Ed's Bootlegs (inc. Supreme Court summons), not so legal after all? Options

[OutToDry]

Sak, That's what I am talking about.....Levin breached his power of attorney. I think that's the biggest thing we're reading about here.

[crazy1]

Ed's lawyer is just going to twist it around to make him look good. That is what the other side always does!

[crazy1]

The Chads and Pat need to hire a forensic accountant to go over Levin's books if they didn't already.

[Sakhmet2]

Allegations, signed and stapled by the judge?

It's a legal document that's been filed with the court. Of course it's signed and stapled. The judge has not yet rendered judgement or set the date for a jury trial, so it's not fact.

Sak, That's what I am talking about.....Levin breached his power of attorney. I think that's the biggest thing we're reading about here.

Agreeing. When I was reading around, one of the phrases that pops all the time is that fiduciaries have a particular duty of loyalty and trustworthiness to act in the best interests of the parties they represent. This is why I think this may be the more serious charge. I also noted this:
The courts stringently examine transactions between people involved in fiduciary relationships toward one another. Particular scrutiny is placed upon any transaction by which a dominant individual obtains any advantage or profit at the expense of the party under his or her influence. Such transaction, in which undue influence of the fiduciary can be established, is void.
So if the other 3 can prove that Levin used undue influence to keep them from their legal rights, would that invalidate any agreements made at his urging? That would certainly make it a whole new ballgame

This post has been edited by Sakhmet2: Jun 15 2010, 7:22 am

[thefunkyredcaboose]

Which will be different from this how?
These are allegations, not proven fact yet.

I admit wholly to being biased here, and not just because of fandom. I've seen these things happen before (sometimes with more involvement than others) and the actions of the business manager are simply classic music business tricks.

The tricky thing for Ed and Levin (and their lawyers) is that if the contracts do exist, it is going to be difficult to explain. In the least, it looks like Ed will be forking out money for the 1 million dollar bonus and the website sales.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

Agreeing. When I was reading around, one of the phrases that pops all the time is that fiduciaries have a particular duty of loyalty and trustworthiness to act in the best interests of the parties they represent. This is why I think this may be the more serious charge. I also noted this:
The courts stringently examine transactions between people involved in fiduciary relationships toward one another. Particular scrutiny is placed upon any transaction by which a dominant individual obtains any advantage or profit at the expense of the party under his or her influence. Such transaction, in which undue influence of the fiduciary can be established, is void.
So if the other 3 can prove that Levin used undue influence to keep them from their legal rights, would that invalidate any agreements made at his urging? That would certainly make it a whole new ballgame

Interesting.

[OutToDry]

This secret contract opened a whole can of worms with their accountant.......I was hoping not to discover that these things were accused......we'll perhaps see........maybe not.

[Sakhmet2]

I admit wholly to being biased here, and not just because of fandom. I've seen these things happen before (sometimes with more involvement than others) and the actions of the business manager are simply classic music business tricks.

The tricky thing for Ed and Levin (and their lawyers) is that if the contracts do exist, it is going to be difficult to explain. In the least, it looks like Ed will be forking out money for the 1 million dollar bonus and the website sales.

Well, the website for sure.
IIRC, the "bonus" was the lead singer bonus of $500.000 and the $1 mill was the advance based on the sale of
Actually, there's something odd about the wording: the $1,000,000 "publishing advance" comes from a "purported contract". In other words, it seems that the lawyers for the Chads & Pat don't have proof that this contract exists.

Also, I just wanted to add a bit to my response to

QUOTE(+Ed+ @ Jun 15 2010, 8:02 am) *
Allegations, signed and stapled by the judge?

It's signed but not by the judge as far as I can see, unless you're looking at some other document than the pdf I've downloaded. The signature is that of the attorney for the plaintiffs.

This post has been edited by Sakhmet2: Jun 15 2010, 7:46 am

[jclive]

Have any of you guys ever been served legal papers such as this one? You can say anything you damn well please in these things. When I got divorced back in 2004, my lawer and I sat an laughed at the Summons. Needless to say, we tore the vast majority of it to pieces. It settled out of court (mediation), and everybody left happy.

The fact that we know absolutely nothing from the Ed K camp speaks volumes to me about his long-standing intention to go off on his own. Maybe he felt that the other guys were holding him back? Maybe they did something to piss him off? Maybe they had just grown apart? We are FANS of their music. We have no clue what goes on in these guys private lives. Nor should we. Its their business. And I am positive that us common folk will never know the exact 'truth' about who did what to who, contracts, etc.

Jumping ahead a little... food for thought. If a judge/jury finds you 'guilty' of something, does that mean you unequivocally ARE guilty of, and actually committed, said offense? Same for being found 'not guilty' (i.e. OJ Simpson case.. everybody knows that he murdered those 2 people!). The law is not perfect. It just provides us with a framework in which to operate.

