I'm sorry....but didn't Live used to be a rock band? Options

[Costakoui]

Well, I completely disagree with what you said.
Dolphins Cry a standout rocker? That song was designed to be a pop song to appeal to the mainstream crowd.
Live is a completely different band now and for you to say that TDTH is as pop as SFBM is ridiclulous.
Where Fishes Go a pop song? Are you serious.

Obviously, we view “pop” differently. If pop is about popularity, as this is what you implied with your reference to The dolphin’s cry, then Lightning Crashes is the poppiest song ever made by Live, and TC the poppiest album.

I did not say that WFG is pop. I said that it is not a hard rocker and it definitely does not rock more than some songs on SFBM or BoP.

[flyersfan62379]

I'll put it to you all this way: I respect an artist more for being artistic and strange and creative and original. I don't think Live's music is artistic anymore and too transparent. To me, their last two albums contain a "safe" sound, trying to reach out to a new, larger audience because the audience they had before faded away. Almost like they’re trying to "keep up with the times." But, for me, that just isn't Live, even if they've truly matured into what they currently are. You can't duplicate sounds and albums from the past because it wouldn't be genuine, but you can lay down a familiar blueprint and capitalize with it, even if it's just for the remaining hardcore fans. In other words, I don't think Live is trying to please their true fans and instead are trying to reach out to others to create album sales with more appeasing music to the masses. If that's the case, I don't respect that.

Maybe it's where I'm from and life as I know it. Being a PA native and an East Coaster, I understood where Live was coming from up until 1999. The darkness and the "angst" of their albums felt familiar and I could relate. Sort of like the same feelings I get and got with Metallica, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, etc.

Throwing Copper and Secret Samadhi were recorded in Minnesota and New York. V, Birds of Pray and Songs from Black Mountain were recorded in California. Different sounds for different atmospheres and surroundings? I'm positive that plays a role. Not sure where The Distance to Here or Mental Jewerly were recorded.

[tiger]

It's fun reading how people tear this apart. I have a new found admiration for critics that actually put their opinions to print.

Anyway, as a life long LIVE fan I have to get it off my chest too. So many things have already been posted here, so I'll try not to repeat and just pick up on the good stuff:

1) Do any of the songs on SFBM make you stop and listen? NO! I still remember exactly where I was when I first heard Operation Spirit come over the airwaves. Not many bands can do that over and over again. LIVE did a few times for the first 10 years. But not since.

2) The discussions about "too pop or not too pop" are rediculous. The real problem I see is that the new label is getting in the way of the music to the same degree as the last label neglected the band. Anybody who has the early leaks of some of the songs would have to be def to not hear what has happened. They killed some really good songs by trying to make them too appealable to a broader audience, i.e. to fit into a mold, i.e. to get them on the radio and get more records sold!!! I for one believe that anybody who sets out to make music in that way is destined to fail. In the Dual Disk interviews they talk about how they tracked the whole thing in 3 weeks. YIKES!! And then it has taken them almost a year to release it? That says loads about the amount of post production that took place! What a shame.

3) I think somebody already mentioned it, but it has to be said again: this album is not a LIVE album. It is the Ed K. album with backing by the artists formerly known as live. I don't know how they wrote music earlier. I have always understood that Ed comes in with the lyric and the songs worked to some degree, but then they evolve into the album. But not this time. It's all ED! Why else is he travelling the world promoting it alone with his acoustic and not the rest of the band? And it is because of that that I think it also sounds so different to the past. Everybody talks about SS. Well they went off to Jamaica for 6 months and jammed and got friendly with the gardner back then ..the result was some really freaky stuff that rocked. SFBM does not have that quality and I believe never was intended too. Those are just different eras!! Then (young guys blown away by massive commercial success and pissin' in the wind of the mainstream - I really liked that quote!) and now (mature artists trying to make a living doing what they love).

4) A famous legendary artist once said: "You can make one crap album and get away with it. If you make two, you're out!" Well, in terms of commercial success, LIVE should now be "out" but they are NOT! Their longevity and following still means something, but they won't be on the cover of Rolling Stone ever again!

Summary? I think it is all about expectation management. I will listen to SFBM, but more often then not I will revert to other albums that I like better. It has it's moments, but it does not blow me away with amazing new sounds that convince of something greater.

I give it a 5 Dick!

PS Sorry about the length of the post but if you no likey, then just skippy

you're on to something here.

[Alex]

I doubt the location would have had that much impact on the sound of the recording if they had written the songs before entering the studio. I partly blame Jim fucking Wirt for this horrible pop crap. I honestly don't see how all these people that have loved live for a long time can defend this piece of shit. Do you people REALLY like it or are you just trying to hold on to your favourite band for some other reason? Atm, after hearing this album, I doubt I would even go and see Live in concert anymore... I would have seen all the old songs already and the new ones hardly appeal to me.

From what I've observed, though, it seems like the people that have been on Fansoflive since back in the day share my side of the spectrum more so than the worshipping side...

[DesertWater]

Obviously, we view “pop” differently. If pop is about popularity, as this is what you implied with your reference to The dolphin’s cry, then Lightning Crashes is the poppiest song ever made by Live, and TC the poppiest album.

I did not say that WFG is pop. I said that it is not a hard rocker and it definitely does not rock more than some songs on SFBM or BoP.

Yea, "pop" can be viewed differently by different people. And I'm not quite clear what it means because I keep contradicting myself. However, in my opinion dolphins cry was meant to fit in with the mainstream crowd like all of SFBM. TDTH is more than a pop album though, and sure there are pop songs on it, but as a whole BOP and SFBM do not rock more than TDTH. It could be that I don't feel that powerful effect Live had on me their first four albums, and I just hear Ed singing without the band. Before they played as a group, but now there is no group, just Ed.

