this whole break up thing...TGF vs EK Options

[OutToDry]

I am firmly standing on why the breakup occured. Parting of the ways over musical direction. All the final straws were the match to the years of stagnant pool of gasoline.

I watched the old 95-97 live videos recently to verify my beliefs on the split in direction. It'a all plain on the page/screen. These guys had something that is rarely bottled. When adam came on and ed stopped playing the electric guitar and began his prancing idolitry shit, I knew things were moving towards the end.


(Jim, please post what you wrote in Honest Man over here)

[Jim]

This is a post from a different thread that really had nothing to do TGF and Ed, I was asked to move this here to keep the other thread clean. So here it is...

I just disliked how members of TGF handled the break-up publicly. They tried to turn the fanbase on Ed, and in turn win over the Live fan base with pity. The only thing they actually accomplished was splitting a certain percentage of the fanbase between Ed and themselves.

Well lets be fair here, what TGF did publicly was the direct result of stuff that Ed did privately. So privately in fact, that the other people in the band didn't even know about it until 4 to 5 years later. I'm talking about the hidden publishing contract Ed signed. We probably wouldn't be even dealing with this "hiatus" if it weren't for Ed's actions. I dislike how Ed broke up the band over greed and selfishness, while singing about faith, love, and peace in every song. It's sad in a way, he has just become so fake and cliched at this point that I never would have imagined this is what he would become.

Even when I ran Live-Web ~10 years ago there were hints of Ed being way too controlling of the band, and their music. (And with "V" it was pretty damn obvious). When I came back to check on Live only to find they had broken up due to secret deals Ed had done...well, I was not surprised at all.

This post has been edited by Jim: May 2 2010, 12:40 pm

[Pokey]

I just disliked how members of TGF handled the break-up publicly. They tried to turn the fanbase on Ed, and in turn win over the Live fan base with pity. The only thing they actually accomplished was splitting a certain percentage of the fanbase between Ed and themselves.

(Might as well delete my response to the same Nick post and move it here too)

And again that is just pure speculation ... lets say every word from them was 100% truth, would you still begrudge them for going public with it? Now I did say IF, because you obviously think its lies in an attempt to hurt Ed, I don't think it's 100% truth, not because they're lying but it'd be silly to accept it as 100% truth without hearing Ed's side ... he's offered no such insight so that makes it hard. So, hypothetically speaking. This is where you seem way more interested in how the band is viewed publicly, albums sales, promotions and all this stuff rather than the music itself.
Have you honestly ever thought about trying to get into the music industry? That's a serious question, you think like a record exec would.
You just seem to get confused with what the truth is, and what you'd like the truth to be.

The fans were clammering for answers on the break up before anything was said by either side, rumours were flying around everywhere, some really nasty ones like Ed screwing one of the other guy's wife and all that kinda stuff. They stepped up and put an end to that. Some guy came on here who had inside info and basically told the story of Ed asking for money and going behind the others backs. He was laughed at initially and viewed as just another person with a crazy rumour. A couple of days later Chad made his statement and turns out this guy did know the story. I saw Chad's public statement as something a lot of fans think that was owed to them ... they wanted to know why their favorite band broke up. Ed was refusing to acknowledge Live's existance so they wern't getting answers there. How you can view this as purely a tactic to split the fan base is beyond me.

True you get the cheap shots by the other guys in the occassional facebook comment or twitter, but thats not happend for a long time and it was hardly what you'd call a smear campaign, if they wanted to hurt Ed they could have gone a lot harder. It seems they were hurt and frustrated and lashed out, they're only human.

Surely if you're gonna take that point of view, you could also view Ed's complete lack of acknowledgement, blatant lying about the band's current relationship and such as a lack of respect. I see Ed's silence as more incrimination than anything.

[OutToDry]

This is the best objective logical answer one can give. Good one Poke.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

Even when I ran Live-Web ~10 years ago there were hints of Ed being way too controlling of the band, and their music. (And with "V" it was pretty damn obvious). When I came back to check on Live only to find they had broken up due to secret deals Ed had done...well, I was not surprised at all.

Jim it is good to see you around these parts, Live Web was the shit.

[Merica]

The guy who says they "phoned it in" obviously can't be taken too seriously, but I've honestly always wondered how controlling Ed can possibly have been. I mean, lyrically, sure - but musically? Why does SFBM sound so weak and frilly? Did Ed say to them HEY MAKE IT LIGHT!? If so, why did they lay down and do it?

I can't see how things nosedived so much. If the three guys really gave a shit, then I can't understand why it got so bad. Obviously it did, and somehow these things happened, but that's always confused me.

