Any new album news? Options

[+Ed+]

Eamon, don't you think it is evolution for the band? Why the hell not, I wonder!

[Badman]

I doubt that all the guys who say I HATE SFBM never felt like putting it on on the beach or smth... When Ed was saying they were releasing smth what FANS want...

Cool rant but what does smth stand for? Is it short for "something?" If it is the first sentence makes sense but the second sentence doesn't...

[Alex]

[quote name='+Ed+' date='Feb 7 2008, 4:47 am' post='35816']I have been detesting every single bash of the band on its FANSITE. It is pure bullshit. If you do not like the band - leave it to the others I guess... [quote]

I don't think there's anyone on here at the moment that isn't a fan of the band. You seem to be under the impression that to be a fan you have to worship everything Live create.
[/quote]

[quote name='+Ed+' date='Feb 7 2008, 4:47 am' post='35816']Anyway, I know that people are inclined to sound like they are brilliant analyzers sometimes. I have hardly seen it over here. And this is what makes things even worse. I do not detest criticism. I think that in its stronger forms (represented for example by Herzelied aka Pokey) it really brings a sense of a positive and constructive discussion... Other than that... "It's shit", :It makes me through up".... Uh, come on fellas.... It is 2008, eh? Not 1995, 97 or even 99. Have you ever thought that what worked in the 90s, will never work again? All the grunge and post-grunge...It just is OVER. I know some bands still make efforts. They sound great. But they are not as popular as, say, 10 years ago...[quote]

It's not a matter of popularity. What you say about the music of the 90's is certainly true for certain bands- but I don't feel that Live's music after TC was shaped so much by the 90s sound. Anyway, it's not a case of people wanting to hear rehashed TCs and SS's... it's a return of passion, energy, lyrics with a lot less kitsch value that I, and I assume other people, want.

By the way- regarding the debates on here, I see as many, or more useless comments coming from people who DO enjoy the recent work than people that don't. I still haven't really seen any factors to stand by the claim that some make that SFBM is as well written as say, TDTH.

[quote name='+Ed+' date='Feb 7 2008, 4:47 am' post='35816']Back to LIVE. Have you ever seen a band that made a poppy record NOT TO BECOME popular with it? Huh? Me not. [/quote]

I'm not quite sure what you're saying- but if you're stating that people can't make popular sounding records without them becoming popular, then I think you've completely got the wrong idea. Or are you implying that Live want to regain popularity so they're making poppy music?

[quote name='+Ed+' date='Feb 7 2008, 4:47 am' post='35816']I do not feel it is a strong marketing finding or smth... Why don't you let people get BUSY with THEIR BUSINESS? [quote]

Well, you claimed earlier that there're people here that aren't fans of the band. I assume you mean this because they don't enjoy Lives later work. I however think that questioning the material that you're not as fond of is far better than blindly following a band and convincing yourself that it's good.

[quote name='+Ed+' date='Feb 7 2008, 4:47 am' post='35816']It is pretty much disappointing that some fans prefer not to progress with the band, and, moreover, NOT FEEL IT. If you are depressed or want to let your anger out - hit TC or SS - noone is against it! I doubt that all the guys who say I HATE SFBM never felt like putting it on on the beach or smth... When Ed was saying they were releasing smth what FANS want... He meant it for the fans who FEEL him I guess. And I proudly consider myself one of those.[quote]

Why do you take it personally that people that don't enjoy Lives recent output? Why is it dissapointing that people aren't 'progressing' with the band?

For a start, I really wouldn't call albums like BOP and SFBM progress. In terms of songwriting, they don't really include anything new. There are new ideas arrangement wise, but I personally wouldn't call these progression at all. The lyrics make me want to cringe- and though I'm no literacy expert I would think that objectively the lyrics on SFBM are not well written. They're very run of the mill, contain many a cliche etc. The production is more modern but the mixes don't contain anything interesting- and I certainly wouldn't call modern production a progression.

A lot of people who argue for the new work use the whole 'anger' thing- saying 'if you want something angry go listen to SS, leave us people who enjoy the new material alone'. To start with, I have never ever felt the need to put SFBM on, and after the first month of listening to BOP, I never wanted to listen to that again either. I enjoy a huge variety of music, and if I was listening to something at the beach, I might go for some Stevie Wonder, Sublime, maybe Jeff Buckley- certainly not SFBM. It wouldn't even come in to the equation.

