gotigrz's - 'Jesus is the only way to heaven' thread, split from "Is Ed... a Christian Again?" Options

[thefunkyredcaboose]

there is not ONE (1) true Christian out there that would say... "there are many ways to get to Heaven, i just happen to choose the way of the Lord." so, to say that you hope i don't speak for the majority of Christians... well, i have bad news for you... i speak for ALL Christians... all true Christians, anyway.

Jesus is also recorded as saying this:

"‘Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get."

I believe that Christianity is about following the teachings of Jesus; namely love, justice, and peace. You have now judged me and every other Christian who believes this, as well as all non-Christians, and not to mention every single person in your own Old Testament. The Jews are going to hell right?

So, congratulations I guess. Heaven is going to be a lonely place.

ON TOPIC: I can't speak for Ed, but considering his lyrics over the years and also what he says in concert, I would think that Ed's particular brand of Christianity would line up with a liberal/mystical type Christianity. This means namely, following the teachings of Jesus and believing that mystical communion with God is possible. Jesus is a great teacher, much like Buddha, as they taught many similar beliefs. Ultimately, it is about the teachings and the spirituality.

I doubt Ed believes that Jesus is the only way to heaven, or any other modern conservative/fundamentalist belief. Not all Christians believe that, no matter what our buddy here says. There are so many different versions of Christianity that it is staggering, but, unfortunately the ultra-conservative beliefs are often depicted as the only Christianity. That is quite offensive.

Like I said, I can't speak for Ed but I thought that may help some of you who are concerned that Ed has now turned into a fundamentalist Baptist preacher from the South.

[iateyourcookie]

i think people forget that Christians didn't make their own rules about God.

Mate, this is naive at best. 2,000-odd years of chinese whispers and ambiguous translations don't help.

To demonstrate:

Do you know why the flood was forty days and forty nights, and why Noah waited another forty days before opening the ark? And remember how they wandered in the desert for forty days, and Moses camped on the mountain for forty nights, and how Jesus fasted for forty days? And then that time the spies took forty days to scout out the promised lands, and when Nineveh had forty days to repent? Oh, and how many days did Jesus have to withstand Satan's temptations...?

'Forty', in ancient Hebrew, generally represented 'many'; not necessarily one more than thirty-nine. And yet, biblically, it is deemed to be exact. If such a small and innocuous word can be mistranslated and now stated as fact, how much of the texts can actually be directly taken as gospel?

Organised religion has always interpreted and enforced the 'word of god' to their own benefit. Look at the Crusades, for Christ's sake. An open mind is the greatest gift that the Lord gave us, and choosing to close it to the opinions of others only spurns that offering and makes for a lesser person.

Challenge your assumptions and tolerate those of others. Your belief is exactly that, only that; and so, is no more fair for you to presume accuracy than anyone else.

[Existentialist]

I think if anyone believes in anything concrete regarding religion and the afterlife, they're misguided.

[Senghe]

'Forty', in ancient Hebrew, generally represented 'many'; not necessarily one more than thirty-nine. And yet, biblically, it is deemed to be exact. If such a small and innocuous word can be mistranslated and now stated as fact, how much of the texts can actually be directly taken as gospel

Anybody who takes the bible literally as the word of god knows absolutely nothing about he history of the religion they cannot stand upright without. And sadly these are the very people that like to beat anybody who will listen over he head with their naive bigotry. And that is, ironically, a very unchristian form of behaviour.

I only believe in life before death and grew out of the need for imaginary friends quit a few decades ago.

[Pokey]

how much of the texts can actually be directly taken as gospel?

ooo nice pun


I just love that old saying that went along the lines of:

If God is all powerful and can do anything and everything then he would be able to make a rock so heavy that he can't lift it, but if he can do that, then he can't do anything and everything since he would be unable to lift it.

[gotigrz]

i respect where all of you are coming from. i just don't believe you're right. with that said... please show me where i have judged anyone. all i have done is tell everyone what i believe and that i was happy that ed decided to follow Jesus. how is that judging anyone? if anything, i've been the one who has been judged.

"Anybody who takes the bible literally as the word of god knows absolutely nothing about the history of the religion they cannot stand upright without."

"Now I know who that "Jesus loves you... but everyone else thinks you're a twat" fridge magnet was made in honour of."

"That dude is starting to creep me out."