[OutToDry]

I really do think they gave Ed (as Chad stated in the FOL email), their 100% dedication on keeping things together. Quite rightly, it's scared to break something up that was their entire life since they were little kids. It's human nature to wait things out. I think as the final straws were known, the ship was already burning and away from the dock. This is life for them, for us it's our strange little hobby.

And Jim, Live-Web was the shit man!!! Welcome.

This post has been edited by OutToDry: May 2 2010, 1:39 pm

[Jim]

Jim it is good to see you around these parts, Live Web was the shit.

Thanks! Hard to believe that was nearly 10 years ago! Man, I feel old!

[Merica]

I really do think they gave Ed (as Chad stated in the FOL email), their 100% dedication on keeping things together. Quite rightly, it's scared to break something up that was their entire life since they were little kids. It's human nature to wait things out. I think as the final straws were known, the ship was already burning and away from the dock. This is life for them, for us it's our strange little hobby.

Yeah, I get the "it's their whole life" point of view, but it really doesn't make sense to me that they would have just laid down and let Ed take full charge of this pansy ass music. If that's what they did, then they're just as much to blame than Ed. Collectively, even moreso. There's three of them and if they had a real choice but choose to do nothing, then the blame of decline in quality must be equally shared. Pat for not insisting his bass spoke up, Chad G for his safe drums and Chad T for his la-la-la forgettable guitar work. And Ed, of course, for them there shit words.

Of course, there could have been something else going on, I don't know. Even if it was my whole life, if one guy in the band suddenly hogged all writing responsibilities and had full charge I'd have been like HEY, WHAT THE MOTHERFUCK?!

[OutToDry]

some of us are

[Pokey]

The guy who says they "phoned it in" obviously can't be taken too seriously, but I've honestly always wondered how controlling Ed can possibly have been. I mean, lyrically, sure - but musically? Why does SFBM sound so weak and frilly? Did Ed say to them HEY MAKE IT LIGHT!? If so, why did they lay down and do it?

I can't see how things nosedived so much. If the three guys really gave a shit, then I can't understand why it got so bad. Obviously it did, and somehow these things happened, but that's always confused me.

You could even view it like a relationship ... even when it's in trouble, if you still care for the person and love them you want to try and work it out. You might try and stick by and support them. I suppose the situation is complicated and isn't quite so black and white ... it's easy for us to sit back and go "well if they guys were so unhappy around the SFBM era, why didnt they just quit then?" ... But you'd have to think that given how much history they had and the emotions involved and all that, it wouldn't just be as easy as that.

I still think Believe is the example of why things fell apart. CT obviously had written the music and really loved it and wanted to use it, Ed did the lyrics of course ... and they just didn't come together. It sounded awkward. Maybe this is where the other guys stood up finally and said "hey we really want to use this stuff", and Ed stood firm and just didn't want anyone else writing music for his lyrics?

Had the guys just given in and gone "ok you're right Ed, what should we do next?" .. maybe Live would still be around now and we'd be listening to their new album now, but that would just be continuing the unhappy marraige as so many people do.
If the guys had stood firm and back before SFBM then maybe the break up would have happend then. Either way it has happend.

This post has been edited by Pokey: May 2 2010, 1:48 pm

[Merica]

Yeah, it's obviously not a black-and-white kind of thing. I know it mighthave been easier just going along with Ed, but an album cycle is like a good 3-4 years of your life. If they weren't happy with the material then JESUS that must have been agony.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

Yeah, it's obviously not a black-and-white kind of thing. I know it mighthave been easier just going along with Ed, but an album cycle is like a good 3-4 years of your life. If they weren't happy with the material then JESUS that must have been agony.

It is hard to explain, but as a guy who has been in and around a lot of bands, the whole situation makes sense. It is a really different culture for musicians and bands.

I think for CT, CG, and PD it just became a job for awhile. This happens to a lot of musicians as they get older. It is a difficult and draining industry, and having a career dependent on creativity and performance is pretty demanding.

Usually they older musicians don't turn it back on ever, but it seems like the guys wanted to so good for them.

[OutToDry]

To coin a lyric from John Lee Hooker........"Hey momma, you got to let that boy boogie woogie", "It's in him and it's got to come out"!!

[Aitkens]

Link to a trustful resource?

I know and remember with 100% conviction that Overcome was around before V. It was an acoustic song, and I was outraged when it was sold out/redone, and made out to be a song written as a 9/11 remembrance.




It's also freaking great to see Jim around these parts. I miss the great days of Live-Web.



I will also add, that growing up and living in York, PA, everyone has a Live story. Generally, you'll be told that the guys were great and it was nice to see them succeed. You also hear a great deal of stories about how Ed was a pain in the ass and very cocky when he was younger and when LIVE was starting to blow up.