Best album? Options

[ekalexm]

As much as I like MJ and TDTH, Throwing Copper is hands down their best. Not for it's commercial success but it's overall flow and content. The album tells a story from start to finish and there is no filler whatsoever.

Songs like I Alone, White Discussion and Lightning Crashes are simply epic. The dam at otter creek is the best opener they have off any album. Then you have songs like Selling The Drama, Iris and Stage, which are all pretty damn good in their own right. I Alone, WD, LC and Pillar of Davidson are all extremely well written. The basslines in TBD and Stage are paralelled only by PLOTR off Mental Jewelry. Then you have a couple of catchy as hell songs in Waitress and Shit Towne. And Did I even mention All Over You yet???
While I agree that TDTH may be a little more pleasant to the ears, it comes nowhere even fucking close to being as good as Throwing Copper. This album was a masterpiece and the only nineties album to better it would most likely be TEN from Pearl Jam, and that's saying quite a bit. TC was their best album a trillion times over.

Have to say, that's a solid argument. Maybe I'l change my mind......

[sh4rpz]

Both SS and TDTH are amazing. but it has to be MJ and TC for me.

[Badman]

Have to say, that's a solid argument. Maybe I'l change my mind......

My first instinct was pretty much to say MJ was the best album but then i actually thought it out and MJ is just what I want people to think I think is the best one (If that makes sense.) Luke made all the points I didn't extrapolate on. Lets see here... MJ kinda slows down after waterboy and becomes kinda forgetful around Take my Anthem and Peace is Now. SS kinda wanes after Freaks just a little and THDH has We walk in the Dream and Sun. Not to say that any of these songs or sections are bad but TC has no off sections.

Ugh, trying to make that argument got me fired up agin that THDH wasn't as good as it could have been. Deeper fits perfectly over Sun and We walk in the dream is a dumb song. Overcome might be less shitty to me if it was on this album instead of WWinD.

[Senghe]

I honestly couldn't choose between Throwing Copper, Secret Samadhi and The Distance To Here because I love them all for different reasons.

I never got Mental Jewellery to be perfectly honest. I usually love those raw first albums, but it was dog rough and bored me shitless after the first half or so. And from V on, it's been a bit of a disappointment after that hattrick.

[Hoodstock]

Even though I am sick of it because I've heard it so many times Throwing Copper is still by far the best album this band has ever made. The emotion and grit behind the songs of Live in early adulthood is unmatched by any of the other efforts.

I currently like listening to SS and TDTH the most.

[FishOutaWater]

MJ kinda slows down after waterboy and becomes kinda forgetful around Take my Anthem and Peace is Now.

Really? I think Good Pain, Mother Earth and Peace is Now are the strongest songs on the album. Good Pain is so profound and the music structure perfectly parallels the message of the lyrics. The "he" at the beginning of the song in "he said..." is Krishnamurti. Ed read his works. Then Ed says "Don't you now I, I will never be the same again... no more good pain, no more." It's like an epiphany. Then Ed yells "HEY!" and the music opens up and the drums start firing. It is absulutely brilliant. Every time I hear that song, I myself feel like I have just realized awakening.

Mother Earth is so passionate and profound. When he sings "Talk to me, talk to me now... Hey man you're all that I've got." - I freakin love that. Years ago, someone named Heather won the cover contest on this very message board with a cover of that song and I still have it on my iPod. It was beautiful.

The 10,000 Years (Peace is Now). Maybe my favorite song on the album. It is as relevant today as it was 15 years ago and as relevant as it was a century ago. Poets and preachers and politicians have all had their way. 10,000 years of ego-based, ignorant thinking. Looking forward to tomorrow and back to yesterday. Ed is singing that you are the world. That the President's sins are your sins. Selfishness and seperation (products of our ignorance and the work of the ego mind) led the singer to believe that the world is not his problem. But he IS the world. Peace is now - i.e. peace is in the present, the now. This really is the fundamental teaching of Buddhism, Vedanta, Hinduism, Taoism, zen, etc.

The album is so rich with philosophy and enlightenment, metaphor and a call to action. I really am inspired by it. If anyone thinks that they don't "get it", they should really find "You Are The World" by Krishnamurti on the internet, print it off and read it.

I definitely agree with Throwing Copper as a close second in my mind. Again, I like the depth there. I especially like Selling the Drama and Top as two songs that present a full-on attack of hypocrits that hold themselves up a spiritual leaders.

In my opinion, Live made their first turn of a corner after Throwing Copper. MJ and TC both seem like a plea for the ignorant to open up and awaken to truth and vehemently condemn the ego-based authority structure. Lots of angst. I think every album after those two was a new reinvention of Live, a seperate turn of a corner. SS was an artistic reaction to the success of TC. TDTH was realization of the search and, sadly, and end to the angst. V was an experiement. BoP was an attenpt to make a popular pop album. Maybe SFBM was too. SFBM was also a personal, happy album that was barely released in the U.S. I personally really like SFBM and I listen to it more often than the others right now. But I think the truth is that according to the general public, although it was not necessarily the "high water mark" of their music, TDTH was the last album they created before the water got drained out of the tub. V and everything thereafter have been largely irrelevant in the world of music. Bummer.

