If Live Returned To Their Roots for the Next Album..., ...What "Roots" Should They Return To? Options

[slainte]

Hmmm...

I want ROCK with MEANING, I guess.

Lyrics that seem to be one thing on the surface but are much more in layers of depth.

I want the music to make me FEEL and then later PONDER, too.

I don't want LiVE to remake any of their previous albums, but I hope the next one is not overly sentimental pop.

Does that make sense to anyone other than me?

lol

It makes complete and total sense to me....The songs off TC that hit me in the gut in the moment but leave me wondering so much later include I Alone, TBD, Pillar of Davidson, TDAOC....and virtually all of TDTH....*sigh* the good ol days rock, ya know before the sappy over the top sentimentality tunes now that make me gag...

This post has been edited by slainte: May 8 2008, 10:48 am

[Nedra]

It makes complete and total sense to me....The songs off TC that hit me in the gut in the moment but leave me wondering so much later include I Alone, TBD, Pillar of Davidson, TDAOC....and virtually all of TDTH....*sigh* the good ol days rock, ya know before the sappy over the top sentimentality tunes now that make me gag...

*laughs*

Yeah...

simple-but-intense political and spiritual commentary? OK!

rockin', diverse, socially conscious? OK!

mysterious, dark, cryptive rock? OK!

Just...

SPEAK to me! My heart, my head, my soul... whatever.

"Talk to me, talk to me NOW!"

[slainte]

Like minds....must be that fresh Oregon air along with the tree hugging dirt worshipers!

[Nedra]

Ok, we'll go with that instead of old hippie mentality and all that greeeeen stuff here in Oregon.

[Wambangalang]

I'd rather think of "returning to their roots" as meaning a return to their approach to writing music than a return to a particular sound. The albums listed in this poll are so great because they were so different sonically, not because one returned to the sound of the one before it. But im more interested in the mentality that crafted the lyrics in those earlier albums as oppsed to now.

I know its been said to death, but at least based on the interviews he gives these days, ed seems comfortable with it all. The guy has a good life, nice house, wife, kids etc. I think just recently he said something along the lines of 'you cant change the world but you can work on yourself' , which is a far cry from the guy who was once hell bent on saving the world. It does sound stupidly ambitious, but thats the kind of mentality that produces inspired work, and to want to change the world you have to be angry about the state of the world. You dont have to be political to be angry about the wars that are still raging in this day and age, the mass poverty around the world, the starvation, the misery, the cyclone that killed 80,000 poor people in burma the other day. Even if your kids are provided for and live in a decent neighbourhood there is a shit world out there for them to one day inherit.

The music doesnt have to be angry at all, but its from that realisation about the state of the world that ed set about to change it (Its in their mission statement that someone posted a short while ago). Mental Jewlrey didnt work. The world is still shit. and surely thats gotta motivate you, especially as an artist, to passionately do something about it. Again. (take that as a hint as to my vote)

There is nothing wrong with wanting to touch people with uplifting melodies about love and what can be achieved when you devote yourself to truth. Its all there in krishnamurti's literature. Its from his writings that the artist ed was born, and it is only natural that the progression of live's work has resulted in what we have now; a live that is past the developmental stage of how to change the world, and is now at a point where it is the very result of that action. Like in 2001 a space oddessy. They begin as apes, gathering and pounding bones. Then they transform into intelligent beings who traverse the galexy with tremendous technological capability. And finally, the evolution into a supreme being, the baby in the womb, floating through space.

Live is the baby floating through space. Unfortunaltey, they have left the rest of us behind. Some of us are still apes pounding each other with bones. For live to connect, they need to start at the beginning and try again to take us with them. Ed is a great artist and i cant see that someone who wrote all that brilliant material a lifetime ago somehow hasnt got it in him to reach that depth again.

im stoned by the way

[slainte]

Ok, we'll go with that instead of old hippie mentality and all that greeeeen stuff here in Oregon.

Ohhhhhh.....yeah.........organic farming at its best!!!!! One of Oregon's cash crops!!!

[Pokey]

I'd rather think of "returning to their roots" as meaning a return to their approach to writing music than a return to a particular sound. The albums listed in this poll are so great because they were so different sonically, not because one returned to the sound of the one before it. But im more interested in the mentality that crafted the lyrics in those earlier albums as oppsed to now.

I know its been said to death, but at least based on the interviews he gives these days, ed seems comfortable with it all. The guy has a good life, nice house, wife, kids etc. I think just recently he said something along the lines of 'you cant change the world but you can work on yourself' , which is a far cry from the guy who was once hell bent on saving the world. It does sound stupidly ambitious, but thats the kind of mentality that produces inspired work, and to want to change the world you have to be angry about the state of the world. You dont have to be political to be angry about the wars that are still raging in this day and age, the mass poverty around the world, the starvation, the misery, the cyclone that killed 80,000 poor people in burma the other day. Even if your kids are provided for and live in a decent neighbourhood there is a shit world out there for them to one day inherit.