"You're giving believers a bad name, dude"

so, once again, i ask you to find the text where i judged anyone... and when you do, i will apologize.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

You began casting judgment the minute you started deciding who is and who isn't a true Christian.

Isn't your God the judge of that?

I didn't say any of the quotes you listed above, so I cannot speak for those people.

[gotigrz]

[quote name='thefunkyredcaboose' date='May 14 2009, 8:41 am' post='47666']

"You began casting judgment the minute you started deciding who is and who isn't a true Christian."

i am not the one who is deciding anything. a Christian is a believer in Jesus Christ and ALL that He is. that's not my definition it's THE definition. look it up. and, if someone says they're a Christian, but also says that Jesus isn't the only way... then they are lying to themselfs.

"Isn't your God the judge of that?"

yes, as i just explained in my last answer. people think Christians chose to make Jesus the Lord and Saviour of ALL people. we didn't. God did. if you're gonna think anyone is close minded, then you'll have to think that God is the One close minded. but, He's not. if He was He wouldn't of given us an atonement for our sins.

Jesus said He was the only way to the Father. If Christians believe that, and care about another's salvation, we won't lie just so you won't think us to be "mean".

I don't want to be unkind in the way I speak, but it is important for me not to compromise who Jesus is.

[crazy1]

Organised religion has always interpreted and enforced the 'word of god' to their own benefit. Look at the Crusades, for Christ's sake. An open mind is the greatest gift that the Lord gave us, and choosing to close it to the opinions of others only spurns that offering and makes for a lesser person.

Challenge your assumptions and tolerate those of others. Your belief is exactly that, only that; and so, is no more fair for you to presume accuracy than anyone else.

[crazy1]

i don't know you, or any non believers personally, but i pray for lost souls all the time. i pray that one day "the light" will shine on you and you will see that we all owe our lives to something greater than ourselfs.

I think its a Buddhist saying and it goes something like this:
Just because someone is on a different path as you, does not mean they are lost.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

GoTigrz,

We agree on something, a Christian is a believer in Jesus Christ. BUT there are many varying interpretations of Jesus. Maybe not in the American Bible belt where you live, but all over the world.

But just to show how well this works out, look at something you yourself said: "Jesus the Lord and Saviour of ALL people." Now, you obviously meant that as Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven. But I could also choose to take it literally to say Jesus is the "savior of all people." I guess that makes you a Universalist doesn't it?

See how easy it is to interpret something differently?

Oh, and you don't know who Jesus is. You know what four different sources (that disagree on many details) say about who Jesus was. We don't even have the original manuscripts of those sources either! You may believe Jesus is a certain thing and that is fine, but it is not knowledge it is faith, and your interpretation is based off of a certain sector of Christianity.

If you want your faith to be that the majority of people on earth, and in the Bible, are burning in Hell then that is fine. Just don't be so surprised when other people don't want to believe that.

[gotigrz]

GoTigrz,

We agree on something, a Christian is a believer in Jesus Christ. BUT there are many varying interpretations of Jesus. Maybe not in the American Bible belt where you live, but all over the world.

But just to show how well this works out, look at something you yourself said: "Jesus the Lord and Saviour of ALL people." Now, you obviously meant that as Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven. But I could also choose to take it literally to say Jesus is the "savior of all people." I guess that makes you a Universalist doesn't it?

See how easy it is to interpret something differently?

Oh, and you don't know who Jesus is. You know what four different sources (that disagree on many details) say about who Jesus was. We don't even have the original manuscripts of those sources either! You may believe Jesus is a certain thing and that is fine, but it is not knowledge it is faith, and your interpretation is based off of a certain sector of Christianity.

If you want your faith to be that the majority of people on earth, and in the Bible, are burning in Hell then that is fine. Just don't be so surprised when other people don't want to believe that.

oh, i'm not surprised. God said that it would be this way. and, you're right... everything i believe is based on faith. just as Jesus said to thomas... "Is it because you have seen me that you have believed? How blessed are those who have never seen me and yet have believed!".

[Pokey]

How blessed are those who have never seen me and yet have believed!".

Why are they more blessed? (as this seems to imply)

[thefunkyredcaboose]

Wow, yeah you really got me there and certainly responded rationally to all my points.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

Why are they more blessed? (as this seems to imply)

Pokey, don't you know? It means they can run around shoving their personal beliefs down everyone's throat while being spared the eternal Hell that we are all going to because we aren't conservative evangelicals.