Impossible Politics Options

[gotigrz]

You admit you don't know much about anything other than what people tell you, yet you continue arguing in this thread. I just don't get it. And now you are ripping on Canadians??

Define capitalism without looking it up on the internet. I dare you.

from what i understand, capitalism is where you can work where you want, sell what you want, for the price you want to sell it, make as much money as you can... but, you will pay taxes on what you sell and what you have. i know it goes A LOT deeper than that, but the main thing is that the gov't doesn't tell you what you're gonna do with your business or how you're gonna run it.

so, did i get it right?

[FishOutaWater]

Here is a summary of the Healthcare Reform law based on a quick Google Search. It's hard to argue with any of these things, except maybe the madatory coverage thing, but I guess that is necessary, like the way they require all drivers to get car insurance.

IMMEDIATE
* Provides a $250 rebate to Medicare prescription drug plan beneficiaries whose initial benefits run out. This closes the 'donut hole' that crushes most seniors with medication expenses.

* Businesses with fewer than 50 employees will get tax credits covering up to 50% of employee premiums.

* New plans must cover checkups and other preventative care without co-pays.

* Insurance companies can no longer cut someone when he or she gets sick.

* Insurers must now reveal how much money is spent on overhead.

* Any new plan must now implement an appeals process for coverage determinations and claims.

* New screening procedures will be implemented to help eliminate health insurance fraud and waste.

* The bill establishes a temporary program for companies that provide early retiree health benefits for those ages 55‐64 in order to help reduce the often-expensive cost of that coverage.


AFTER 90 DAYS
* Provides immediate access to high-risk insurance pools for people who have no insurance because of preexisting conditions.

AFTER SIX MONTHS
* Bars insurers from denying people coverage when they get sick.

* Prevents insurers from denying coverage to children who have preexisting conditions. Children, not adults yet.

* Bars insurers from imposing lifetime caps on coverage.

* Requires insurers to allow young people to stay on their parents' policies until age 26.

2011
* Requires individual and small group insurance plans to spend at least 80% of premium dollars on medical services. Large group plans would have to spend at least 85%.

2013
* Increases the Medicare payroll tax and expands it to dividend, interest and other unearned income for singles earning more than $200,000 a year and joint filers making more than $250,000.

2014
* Insurers prohibited from denying adults coverage for preexisting conditions

* Provides subsidies for families earning up to 400% of the poverty level to purchase health insurance.

* Requires most employers to provide coverage or face penalties.

* Requires most people to obtain coverage or face penalties.

[Sakhmet2]

this coming from a canadian. well, there is no doubt that the united states of america is, or at least was, one of the greatest countries in the world to live in. that is not debatable.

I don't know what you have against Canadians, or imagine that you know about Canada but Canada is a great country - but I'll let the United Nations make my point for me:
Best Country to Live: List of Countries on 2009 UN HDI
The United Nation Development Programme (UNDP) released its 2009 Human Development Report, and ranked 182 countries in terms of the quality of life of their citizens, or the UN Human Development Index (HDI). The criteria included life expectancy, literacy rates, school enrollment, and the country's economy.
Top 30 on Human Development Index Ranking


1. Norway
2. Australia
3. Iceland
4. Canada
5. Ireland
6. Netherlands
7. Sweden
8. France
9. Switzerland
10. Japan
11. Luxembourg
12. Finland
13. United States
14. Austria
15. Spain
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/best-countr...ies-2009-un-hdi

so, if capitalism is the great american delusion.... then tell me what is it, or was it, that made the usa so great?

The ideals expressed here:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

or here:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Great words. Great ideals. And then their successors sold their souls for some dirty bits of paper.

This post has been edited by Sakhmet2: Apr 7 2010, 3:19 pm

[gotigrz]

fish, all of that sounds fair... but, what about what they're not telling you. this is the beginning of the end of the usa being a democracy.

but, honestly, it seems that capitalism is the gov't ruling your life while trying to make you feel free, and communism/socialism is the gov't ruling your life and not even trying to hide it. ha ha....

[thefunkyredcaboose]

from what i understand, capitalism is where you can work where you want, sell what you want, for the price you want to sell it, make as much money as you can... but, you will pay taxes on what you sell and what you have. i know it goes A LOT deeper than that, but the main thing is that the gov't doesn't tell you what you're gonna do with your business or how you're gonna run it.

so, did i get it right?

Your definition is solid, problem is that based on your definition we haven't been a capitalist country since the great depression, if not earlier. Don't worry, there were people back then who thought we would become socialists too. Did we?

Fish, the mandatory coverage has inspired a lot of unjust outrage. It's pretty simple, I think. If there was no mandated coverage and no restriction on pre-existing conditions then someone could just simply wait until they got sick to buy insurance. The ends justify the means in this case, I think.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

fish, all of that sounds fair... but, what about what they're not telling you. this is the beginning of the end of the usa being a democracy.

You can't be serious.

[VoodooLady]

Oh fuck.. Fish & Funky Red, you've been found about by Glenn Beck..

http://beck.cnnbcvideo.com/?email=0&rc=taf...9194874-j8Plfwx

This post has been edited by VoodooLady: Apr 7 2010, 3:59 pm

[thefunkyredcaboose]

[iateyourcookie]

fish, all of that sounds fair... but, what about what they're not telling you. this is the beginning of the end of the usa being a democracy.

but, honestly, it seems that capitalism is the gov't ruling your life while trying to make you feel free, and communism/socialism is the gov't ruling your life and not even trying to hide it. ha ha....

