to get). I know people being run by their egos when I see it... I've been plenty guilty of that myself in my life, and I struggle just as much as anyone (hence my being fed up enough to finally write this post rather than just let it slide and leave you all to your own bullshit like I have for years).

Ed Kowalczyk is an exceptionally talented cuntrag. Either be bitter about it or don't be. But don't be a bunch of friggin liars and bullies and then act morally superior to Ed like your shit doesn't stink. The only difference between you and Ed is that Ed capitalized on the opportunity to fuck people out of money, while you simply capitalize on the opportunity this board gives you to fuck people out of self-esteem if they commit the "crime" of not agreeing with everything you say.

You're bullshit and you know it. All of you. (Well, most of you).

This post gets my stamp of approval. and no . I am NOT being sarcastic