I honestly don't want anything 'angry' from Live. They're obviously not in the same state emotionally and generally in their lives as they were 10, 15 years ago, and there's no point in forcing anger. I want passion. Emotion that doesn't come in the form of 'la la las' and 'buddha sitting under his tree'. Lyrics that don't make me reach for the power button. Songs that aren't just pop standards, with progressions that aren't cheesy and overused, and individual parts that are well written. A return to instrumentation that goes beyond the parts they play live, and not just shoving in a poorly written string arrangement. A return to human error in their recordings; no more auto-tune, less tightening and less 'Jim Wirt' production. If their next album was an acoustic album that employed just some of the things I've written here I would like it a whole bunch more than SFBM.

Emotion doesn't mean anger. And it doesn't mean blatant 'nothing can go wrong' happiness. Ed has had kids. Great. He obviously wants to write about them, which would be fine, if it weren't delivered in the style that he has shown since BOP. There're far more poignant things he could write about involving his children.

Deliver an album that is ranging in emotion and has passion and I'll give Live another go. Until then I'll stick to listening to their early albums.

[quote name='+Ed+' date='Feb 7 2008, 4:47 am' post='35816']Open your eyes dammit. Open your souls. [/quote]

A grossly unfair comment, considering what you're about to say...

[quote name='+Ed+' date='Feb 7 2008, 4:47 am' post='35816']Whatever the next album brings, there is still a majority of fans who will accept it and drool over it whether it even be punk or techno. [quote]

Yes. The people that blindly follow a band and convince themselves that they like the material. (Not saying that everyone who likes SFBM just convinces themselves, there are a number who genuinely like it). But I don't think having an open mind has anything to do with the reaction that a lot of people have had to the last two albums.

(Btw, how can there 'be a majority of fans who will accept it and drool over it'... I'm under the impression that these fans are in the minority...)

[quote name='+Ed+' date='Feb 7 2008, 4:47 am' post='35816']If they are doing it and they feel like doing it (meaning LIVE) - LET THEM FUCKING DO IT and if you do not enjoy it - than it is not that important to get into a virtual fight aboard with bashing the new material.[/quote]

To be fair, you seem to be the one fighting back. You said earlier that intelligent discussion about it is good.. and it is. I don't think that people who don't like the new material shouldn't be able to relay their opinions.

Anyway, you say Live feel like doing it.. I strongly question if their hearts are in it anymore. I don't see, as a musician, how playing SFBM material would be gratifying. I'd rather they give the band up than keep making music as empty as this. (Unless they do genuinely enjoy doing it..)

[quote name='+Ed+' date='Feb 7 2008, 4:47 am' post='35816']Anyway I do not know what I posted it for... Maybe I respect DanGum so much for so long that I decided to let it all out.. Dunno. I just know I will enjoy the new album and I can not wait for it.
[/quote]

So right now, even though you have no idea what the new album will entail, you've decided that you're going to like it. I think you need to practice what you preach and have an open mind.

This post has been edited by Alex: Feb 6 2008, 3:51 pm

[brandedwendy]

another for-against discussion... just what this board seems to need these days....

no offense to alex or dmitri..... why dont you just agree to disagree?

What is wrong with wanting to hear new tracks first and then decide to buy the album? and what is wrong with beforehand hoping the new album will be good?

cause for some reason I seem to be missing the whole point of these discussions.......

[SJN1279]

another for-against discussion... just what this board seems to need these days....

no offense to alex or dmitri..... why dont you just agree to disagree?

What is wrong with wanting to hear new tracks first and then decide to buy the album? and what is wrong with beforehand hoping the new album will be good?

cause for some reason I seem to be missing the whole point of these discussions.......

Amen sister!

[Hoodstock]

Welcome to the forum, BlackMountain. Though I share your ability to appreciate every album, I wouldn't be too pleased with another BoP/SFBM sounding album. I'd probably still buy it, listen to it and love it in its own way, but I really want some rock from guys, this time.

I've been sayin that even before SFBM (although I liked some of the album). I want Live to bring an album with some anger and edge. One of the great things about TC and SS is that it had songs about life like the dam at otter creek, waitress, stage, i alone, selling the drama, lakini's juice, turn my head, all over you, shit towne. They need to get away from this spiritual bullshit and get back to their roots and what made Live great in the first place.

It time to cut the fluff and start rocking again!

[+Ed+]

Yo Alex. Here I come. At last I see a great post at FANSOL.


