Ed's Bootlegs (inc. Supreme Court summons), not so legal after all? Options

[jclive]

It may not be wrongdoing...it's just unethical to hold something over somebody's head like that. They had no other choice to go along with it. Live was their "job" so to speak.

But they DID have another choice. That choice being to break up the band. Yes, Live was their job. But they are fabulously talented musicians. There is other work for them. Who knows, maybe even another band that will be even more successful than Live.

[crazy1]

But they DID have another choice. That choice being to break up the band. Yes, Live was their job. But they are fabulously talented musicians. There is other work for them. Who knows, maybe even another band that will be even more successful than Live.

Ain't no work for an honest man!!

[jclive]

Bands do and should operate differently than that.

If a band JUST becomes a business then the art will suffer (which it did).

Band operate any way they wish. They are people who come together to make music. When they find success, there will always be business aspects that affect decisions.

Considering your thought process, maybe it was Chad, Chad and Pat who actually made it more of a business decision and less a creative one. Ever look at it from that angle? "Guys, Ed wants to leave the band. We need him to stay around so that we can keep Live going. He really wants to go off on his own. But he did say that he'll stay with us if we agree to this. Think we should go along with it? Sounds like a pretty smart move, lets do it. Where do we sign?"

[crazy1]

Band operate any way they wish. They are people who come together to make music. When they find success, there will always be business aspects that affect decisions.

Considering your thought process, maybe it was Chad, Chad and Pat who actually made it more of a business decision and less a creative one. Ever look at it from that angle? "Guys, Ed wants to leave the band. We need him to stay around so that we can keep Live going. He really wants to go off on his own. But he did say that he'll stay with us if we agree to this. Think we should go along with it? Sounds like a pretty smart move, lets do it. Where do we sign?"

Wow....so your in the guys heads huh?

[thefunkyredcaboose]

But they DID have another choice. That choice being to break up the band. Yes, Live was their job. But they are fabulously talented musicians. There is other work for them. Who knows, maybe even another band that will be even more successful than Live.

That isn't a willing choice though!!

Maybe you don't get it because you aren't a musician, I don't know, but that isn't a "choice" when music is involved.

[jclive]

Wow....so your in the guys heads huh?

Of course not. I have no idea what's in their heads. Just trying to point out the fact that we really have no idea about what went down and how. It could have played out in so many different ways. Its their business dealings, not ours.

[Pokey]

I just can't believe people think that the ultimatum is ok ... regardless of whether the other guys signed it or not or agreed to it, whatever ... it's blowing my mind that you people seem to think that this is an acceptable way to treat people you've been friends with for 20-odd years!
You just shouldn't put people in that position, there were surely other ways around it rather than putting contracts infront of your FRIENDS to sign.
Start up a solo act for a few years, take some time away from each other .. just .. god. The people who think that this is ok have really got some issues and I would hate to be one of your friends.

[crazy1]

"What we've got here is failure to communicate.
Some men you just can't reach...
So, you get what we had here last week,
which is the way he wants it!
Well, he gets it!

[tiger]

What's so wrong about the situation? "Hey guys, I'm ready to leave the band. Oh, you guys you want me to stay around and keep Live together? Then considering what I would prefer to do with my own life, things need to work like THIS for me to stay around. Yall cool with that? Ok then, let's keep going."

I'm in the staffing business. We deal with similar scenarios every day.

That was included in the suit to indicate the agreement they signed and the fact that he did not live up to it by denying them their money.

[Jim]

I dunno what to say, my respect for all members of Live is dwindling. That Ed would even ever dream up that ultimatum of "I get all song credit or I leave the band" is not as shocking as it should be at this point, but still shocking nonetheless. I mean, there were rumors back in 1999 about Ed be very controlling, but I never knew it became this ultimatum.

The guys in Live accepting Ed's ultimatum, for whatever reasons, is also very shocking. And I'm sorry to say it, but their reason of accepting it out "friendship" is a huge flaming piece of bullshit. When your "friend" is giving you an ultimatum like Ed did , I wouldn't consider him much of a "friend" anymore. It's quite obvious there was no more friendship there, just business. Again, I hate to say it but one could speculate they agreed to Ed's ultimatum until they figured they could sell more albums in a new band. Or they had hoped Live started to sell well again, which obviously didn't happen.