The music doesnt have to be angry at all, but its from that realisation about the state of the world that ed set about to change it (Its in their mission statement that someone posted a short while ago). Mental Jewlrey didnt work. The world is still shit. and surely thats gotta motivate you, especially as an artist, to passionately do something about it. Again. (take that as a hint as to my vote)

There is nothing wrong with wanting to touch people with uplifting melodies about love and what can be achieved when you devote yourself to truth. Its all there in krishnamurti's literature. Its from his writings that the artist ed was born, and it is only natural that the progression of live's work has resulted in what we have now; a live that is past the developmental stage of how to change the world, and is now at a point where it is the very result of that action. Like in 2001 a space oddessy. They begin as apes, gathering and pounding bones. Then they transform into intelligent beings who traverse the galexy with tremendous technological capability. And finally, the evolution into a supreme being, the baby in the womb, floating through space.

Live is the baby floating through space. Unfortunaltey, they have left the rest of us behind. Some of us are still apes pounding each other with bones. For live to connect, they need to start at the beginning and try again to take us with them. Ed is a great artist and i cant see that someone who wrote all that brilliant material a lifetime ago somehow hasnt got it in him to reach that depth again.

im stoned by the way

I have to agree with this, a return to roots being a return to how they originally wrote those albums.

We all remember BOP right? Remember before it was released, that was a "back to basics/where it all began" for Live, and then even SFBM was slightly touted as being "The closest album to Mental Jewelry" ... both ended up being complete nonsense as even if on BOP they were gunning for a return to the TC sound and on SFBM they were going for a return to MJ (I still don't see how this is even so) they still failed to recreate one major element of those albums - the entire band wrote them.
And of course the 2 songs that are probably given the most praise post V are Like I Do and Lighthouse, and of course they were both written by more than just Ed on his own. (note: I'm aware that both of these songs even cop a lot of flak around here).

So yeah, I want to see what Live can do with a return to the original writing process. I don't care if it's happy-go-lucky positivity like TDTH, I don't care if it's dark and mysterious like SS or if it's Angsty like TC or political like MJ (ok so political would still probably annoy me). but lets, as they say "get the old band back together".

I'm not stoned, but I soon will be.

This post has been edited by Pokey: May 9 2008, 11:23 am

[PillarOfDavidson]

What needs to happen is very simple: they need to just get together and jam. Ed doesn't need to try and "say something". Chad doesn't need to try and come up with the "perfect" guitar licks. Pat doesn't need to find the "right" bass notes. Gracey doesn't need to try and play the patent tempo. They just need to jam. Of course, in order to do that they need to be in the same general vicinity of each other. Maybe they all go to Oregon, or LA, or Pennsylvania, or Miami... who knows. Maybe they need to go to New Zealand. Or Fiji. Just go somewhere you can be inspired at and just jam.

[Wambangalang]

agreed. but they not only need to be a band outside the studio, they also need to be a band inside the studio. Im no music tech, but this nonsense of each person seperately laying down their part and then compiling it later severly subtracts from the dynamic of the production.

[+Ed+]

agreed. but they not only need to be a band outside the studio, they also need to be a band inside the studio. Im no music tech, but this nonsense of each person seperately laying down their part and then compiling it later severly subtracts from the dynamic of the production.

Jamming during the recording is something that definitely works, however for a very limited number of bands. Of course each band records numerous layers and several versions of each music piece to later choose the best and etc etc yanno.

[crazy1]

im stoned by the way

I figured you were!!!!

[Alex]

I'd rather think of "returning to their roots" as meaning a return to their approach to writing music than a return to a particular sound. The albums listed in this poll are so great because they were so different sonically, not because one returned to the sound of the one before it. But im more interested in the mentality that crafted the lyrics in those earlier albums as oppsed to now.

I know its been said to death, but at least based on the interviews he gives these days, ed seems comfortable with it all. The guy has a good life, nice house, wife, kids etc. I think just recently he said something along the lines of 'you cant change the world but you can work on yourself' , which is a far cry from the guy who was once hell bent on saving the world. It does sound stupidly ambitious, but thats the kind of mentality that produces inspired work, and to want to change the world you have to be angry about the state of the world. You dont have to be political to be angry about the wars that are still raging in this day and age, the mass poverty around the world, the starvation, the misery, the cyclone that killed 80,000 poor people in burma the other day. Even if your kids are provided for and live in a decent neighbourhood there is a shit world out there for them to one day inherit.