I don't think there's anyone on here at the moment that isn't a fan of the band. You seem to be under the impression that to be a fan you have to worship everything Live create.
No, Alex. Completely wrong. I see the posts of the fake fans every now and then. I consider those people who were fans once, but after BoP, V or SFBM started simply bashing the band, without visiting concerts or listening even to the best works. And sorry. Your impression is wrong. It is only me that is out of that kind of fans. I unfortunately love all they make…

It's not a matter of popularity. What you say about the music of the 90's is certainly true for certain bands- but I don't feel that Live's music after TC was shaped so much by the 90s sound. Anyway, it's not a case of people wanting to hear rehashed TCs and SS's... it's a return of passion, energy, lyrics with a lot less kitsch value that I, and I assume other people, want.
Yea, but don’t you think that the nowadays songs are another form of passion. If we come to discussing the records again…Hmm..Does Sofia or WDWGFH or HOME lack passion? I do not think so. It is a different level of passion. And a higher level of maturity as I feel.

By the way- regarding the debates on here, I see as many, or more useless comments coming from people who DO enjoy the recent work than people that don't. I still haven't really seen any factors to stand by the claim that some make that SFBM is as well written as say, TDTH.
Yea unfortunately I see that too. It all depends on age and the level of .. dunno how to call it… Development, evolution… Whatever you call it.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying- but if you're stating that people can't make popular sounding records without them becoming popular, then I think you've completely got the wrong idea. Or are you implying that Live want to regain popularity so they're making poppy music?
I honestly do not think the guys are interested in any form of mass appeal (did I say it right? Or shall it be “appealing to the masses”?),similar to the one they had in 90s. I just somehow do not think so.

Well, you claimed earlier that there're people here that aren't fans of the band. I assume you mean this because they don't enjoy Lives later work. I however think that questioning the material that you're not as fond of is far better than blindly following a band and convincing yourself that it's good.
Absolutely + above I have mentioned some of the aspects.

Why do you take it personally that people that don't enjoy Lives recent output? Why is it dissapointing that people aren't 'progressing' with the band?

For a start, I really wouldn't call albums like BOP and SFBM progress. In terms of songwriting, they don't really include anything new. There are new ideas arrangement wise, but I personally wouldn't call these progression at all. The lyrics make me want to cringe- and though I'm no literacy expert I would think that objectively the lyrics on SFBM are not well written. They're very run of the mill, contain many a cliche etc. The production is more modern but the mixes don't contain anything interesting- and I certainly wouldn't call modern production a progression.

A lot of people who argue for the new work use the whole 'anger' thing- saying 'if you want something angry go listen to SS, leave us people who enjoy the new material alone'. To start with, I have never ever felt the need to put SFBM on, and after the first month of listening to BOP, I never wanted to listen to that again either. I enjoy a huge variety of music, and if I was listening to something at the beach, I might go for some Stevie Wonder, Sublime, maybe Jeff Buckley- certainly not SFBM. It wouldn't even come in to the equation.

I honestly don't want anything 'angry' from Live. They're obviously not in the same state emotionally and generally in their lives as they were 10, 15 years ago, and there's no point in forcing anger. I want passion. Emotion that doesn't come in the form of 'la la las' and 'buddha sitting under his tree'. Lyrics that don't make me reach for the power button. Songs that aren't just pop standards, with progressions that aren't cheesy and overused, and individual parts that are well written. A return to instrumentation that goes beyond the parts they play live, and not just shoving in a poorly written string arrangement. A return to human error in their recordings; no more auto-tune, less tightening and less 'Jim Wirt' production. If their next album was an acoustic album that employed just some of the things I've written here I would like it a whole bunch more than SFBM.

Emotion doesn't mean anger. And it doesn't mean blatant 'nothing can go wrong' happiness. Ed has had kids. Great. He obviously wants to write about them, which would be fine, if it weren't delivered in the style that he has shown since BOP. There're far more poignant things he could write about involving his children.

Deliver an album that is ranging in emotion and has passion and I'll give Live another go. Until then I'll stick to listening to their early albums.
I once again say that it is impossible to call yourself a “fan” if you say that the band is making shit. That is it. I mean, if the author says that it is only his state of mind for now that affects his writing, you know, and after that people do not try to get into this state of mind (which from my HO is MUCH more interesting then blindly following everything) instead of which they say F words concerning what their “favorite” band is now doing.

Yes. The people that blindly follow a band and convince themselves that they like the material. (Not saying that everyone who likes SFBM just convinces themselves, there are a number who genuinely like it). But I don't think having an open mind has anything to do with the reaction that a lot of people have had to the last two albums.