I know I'll get flamed for all of this, but I'm just trying to wrap my head around how they ever agreed to that ultimatum.

Before you reply, consider one question:
Would we be hearing about this if Live had made a sudden & huge return to popularity after the ultimatum?

This post has been edited by Jim: Jun 15 2010, 9:21 am

[jclive]

That isn't a willing choice though!!

Maybe you don't get it because you aren't a musician, I don't know, but that isn't a "choice" when music is involved.

I am not a musician. But I am a business man. I am a part of a successful company, we've been in business for over 12 years. When someone decides they want to leave, we have a decision to make. We 1) just let them leave, or 2) ask them to please reconsider. If we ask them to reconsider, they typically have terms that need to be met inorder for them to stay around. Either we counter-offer, or they present the terms, and we decide if its worth the risk.

Maybe we're talking about a real key player in what we provide to our clients. And said employee comes to us and says that they've been presented with an amazing new opportunity, but that they'll consider staying around if we do A, B, and C for them. We have a big decision to make at that point.

Should be no different in the music business.

[tiger]

I dunno what to say, my respect for all members of Live is dwindling. That Ed would even ever dream up that ultimatum of "I get all song credit or I leave the band" is not as shocking as it should be at this point, but still shocking nonetheless. I mean, there were rumors back in 1999 about Ed be very controlling, but I never knew it became this ultimatum.

The guys in Live accepting Ed's ultimatum, for whatever reasons, is also very shocking. And I'm sorry to say it, but their reason of accepting it out "friendship" is a huge flaming piece of bullshit. When your "friend" is giving you an ultimatum like Ed did , I wouldn't consider him much of a "friend" anymore. It's quite obvious there was no more friendship there, just business. Again, I hate to say it but one could speculate they agreed to Ed's ultimatum until they figured they could sell more albums in a new band. Or they had hoped Live started to sell well again, which obviously didn't happen.

I know I'll get flamed for all of this, but I'm just trying to wrap my head around how they ever agreed to that ultimatum.

Before you reply, consider one question:
Would we be hearing about this if Live had made a sudden & huge return to popularity after the ultimatum?

Yes because Ed would probably owe them even more money. For whateve reason they chose to continue, the fact remains that he (allegedly) did not live up to those terms financially.

[jclive]

I just can't believe people think that the ultimatum is ok ... regardless of whether the other guys signed it or not or agreed to it, whatever ... it's blowing my mind that you people seem to think that this is an acceptable way to treat people you've been friends with for 20-odd years!
You just shouldn't put people in that position, there were surely other ways around it rather than putting contracts infront of your FRIENDS to sign.
Start up a solo act for a few years, take some time away from each other .. just .. god. The people who think that this is ok have really got some issues and I would hate to be one of your friends.

Who says that a contract was put in front of their friends. Point #29 is the Plaintiff's version of what happened. There is Ed's version. And then there is also what ACTUALLY happened.

At the end of the day, everyone agreed to move forward with Live at the time.

[Liveman94]

I just can't believe people think that the ultimatum is ok ... regardless of whether the other guys signed it or not or agreed to it, whatever ... it's blowing my mind that you people seem to think that this is an acceptable way to treat people you've been friends with for 20-odd years!
You just shouldn't put people in that position, there were surely other ways around it rather than putting contracts infront of your FRIENDS to sign.
Start up a solo act for a few years, take some time away from each other .. just .. god. The people who think that this is ok have really got some issues and I would hate to be one of your friends.

I agree if my own brother gave me that ultimatum I would be shocked, it would not be acceptable to me at all - 20yrs of friendship down the drain for a writing credit and $$$ I was sad that Live ended; I'm devastated that this is how it panned out.

Edward Joel Kowalzcyk; you have dissapointed your longest serving fans, you have lost your friends respect and worse than all of that the greed and selfishness you railed so hard against in your youth is what you have now become.

'oh, Edward in a robe of truth
my emptiness has built your altar
and I've worshipped myself in you forever
until now'

Redemption is yours to win Ed but it's a long and winding road brother.

[crazy1]

IBefore you reply, consider one question:
Would we be hearing about this if Live had made a sudden & huge return to popularity after the ultimatum?

With Ed writing the songs only?

highly unlikely!!!