The music doesnt have to be angry at all, but its from that realisation about the state of the world that ed set about to change it (Its in their mission statement that someone posted a short while ago). Mental Jewlrey didnt work. The world is still shit. and surely thats gotta motivate you, especially as an artist, to passionately do something about it. Again. (take that as a hint as to my vote)

There is nothing wrong with wanting to touch people with uplifting melodies about love and what can be achieved when you devote yourself to truth. Its all there in krishnamurti's literature. Its from his writings that the artist ed was born, and it is only natural that the progression of live's work has resulted in what we have now; a live that is past the developmental stage of how to change the world, and is now at a point where it is the very result of that action. Like in 2001 a space oddessy. They begin as apes, gathering and pounding bones. Then they transform into intelligent beings who traverse the galexy with tremendous technological capability. And finally, the evolution into a supreme being, the baby in the womb, floating through space.

Live is the baby floating through space. Unfortunaltey, they have left the rest of us behind. Some of us are still apes pounding each other with bones. For live to connect, they need to start at the beginning and try again to take us with them. Ed is a great artist and i cant see that someone who wrote all that brilliant material a lifetime ago somehow hasnt got it in him to reach that depth again.

im stoned by the way

I agree with what I read of your post... I stopped about half way through

I'm not stoned, but I soon will be.

As will I.

agreed. but they not only need to be a band outside the studio, they also need to be a band inside the studio. Im no music tech, but this nonsense of each person seperately laying down their part and then compiling it later severly subtracts from the dynamic of the production.

It's not nonsense at all... It's a technique that orginated in the 60's with The Beatles and Beach Boys, and I can guarantee that most albums since then will be (at least in part) recorded in this way.. and a lot will be completely multi-tracked. And it's not like Live used to record all together at once..

[Distance to Me]

I don't necessarily want the band to return to any specific album. I'd much rather see some stuff they've never done mixed with some stuff that worked well in the past.

I'd like to see longer songs (with at least one that gets in the 7-9 minute mark, but I don't think they'd do something much longer than that very well), mixed with some shorter, 2 minute songs that either kick ass (think Heropsychodreamer) or are experimental and fun (think Waitress).

I think Tricky needs to rap on a song on the new album, and there needs some more background vocals similar to the vocals at the end of Mystery (first song that came to my mind), and, as much as I dislike his music, Chris Daughtry has a pretty good voice.

Ed should take some of the pressure off himself. That includes writing the music. I think everyone in the band should take part, and maybe each person should write the lyrics to a song. That may be the most important thing right there. Lyrics. Ed has proven that, even though he may be "content" with what's going on around him, he can still write some pretty good lyrics. Mystery has some pretty good lyrics other than the chorus, and if the chorus was different we'd have no idea what he's talking about. Which reminds me, maybe they should do a song without a chorus and an instrumental, and maybe another piano piece, and maybe a song that's entirely acoustic?

Finally, we need some bass and guitar. We need some stuff along the lines of Pain Lies on the Riverside and Heropsychodreamer. And I want some guitar work similar to that Gruenspan Dolphin's Cry track.

That's asking for a lot, but if Live put that together right, I think we'd have a pretty daggum good album.

This post has been edited by Distance to Me: May 18 2008, 1:10 pm

[disciple_de_+LIVE+]

Easy.

Put down the acoustic.

No falsetto.

Don't put the album's single as the first song. (The River, Heaven). You need a rocker or dramatic/show-opener-type-song to set the album's mood.

Who cares what the lyrics/sound/producer is, if they followed these three rules they would make their best album since TDTH...

[shitowne76]

You are correct about the executive producer essentially controlling the purse strings, I meant to say producer.

I wasn't specifically commenting on the mix/production of Secret Samadhi, more the content.
Secret Samadhi was a darker album then what came before and what came after. The overall tone of the album was a bit more downbeat in terms of the song content, like the band was writing about the end of the world and it wasn't a happy ending. Throwing Copper and TDTH were much more balanced in this respect.

I want to emphasize that I really like Secret Samadhi for what it is, a good album, just not a great album. However, I can't help but think of the lost oppurtunities they had with the band swelling their audience and becoming _THE_ next big band which everyone was predicting after the 1-2 punch of MJ and TC.

I remember being so psyched for SS since it had been nearly 3 years since TC and then hearing Lakini's Juice on the radio and thinking how pretentious it was with the string arrangement. Could never get into that song. Freaks is also another novelty song that they probably hoped would be a "Shit Towne" type of track, yet should have been left as a b-side when it was wisely left off TC.

I totally agree! "Secret Samadhi" was a major disappointment to me at the time. I'm surprised it's the highest rated in this vote. "Throwing Copper" is a great place to go back to (hypothetically speaking). If not, then I'd choose "Mental Jewelry".