(Btw, how can there 'be a majority of fans who will accept it and drool over it'... I'm under the impression that these fans are in the minority...)

I think I explained it above, yet again. Above that, we do not have any official stats, right?

To be fair, you seem to be the one fighting back. You said earlier that intelligent discussion about it is good.. and it is. I don't think that people who don't like the new material shouldn't be able to relay their opinions.
Absolutely. More than that, on my board people are always freer to express their feelings and it mostly for sure concerns the latest works of LIVE. Anyway, I hardly ever see the intelligent discussion here… Sad to say… And moreover, fighting back is not my style at all. Relaying is one thing. Bashing and covering with dirt is a completely different thing, see?

Anyway, you say Live feel like doing it.. I strongly question if their hearts are in it anymore. I don't see, as a musician, how playing SFBM material would be gratifying. I'd rather they give the band up than keep making music as empty as this. (Unless they do genuinely enjoy doing it..)
Damn, why do you consider it empty? What if THEY do not?

So right now, even though you have no idea what the new album will entail, you've decided that you're going to like it. I think you need to practice what you preach and have an open mind.
I have not decided anything, you know. LIVE albums are just something I always wait for. And until now they have not left me sad with my expectations unfulfilled. And it has been 10 years, you know.

This post has been edited by +Ed+: Feb 7 2008, 4:30 am

[Pokey]

Eamon, don't you think it is evolution for the band? Why the hell not, I wonder!

Absolutely not, it's devolution. Its why I call it change rather than evolving. I think what they're making now is on par with what 20yr old muso's really should/could be making and what they were making when they were 20-22yrs old should be what is being made now. The music was much more complex and interesting then (ok so it's not like the most complex music in the world, but compared to now). The simplestic pop of now compared to what they made with songs like TBD, TDAOC and even things like Unsheathed is just non comparable. The River with it's ridiculously childish lyrics like "ooo baby let my lovin' ease your pain" is complete devolution compared to those songs.

[LiveRoCkS77]

[b]

[b]

I'm not quite sure what you're saying- but if you're stating that people can't make popular sounding records without them becoming popular, then I think you've completely got the wrong idea. Or are you implying that Live want to regain popularity so they're making poppy music?

[b]

A grossly unfair comment, considering what you're about to say...

[b]

To be fair, you seem to be the one fighting back. You said earlier that intelligent discussion about it is good.. and it is. I don't think that people who don't like the new material shouldn't be able to relay their opinions.

Anyway, you say Live feel like doing it.. I strongly question if their hearts are in it anymore. I don't see, as a musician, how playing SFBM material would be gratifying. I'd rather they give the band up than keep making music as empty as this. (Unless they do genuinely enjoy doing it..)

[b]

So right now, even though you have no idea what the new album will entail, you've decided that you're going to like it. I think you need to practice what you preach and have an open mind.

Although I think Alex was a bit excessive in the length he went to, he did it pretty fucking well I must say. For once, I also agree with just about every single thing he said in his post regarding Live.

Agree to disagree? Fuck that!! Alex is right and backed it up by bringing this guys blatant self contradictions out into the open in order to prove his point.

Whoever Ed is, you just got owned to the max.

[LiveRoCkS77]

Ed, come on, are serious?

Saying they're not interested in any form of mass appeal? Why the hell did they make the effort to APPEAL to the pop masses by making music geared to a specific audience when they realized their music wasn't APPEALING to rock fans anymore?

They deliberately made music to target an entirely different audience. It speaks for itself, therefor there is no argument about it. It is cut and dry.

Also, saying anybody who thinks Live's recent music is shit isn't a real fan? That's seriously one of the most assinine comments I've ever heard made. People voicing objective comments and opinions regarding Live's recent work has nothing to do with being a "fan"

It has to do with being honest with themselves regarding music that is simply, well...no good? I can say with relative confidence that this bands last three efforts have sucked ass lyrically, plain and simple. Filled with cliches and utter simplicity that is pretty much embarassing to listen to. I can quote 100 different lyrics that are so utterly lame, you could easily mistake a ten year old to have written them. There are no bridges in the new music, taking away what made Live LIVE pretty much, their anthemic sound. To be quite honest, as sad as it is, most of their new music is at most 3 chords on guitar and the bass non existent. The music is flat, boring, uncreative and lyrically inept.

NOW, does that mean I'm not a fan of the band as you say? No, it means I'm not a fan of their new music. No need to make it any more complicated then that. I don't roll my eyes and refuse to listen when they play it in concert. I just don't like it, plain and simple. I am just as much of fan as I was when TC was at the height of its popularity pretty much.

