"Dear Fans of LIVE...", A message from TGF Options

[tiger]

Well, the context is skewed by the pejorative tone towards things that are not necessarily sad, like the idea talking about why Ed is in the letter. Or suggesting the idea of cherry picking passionate comments from the band, when in fact such statements are not as fleeting or as un-grounded, as you suggest. Or mentioning proof of a smear campaign, when there was no mention of "proof", nor a smear campaign in the context that you suggest. Or making a conclusion on the misappropriated responses in this thread, by stating how TFG is being gracious, even though nobody on this thread has denied this, and it has actually been suggested on this thread numerous times.

I don't mean to take away from your idea, but I answered here cause you asked. I liked the direction you were taking and I only responded earlier because I like having my ideas come across clearly. In this case it was the smear campaign idea. It almost looks like outtodry has been putting effort similar to a smear campaign, but nobody said anything about proof, and I didn't mean a real sanctioned campaign...though you never know haha.

My comments weren't directed at you and perhaps I'm out of context in that my thoughts are influenced by the fact that nearly every TGF action and thread on this site seems to be met with severe skepticism by Ed supporters and it has been suggested that the two Chads passionate words were calculated as a move to smear Ed and divide the fanbase of Live. Based on their track record in Live I don't find them to be that manipulative. And I do think it is sad that an apparent sincere gesture to keep Live fans informed is somehow viewed as another manipulative move.

[Bremang]

your secrets safe with me, long live TFG!

[Bremang]

My comments weren't directed at you and perhaps I'm out of context in that my thoughts are influenced by the fact that nearly every TGF action and thread on this site seems to be met with severe skepticism by Ed supporters and it has been suggested that the two Chads passionate words were calculated as a move to smear Ed and divide the fanbase of Live. Based on their track record in Live I don't find them to be that manipulative. And I do think it is sad that an apparent sincere gesture to keep Live fans informed is somehow viewed as another manipulative move.

You miss the point then my friend. Hardly anyone viewed the letter as manipulative. TFG fans were saying that it was gracious. Nick said it was a plan to get Live and Ed fans to TFG. That was the only manipulative statement, and i'm sure the band considered it, big deal. Meanwhile, my idea was that it wasnt maniulative at all, but just mandatory to put Ed's name in the newsletter due to contractual obligations.

Tiger, Chad probably knew that his words would hurt Ed's reputation. Do you not agree? Even if he was using it mostly to explain the breakup, it would have had the negative effect on Ed anyway. It wasn't even necessary. He clearly pointed the finger, and expressed being the victim.
But the point is, calculated or not, this wasn't a vital part of the the argument in the thread, simply that Ed's reputation was ruined by the letter. It was used as evidence to speculate Chads possible current stance on Live, and how to interpret the newsletter.

I don't think you really know Live's track record in terms of honesty. They were under the guise of labels most their career, whos only intention is to make money. Chad's blogs over the decades are notoriously flimsy, full of false promises. Fans are gullible, we'd never know what liberties the band has taken. But it seems less significant, because Live still brought the rock, and its all part of creating an image.

Ed is way more beaten down by the TFG folks. I mean, how many Ed supporters are there here, really? I know there is Nick, but I don't see anyone else. Me? I'm just against nonsense. I'm cool w. both bands.

Cmon, I hope you realize that your ideas are very loosely based on whats being said in this thread.

[OutToDry]

And it's TGF, not TFG, you mispelled it in many posts, prob on purpose too.

[tiger]

You miss the point then my friend. Hardly anyone viewed the letter as manipulative. TFG fans were saying that it was gracious. Nick said it was a plan to get Live and Ed fans to TFG. That was the only manipulative statement, and i'm sure the band considered it, big deal. Meanwhile, my idea was that it wasnt maniulative at all, but just mandatory to put Ed's name in the newsletter due to contractual obligations.

Tiger, Chad probably knew that his words would hurt Ed's reputation. Do you not agree? Even if he was using it mostly to explain the breakup, it would have had the negative effect on Ed anyway. It wasn't even necessary. He clearly pointed the finger, and expressed being the victim.
But the point is, calculated or not, this wasn't a vital part of the the argument in the thread, simply that Ed's reputation was ruined by the letter. It was used as evidence to speculate Chads possible current stance on Live, and how to interpret the newsletter.

I don't think you really know Live's track record in terms of honesty. They were under the guise of labels most their career, whos only intention is to make money. Chad's blogs over the decades are notoriously flimsy, full of false promises. Fans are gullible, we'd never know what liberties the band has taken. But it seems less significant, because Live still brought the rock, and its all part of creating an image.