Think of it any way you want, but Ed Kowalczyk IS the voice of Live. Without him, although extremely talented musicians, the other 3 are a drummer, guitarist, and bass player. And I hope they are fantastically successful at whatever they do, because I sure do love their music.


J

[OutToDry]

These to points will loom large: (so there must have been interactions with Levin which turned up these notions/actions)

36. The Plaintiffs repeatedly requested that Levin assist them in recovering the
$225,000 that they are owed under the 2005 Agreement. Levin not only refused to assist
Plaintiffs but also wrongly informed them that they were not entitled to receipt of the $225,000.
In making this wrongful assertion, Levin improperly favored one of his fiduciaries - Kowalczyk
- over the three Plaintiffs, to whom he also owed fiduciary duties.

37. Levin committed the foregoing wrongful acts because he valued his
relationship with Kowalczyk more than his relationship with the Plaintiffs. Levin believed that
Kowalczyk would have the most profitable career in the years to come, and wished to continue
representing Kowalczyk if and when he left the band LIVE and embarked on a solo career.

[crazy1]

Think of it any way you want, but Ed Kowalczyk IS the voice of Live. Without him, although extremely talented musicians, the other 3 are a drummer, guitarist, and bass player. .

Not to be mean but i am SO sick of hearing that from the Ed fans!!! In your minds....

[Sakhmet2]

These to points will loom large: (so there must have been interactions with Levin which turned up these notions/actions)
36. The Plaintiffs repeatedly requested that Levin assist them in recovering the
$225,000 that they are owed under the 2005 Agreement. Levin not only refused to assist
Plaintiffs but also wrongly informed them that they were not entitled to receipt of the $225,000.
In making this wrongful assertion, Levin improperly favored one of his fiduciaries - Kowalczyk
- over the three Plaintiffs, to whom he also owed fiduciary duties.
37. Levin committed the foregoing wrongful acts because he valued his
relationship with Kowalczyk more than his relationship with the Plaintiffs. Levin believed that
Kowalczyk would have the most profitable career in the years to come, and wished to continue
representing Kowalczyk if and when he left the band LIVE and embarked on a solo career.

They very clearly indicate breach of fiduciary duty and in the counts, it is Levin, his company and FVI which are accused of "maliciously [intending] to interfere and [interfering]" with Ed's performance of his contract obligations under the 2004 agreement.
Something interesting about this:
FVI is being spoken of in this instance as if it were an entity which did not include Ed since it acted upon him. so who exactly *are* FVI?

This post has been edited by Sakhmet2: Jun 15 2010, 8:04 am

[crazy1]

They very clearly indicate breach of fiduciary duty and in the counts, it is Levin, his company and FVI which are accused of "maliciously [intending] to interfere and [interfering]" with Ed's performance of his contract obligations under the 2004 agreement.
Something interesting about this:
FVI is being spoken of in this instance as if it were an entity which did not include Ed since it acted upon him. so who exactly *are* FVI?

FVI is Ed's company..i believe


oops maybe if I actually read your whole post..sorry

This post has been edited by crazy1: Jun 15 2010, 8:13 am

[Pokey]

Not to be mean but i am SO sick of hearing that from the Ed fans!!! In your minds....

Totally, and without the other 3, Ed is JUST a singer, creatively he's gone to shit. Hell he proved that even in the dying years of Live when the other 3 were still around but wern't able to take part in the writing process. Saying that without Ed as the singer it just isn't Live ... well to me it "just wasn't Live" when all the song writing credits read as just Ed because Ed isn't Live.
And if Nick wants to pipe up with "well thats just your opinion.." then I'll point him to those sales and such that he loves so much and how well Live did in those late years compared to when they all wrote together.


This post has been edited by Pokey: Jun 15 2010, 8:21 am

[thefunkyredcaboose]

The fact that we know absolutely nothing from the Ed K camp speaks volumes to me about his long-standing intention to go off on his own. Maybe he felt that the other guys were holding him back? Maybe they did something to piss him off? Maybe they had just grown apart? We are FANS of their music. We have no clue what goes on in these guys private lives. Nor should we. Its their business. And I am positive that us common folk will never know the exact 'truth' about who did what to who, contracts, etc.

Jumping ahead a little... food for thought. If a judge/jury finds you 'guilty' of something, does that mean you unequivocally ARE guilty of, and actually committed, said offense? Same for being found 'not guilty' (i.e. OJ Simpson case.. everybody knows that he murdered those 2 people!). The law is not perfect. It just provides us with a framework in which to operate.

Think of it any way you want, but Ed Kowalczyk IS the voice of Live. Without him, although extremely talented musicians, the other 3 are a drummer, guitarist, and bass player. And I hope they are fantastically successful at whatever they do, because I sure do love their music.
J