There's an idea that suggests that it's better to remain quiet and be thought an idiot, rather than speak and remove all doubt.

You, sir, are an idiot.

The idea that "your" taxes are being spent on providing medical benefits to people paying less taxes is flawed. You do not own your taxes. Allow me to emphasise that point; it's important.

You do not own your taxes.

It's a concept thrown around by the media here, as well, that "taxpayers dollars" are being spent (apparently inappropriately, more often than not) on this or that. Shits me to tears.

Gotigrz, your taxes are a portion of your income that belongs to the government to provide for the betterment of your country. Simple. Any sense of ownership, or belonging, is misguided at best. And when the Federal Reserve is injecting money into the economy as fast as they can print it; it is just ridiculous for you to suggest that the meagre amount of tax that you personally pay is being grossly misappropriated in supporting low income earners or those without the advantages of employment. And I say this as someone who currently pays more in taxes than most here would earn.

I believe that America became the great nation that it is (or arguably, was) because of a collective entrepreneurial spirit and a common desire to create that greatness in the so-called country of freedom. Tell me, if you can, how restricting access of healthcare to its people is what a country needs to become great, or even maintain greatness? Instead, today, there is an entitlement mentality; everyone wants what everyone else has, and heaven forbid that "your" taxes are being spent to someone else's advantage.

That's not embracing a capitalist perspective, mate.

Nor is it good for your country.

[gotigrz]

Gotigrz, your taxes are a portion of your income that belongs to the government to provide for the betterment of your country

first, i am not an idiot. you don' t know me from adam. maybe i don't have a clue about politics and taxes and whatnot, but i'll be damned if i'm gonna sit back and let you call me an idiot when you don't have a freaking clue about anything about me. i'm a college graduate.... i have a job.... i have a wife and a son that i take care of, .... i know i'm a smart person, and the only thing that makes me feel like an idiot is responding to you.

secondly, my taxes are a portion of my income that belongs to the gov't? honestly, i don't see how any of my income BELONGS to the gov't. and, outside of the taxes i pay, what else of my income "belongs" to the gov't? not to get sidetracked, but i believe that absolutely none of my income belongs to the gov't.... i believe it all belongs to God. i give thanks to Him, not congress. by your reaction to my comments it sounds like you may work for the gov't.

but, according to you i should drop down on my knees and give thanks to obama for not taking all the money that belongs to the gov't and letting me keep some.... is that right? i really want to know why you think any of my paycheck BELONGS to the gov't. i see taxes as a sort of fee that we have to pay... not something that automatically belongs to the gov't. i have to pay for my utilities, but they don't own the money i pay them for it. honestly, i don't think anyone OWNS the money... money is just a form of trade that is worthless until you trade it for something.

[iateyourcookie]

Let's not make this a religious argument. There's another thread for that.

And, no, I do not work for the government. Enough said there.

You choose to live in America, and you are therefore bound to forfeit a portion of your income to the American government to do with what they please. Perhaps do some research; you may be surprised to learn that the benefits received by the average middle-class American family will far outweigh their own contributions in taxes.

You're already a benefactor of middle-class welfare. Who do you think pays for the defence and police forces for your safety? The subsidies given to your local schools? The roads that you drive on?

And yet, you have the tenacity to suggest that "your" taxes should not be spent on providing access to healthcare for those who cannot afford it...?


***

A poor man has a thousand wishes. An unhealthy man has but one.

This post has been edited by iateyourcookie: Apr 8 2010, 8:24 am

[thefunkyredcaboose]

first, i am not an idiot. you don' t know me from adam. maybe i don't have a clue about politics and taxes and whatnot, but i'll be damned if i'm gonna sit back and let you call me an idiot when you don't have a freaking clue about anything about me. i'm a college graduate.... i have a job.... i have a wife and a son that i take care of, .... i know i'm a smart person, and the only thing that makes me feel like an idiot is responding to you.

So THIS is Christianity. I see...

[FishOutaWater]

Two quick things this morning.

First, today I read a blog post that says practically the exact same thing that I wrote yesterday about Glenn Beck, including the comparison to professional wrestling:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/ex...a_b_528966.html

It's like he was reading my mind. That's a funny coincidence.


Second thing - about taxes: There was an interesting article on the USAToday.com website that states that about 47% of the American population will pay no federal income taxes for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization. In other words, almost half the American population pays no income taxes. And they get a heck of a lot of services and protection in exchange.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/...ome-taxes_N.htm

[Sonic Tonic]

first, i am not an idiot. you don' t know me from adam. maybe i don't have a clue about politics and taxes and whatnot, but i'll be damned if i'm gonna sit back and let you call me an idiot when you don't have a freaking clue about anything about me. i'm a college graduate.... i have a job.... i have a wife and a son that i take care of, .... i know i'm a smart person, and the only thing that makes me feel like an idiot is responding to you.

Actually we kinda do know a bit about you and your views. And I won't call you an idiot, I'm sure you're a great husband and father but a lot of the shit you say can come off as idiotic. Either way, carry on.

[VoodooLady]

Looked up the definition of IDIOT at Dictionary.com

id·i·ot    –noun
1. an utterly foolish or senseless person.
2. Psychology. a person of the lowest order in a former classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25.

Origin:
1250–1300; private person, layman, person lacking skill or expertise

you all decide...