Ed is way more beaten down by the TFG folks. I mean, how many Ed supporters are there here, really? I know there is Nick, but I don't see anyone else. Me? I'm just against nonsense. I'm cool w. both bands.

Cmon, I hope you realize that your ideas are very loosely based on whats being said in this thread.

As someone who has followed this band since at least 1991 my ideas are based on nearly 20 years of what I have witnessed. So yes, I'm out of context in regards to this thread.

[Bremang]

And it's TGF, not TFG, you mispelled it in many posts, prob on purpose too.

ha my bad, too much deconstruction, not enough spell check

[Bremang]

As someone who has followed this band since at least 1991 my ideas are based on nearly 20 years of what I have witnessed. So yes, I'm out of context in regards to this thread.

Your fandom does not justify the words. Just be objective.

[OutToDry]

Several of the Ed fans blasted TGF on their facebook page for communicating the new band on the FOL newletter...they politely told her to go away. They own the mail list so. I haven't seen one person go to Ed's pages and blast him or make a mockery of him. There are only some fans asking him what happened in a discussion thread on his page. He hasn't taken the time to answer other then the interview on Dutch radio...whereby we got a Frank Drebin's "Nothing to See here, please disperse" comments & crickets.

I think the fans got cheated out of the best of this band for 10 years because of someone on an ego trip. Go to the MM forum and take a look see the proof. I'll challenge anyone on this point.

This post has been edited by OutToDry: May 26 2010, 12:00 pm

[tiger]

Your fandom does not justify the words. Just be objective.

Good grief man. I am being objective. And I don't have the time to deconstruct or even construct my thoughts for you. In a nutshell, I have plenty of first hand experience and interactions to form my own opinion that is plenty objective. If you want to disregard that because I don't have the time or the desire to completely spell it out for you then fine.

[Bremang]

Good grief man. I am being objective. And I don't have the time to deconstruct or even construct my thoughts for you. In a nutshell, I have plenty of first hand experience and interactions to form my own opinion that is plenty objective. If you want to disregard that because I don't have the time or the desire to completely spell it out for you then fine.

you were just commenting on things that you thought were happening in the thread, but they didn't happen.

[tiger]

you were just commenting on things that you thought were happening in the thread, but they didn't happen.

I tried to explain myself earlier and agreed that I was out of context in that my thoughts were shaped by much more than this thread alone. Que sera.

[OutToDry]

[Bremang]

Several of the Ed fans blasted TGF on their facebook page for communicating the new band on the FOL newletter...they politely told her to go away. They own the mail list so. I haven't seen one person go to Ed's pages and blast him or make a mockery of him. There are only some fans asking him what happened in a discussion thread on his page. He hasn't taken the time to answer other then the interview on Dutch radio...whereby we got a nothing.

I think the fans got cheated out of the best of this band for 10 years because of someone on an ego trip. Go to the MM forum and take a look see the proof. I'll challenge anyone on this point.

Yeah right, Ed is plenty blasted on his page or elsewhere on the internet. But I thought we were just talking about this board.

That one girl who TGF responded to, that was just silly IMO. If any response at all, the proper thing to do would be to suggest the opt-out function in the email, maybe even tell her privately. But they singled her out in public and humiliated her. Thats the one thing I actually disagree with. Do they expect to not have any dissenting opinions? She even had an OK point, although very debatable.

What is the MM forum?

Yeah right, Live had plenty of gems in the past 10 years. How much better do you think Ed could have done? Hes over 30, had vocal surgery, 2 kids. Americas spotlight turned away from alt rock in the late 90's. The music industry regressed. What do you expect. Its not like anyone was preventing Chad, Chad and Pat from coming up with some kick ass songs to write....but you say its Ed's ego that left the band flat. Maybe he has an ego. Go break away from normal society when you're 18 and sell 20 million records, become a rock star, and we'll see how well your ego is in check. Meanwhile, Ed sings about peace, love, and lack of ego, inspiring on millions of occasions in the past 10 years. Well put my man.

[OutToDry]

Your last few sentences are why your debate is full of hot air. Why did not all 4 get big heads and end the band in 2003 or there after? Why try to keep things together if you're ego is not inflated.
Live's had plenty of gems? They did write em, they weren't allowed in the process...see my lower signature. I think if you like TGF music, you'll get to hear what they've had stored away for a long time. What rock are you living under? Youre in fantasy land my man.

[Bremang]

I tried to explain myself earlier and agreed that I was out of context in that my thoughts were shaped by much more than this thread alone. Que sera.

You posted right "after reading this entire thread" and you were trying to talk about what went on in this thread. Doesn't matter where you draw your thoughts from, your main conclusions are still lacking for the same reasons I mentioned.