[Wambangalang]

i really wish ed would revisit the waters of krishnamurti and find that urgency in his lyrics again. That plea for mankind to discover the truth behind its suffering has obviously fallen on deaf ears, you only have to look at the world now to see that. Is that not enough to inspire an artist like ed to try again?

btw, i also suggest beyond violence by krishnamurti as a good starting point. you can get all of his texts free here: http://jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/

if you're still reading that means you probably didnt click on the link, so here it is again: http://jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/

















































































and once more: http://jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/

[Badman]

Mother Earth is so passionate and profound. When he sings "Talk to me, talk to me now... Hey man you're all that I've got." - I freakin love that.

The album is so rich with philosophy and enlightenment, metaphor and a call to action. I really am inspired by it. If anyone thinks that they don't "get it", they should really find "You Are The World" by Krishnamurti on the internet, print it off and read it.

I meant to put that it picks up at Good pain and I love Mother Earth. Those songs in the middle slow it down and You are the world is kinda forgettable comparatively. Good lyrics, real good though.

I did buy the 4 university readings from Krishnamurti and after reading it thought it was a lot of bunk. Some of the things about fear were all right but so many times I found myself looking at Krishnamurti for what he was; A jerk and a preacher. The way he responds to the people appears rude to me. He can NEVER acknowledge someone made a good point. Who else thought he was a jerk?

[turkish101]

I meant to put that it picks up at Good pain and I love Mother Earth. Those songs in the middle slow it down and You are the world is kinda forgettable comparatively. Good lyrics, real good though.

I did buy the 4 university readings from Krishnamurti and after reading it thought it was a lot of bunk. Some of the things about fear were all right but so many times I found myself looking at Krishnamurti for what he was; A jerk and a preacher. The way he responds to the people appears rude to me. He can NEVER acknowledge someone made a good point. Who else thought he was a jerk?

He does seem that way in the transcripts, but then I listened/watched some audio/video clips. He's not as harsh as it appears in text.

As for the raw nature of MJ, it's just not my cup of tea, I guess. TC was a little rough too, but it was a better medium between roughness and finesse.

MJ might have some good lyrics, but they're also pretty preachy, in my opinion at least. Still, like their more recent stuff, there's some beautiful lines that shine through.

Someone said TDTH lost a lot of the angst - and while that's true, I think what makes it so special is that it's not completely idealistic (like BoP and SFBM), but Ed still shows a lot of the doubt, confusion, and anxiety of his earlier days - particularly in songs like The Distance, Meltdown, among others.

As for the music, what draws me to TDTH is simple: the most beautiful melodies the band has created.

[WaiterAtCliftons]

I always claimed TC to be Live's best album. But as I get older TDTH has really taken the #1 spot. The album is the most complete work of art the band has. The lyrics can be read like a book, and the music is Live's best work on any album. Ed still had all the angst in the lyrics as in previous albums, just not with as much vocal power behind those words (with the exception of Voodoo Lady), more of just singing those lyrics.

[LiveRoCkS77]

I always claimed TC to be Live's best album. But as I get older TDTH has really taken the #1 spot. The album is the most complete work of art the band has. The lyrics can be read like a book, and the music is Live's best work on any album. Ed still had all the angst in the lyrics as in previous albums, just not with as much vocal power behind those words (with the exception of Voodoo Lady), more of just singing those lyrics.

I disagree. From a technical standpoint, TC is their best album musically. Tc also reads as more of a complete story than TDTH does but that's just my opinion. But yeah, lyrically and musically, i think TC is miles and miles beyond TDTH. MJ is the only album that comes close lyrically but as for complete musicianship? TC all the way and nothing else comes anywhere even close.

[Hoodstock]

I disagree. From a technical standpoint, TC is their best album musically. Tc also reads as more of a complete story than TDTH does but that's just my opinion. But yeah, lyrically and musically, i think TC is miles and miles beyond TDTH. MJ is the only album that comes close lyrically but as for complete musicianship? TC all the way and nothing else comes anywhere even close.

To me it's the smaller songs people don't talk about like Waitress and Shit Towne which brought the album together and portrayed their perspective on life at the time. Even though they weren't singles they are classics.

TDTH lacks that emotion and that story telling aspect. That's what made TC such a great album.

[Pokey]

and is exactly what they're missing now .. those songs that tell stories that isn't "baby i love you so much"

[turkish101]

and is exactly what they're missing now .. those songs that tell stories that isn't "baby i love you so much"

Word. We need more name dropping, like Jimmy Buffet, Starbucks, Pizza Hut, Bono, Elton John, Diesel Jeans, etc.

[Kev250R]

For me Mental Jewlery is my sentimental favorite, it was one of the first CD's I bought back when I was in high school (in about '94) and I practically wore it out. I even dubbed a copy of it to tape and played it in my Walkman a lot (crap, I feel old now). Growing-up it was one of the only CD's my Dad could tolerate though I agree it is a bit preachy.

As far as the newer stuff goes They Stood Up For Love, Freaks, Run To The Water, Run Away, Heaven, Lakini's Juice are the ones which come to mind, Freaks and Deep Enough are on my MP3-playing cell phone. Odd songs but they definitely give you something to think about.

--Kevin