Your comparison to an author per say was just as assininine. Just because I think a guy wrote two or three shitty books, I don't like him? When i happen to enjoy the other 50 he has written? Quit trying to justify your own points of view with your assininine analogies. Any intelligent person can dissect them faster than you can say your own name. Not to mention that you're insulting the intelligence of people who are most likely quite a bit smarter than you are.

[LiveRoCkS77]

On ArtistDirect.com, V and Songs from Black Mountain are higher rated than TDTH, BOP, with Secret Samahdi being the lowest rated of the band's catalogue. An album's quality is always subjective.

Again, wtf kind of comment is that? An albums quality is NOT subjective. Anybody who rates SFBM or V ahead of TDTH is just a complete idiot, plain and simple.

Maybe it's not all cut and dry, but an album that is musically and lyrically well written like TDTH is automatically a decent album, despite what ANYBODY thinks to the contrary. That goes for any album by any artist. Sure people can have differering opinions, but that doesn't make a particular subject subjective in nature. Sometimes it's as simple as one side being right, the other being wrong.

For example, you can't take an album like SFBM and give it a good rating on a musical scale. My buddy took basically every single tune and was able to play the chord progression from every single song on his electric within seconds. The music badly written, anybody not realizing that just being either a fool or illiterate. The music tells no story, is incohesive at times, littered with cliches and is just plain embarassing to educated ears. I means, what's next? "Take my hand, don't leave me alone, don't hurt me again!" Go listen Avril Lavigne if you want that trailer park, 12 year old girl dreamy, novice shit.

Me? I want some more thought and effort put into it. I want to hear lines again like 'We could have been born helpless children beggin' for our next meal, I could be a Voodoo lady just a classy hooker playin the field!" That's the shit! Truth and poetry all unravelled through one brilliant fucking line.

How about any line from They Stood Up for Love?

naked lovers feel the blood beneath their veins
electric nerves communicate
with tiny explosions through our brains
who is this energy that never left or came?
give rise to passion the only glory
of this human story

I give my heart and soul to the one

we spend all of our lives goin' out of our minds
looking back to our birth, forward to our demise
even scientists say, everything is just light
not created, destroyed but eternally bright
masters in everytime lord in everyplace
those who stood up for love down in spite of the hate
in spite of the hate

who put the flower in the barrel of that gun?
who lit the candle that started the fire,
burnt down the fortress, the throne?
who could house all the refugees in a single shack
or a lowly bungalow?
who lives in a different dimension, free from the
struggles we know?

I give my heart and soul to the one

we spend all of our lives goin' out of our minds
looking back to our birth, forward to our demise
even scientists say, everything is just light
not created, destroyed but eternally bright
masters in everytime lord in everyplace
those who stood up for love down in spite of the hate
we spend all of our lives goin' out of our minds
they live in the light

we made it to the moon
but we can't make it home
waitin' on a rescue that never comes
made it to the moon
but we can't make it home
maybe home is where the heart is given up
to the one
to the one

we spend all of our lives goin' out of our minds
lookin' back to our birth, forward to our demise
we spend all of our lives goin' out of our minds
they live, they

they stood up for love
stood up for love
stood up for love
they stood up for love
stood up for love
stood up for love

we spend all of our lives goin' out of our minds
masters in everytime
we spend all of our lives goin' out of our minds
stood up for love


Nothing they've written in the past ten years comes anywhere close to rivalling this or anything from TDTH for that matter. Some people thing bullshit pop music is well written. Doesn't make it subjective, it makes those people wrong and probably most reasonable to assume, uneducated.

[SinfulEyes]

Hey well said LiveRocks.

[SJN1279]

Am I the only person who skips over long-winded posts that compare albums that most of us already own?

[Existentialist]

You're not the only one, because there are lots of other idiot fans. Maybe you should just post exclusively at SOY with the rest of them? Luke's post hit it on the head big time.

This post has been edited by Existentialist: Feb 7 2008, 9:08 pm

[LiveRoCkS77]

You're not the only one, because there are lots of other idiot fans. Maybe you should just post exclusively at SOY with the rest of them? Luke's post hit it on the head big time.

Hahaha, love the implication there.

Doesn't matter anyhow, for the diehard fans will love whatever LIVE does like brain dead little zombies. Ed could be blowing Richard Simmons on the next album cover and these guys would still like it.