[Bull]

I strongly disagree that the majority of TDTH is "pop." The Dolphin's Cry, They Stood Up For Love and Run to the Water...yes. They were/are radio-friendly. Yet, the album itself possesses such a feeling of maturity and brightness, still with a hint of darkness. It's so fresh and different from anything they've ever done and that's what I've always respected and liked about Live. They used to re-invent themselves on each album. Sun is pure vintage Live. Deeply rooted. Voodoo Lady and Where Fishes Go are so dark and extremely strange and weird, I love them...then comes Face and Ghost, which is a totally different path and light-hearted, and so forth.

It's hard to convey what you feel towards an album, but when I think back to TDTH, I feel and see the cooler weather, fall weather, the holidays, the end of the 20th century and I, myself, maturing. I've said it before and will again, TDTH is their most "complete" album to date and has a little bit of everything.

Even though I did not care for V in the least, I could respect the fact that it was experimental and they wanted to try more electronics and even a "hip-hop"-like style. I thought it'd was a one-and-done project and they were allowed a "pass" towards making a less-than-thrilling album when the 4 before it were great. I looked forward to 2003...

The problem I have with BOP and now SFBM is that there is very little creativity involved, at least that's what I gather. A song can be as simple as Dance With You and be excellent if it has substance. The songs on the last two albums are simple enough, but contain "fluff." I don't care for the "la-de-da"-like lyrics or every single song stating the same, "lets-do-it-for-the-children-and-for-love." If you're going to conduct those redundant themes, do it differently. Stop with the overly-polished tracks. In short, I think the band is just trying too damn hard.

If these last two albums are not "pop," then they should be classified as "soft rock" played on a station loaded with Bryan Adams, Peter Cetera and Amy Grant. U2's last two albums can be considered "pop" and that might be a good label for them, but the songs on How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb, with the exception of Vertigo, are not forced. They come together genuinely.

Live is pressing. If you listen to Meltdown and then Home or Feel the Quiet River Rage, then The Sanctity of Dreams, well, you know...

I agree 100% with what you said about TDTH in this post. Yeah, it wasn't as "hard" or "rockin" as TC or SS, but the lyrics and overall musical quality of this album are what set it apart from the others. TDTH really made me THINK and invoked my imagination while listening to the songs. Since then, I've rarely had the opportunity to ponder any of the lyrics. They are so right in your face about love and sweaty thongs and what not. Rockin or not, what I love (or loved) about Live the most was the creativity among their lyrics and the way their songs were delivered.

I'd take Jesco White, Hitler in a robe of truth and the Tibetan Book of the Dead in the lyrics any day over replacement hips and the crucifix not being a baseball bat!

I used to hate reading on the boards when people were speaking out like this when V and BoP came out. And now I find myself doing it. Maybe I'm just having a hard time coming to face the reality that the band I fell in love with has drastically deviated from those traits that made me fall in love. Now with each of the last 3 albums moving further and further in a different direction, I guess I'm kind of resigning to the fact they will never get back to the stuff I fell in love with their music for. Here's hoping that isn't true though!!!

I'll always stay on board with Live, even if I might rock the boat from time to time. I'm going to see them next Sat at Penn St. I'm sure it'll still be a rockin' show and I'll love every min of it!


Bull

sorry, may have brought up some old topics here...hadn't backread everything in this thread before posting.

This post has been edited by Bull: Apr 14 2006, 9:23 am

[Bull]

Maybe it's where I'm from and life as I know it. Being a PA native and an East Coaster, I understood where Live was coming from up until 1999. The darkness and the "angst" of their albums felt familiar and I could relate. Sort of like the same feelings I get and got with Metallica, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, etc.

Throwing Copper and Secret Samadhi were recorded in Minnesota and New York. V, Birds of Pray and Songs from Black Mountain were recorded in California. Different sounds for different atmospheres and surroundings? I'm positive that plays a role. Not sure where The Distance to Here or Mental Jewerly were recorded.

Also being a PA native, I understand where you're coming from. Shit Towne sure hits home for a lot of diff reasons, doesn't it!?

In regards to where material was created and/or recorded, I believe LJ was actually conjured up while the band was vacationing in Mexico or the Carribean somewhere. I think I remember hearing that on the SS Radio disc I have. So yes, I do think location has an influence on creative and the music that's produced, however I don't think you can say East/North are good and West/South are bad when it comes to creativity. Its all in what the creators are searching for that helps the landscape mold that picture.


Bull

[flaterik]

This might sum it up: I went to see the boyz in Seyerville last November and took a friend with his wife. They were both LIVE virgins. On the way to the show we tracked through AWAKE and the Mrs. said "Lighting Crashes? They play that? Oh I remember that!" At the same time my buddy was hearing stuff like LJ, I Alone and saying "cool, this rocks!"

Two hours later on our way home she was saying "man, that Ed guy can really sing, and I so liked Heaven and that new song River" whilst my buddy was going off on how awesome Shit Towne was (which btw was definately the high point of the evening).

Any questions?

[bman2112]

This might sum it up: I went to see the boyz in Seyerville last November and took a friend with his wife. They were both LIVE virgins. On the way to the show we tracked through AWAKE and the Mrs. said "Lighting Crashes? They play that? Oh I remember that!" At the same time my buddy was hearing stuff like LJ, I Alone and saying "cool, this rocks!"

Two hours later on our way home she was saying "man, that Ed guy can really sing, and I so liked Heaven and that new song River" whilst my buddy was going off on how awesome Shit Towne was (which btw was definately the high point of the evening).

Any questions?

So girls like soft music? and Boys