What do you believe? Options

[slainte]

^^^^sorry that you are going through a hard time and best of luck in all you do. when you do have a family~i think you are on the right track as in presenting all avenues of spirituality.

[Badman]

It's not really a hard time, more like a bad habit.

[slainte]

damn....they are the worst....keep coming back to bite you in the ass. good luck!

[Grandpa Grizz]

This song from Rush's new album Snakes and Arrows says it better than i ever could.

Faithless

I've got my own moral compass to steer by
A guiding star beats a spirit in the sky
And all the preaching voices -
Empty vessels ring so loud
As they move among the crowd
Fools and thieves are well disguised
In the temple and market place

Like a stone in the river
Against the floods of spring
I will quietly resist

Like the willows in the wind
Or the cliffs along the ocean
I will quietly resist

I don't have faith in faith
I don't believe in belief
You can call me faithless
I still cling to hope
And I believe in love
And that's faith enough for me

I've got my own spirit level for balance
To tell if my choice is leaning up or down
And all the shouting voices
Try to throw me off my course
Some by sermons, some by force
Fools and thieves are dangerous
In the temple and marketplace

Like a forest bows to winter
Beneath the deep white silence
I will quietly resist

Like a flower in the desert
That only blooms at night
I will quietly resist

[gotigrz]

i believe that this world and everything natural in it is too amazingly beautiful and perfect to be here by chance. i believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. all of this i know. is this something that i was taught? sure. but, i was also taught trigonometry (sp) but, i don't know a lick of that. i read the bible and as old as it is... it all applies to our current world. i believe that God expects perfection because that's what He gives. and we are so far from perfect that not one of us would stand a chance of leaving this world and being with our Maker. that is unless we could offer a sacrafice that isn't marked by $ signs, and that isn't staind with our sins... that leaves only one option... the perfect sacrafice... Jesus Christ. He didn't have to die, but He didn't want every single person to burn in a lake of fire, so He gave everyone the option to believe in Him and avoid the heat and accept the glory and grace of God. that's what i believe.

[Badman]

Grandpa Grizz, you sure are a one dimensional character! You somehow worked Rush into this thread

Good song though, I may look into the album a little closer.

[torcatofan]

i believe that this world and everything natural in it is too amazingly beautiful and perfect to be here by chance. i believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. all of this i know. is this something that i was taught? sure. but, i was also taught trigonometry (sp) but, i don't know a lick of that. i read the bible and as old as it is... it all applies to our current world. i believe that God expects perfection because that's what He gives. and we are so far from perfect that not one of us would stand a chance of leaving this world and being with our Maker. that is unless we could offer a sacrafice that isn't marked by $ signs, and that isn't staind with our sins... that leaves only one option... the perfect sacrafice... Jesus Christ. He didn't have to die, but He didn't want every single person to burn in a lake of fire, so He gave everyone the option to believe in Him and avoid the heat and accept the glory and grace of God. that's what i believe.

I truly respect your beliefs, and I should mention that was very well-spoken. However, I strongly disagree with most of it.

The one part of it that I want to question you on is when you say "all of this i know". Can you clear that up a bit? How do you "know" that any of that is true?

[Badman]

I've heard many statements like tiger's statement. I've never understood why over a billion people believe that god sent down a part of himself that he then killed so we could be with him in heaven. If there was a god who wanted us to be with him, he would probably just make it so without the bloodshed. Why does god need death to prosper? Imagine this scenario: God sends clouds into the sky to spell out, in every language, "If you believe in me, you will have eternal life." Everyone on the planet sees it, Every nation records the words and recognizes the power of god. This is just one example of PEACEFUL ways god could get his message across.

[Grandpa Grizz]

Grandpa Grizz, you sure are a one dimensional character! You somehow worked Rush into this thread

Good song though, I may look into the album a little closer.

Sorry I don't drop by here more often. I do love LiVE. Y'all know that.

[Senghe]

i believe that this world and everything natural in it is too amazingly beautiful and perfect to be here by chance. i believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. all of this i know. is this something that i was taught? sure. but, i was also taught trigonometry (sp) but, i don't know a lick of that. i read the bible and as old as it is... it all applies to our current world. i believe that God expects perfection because that's what He gives. and we are so far from perfect that not one of us would stand a chance of leaving this world and being with our Maker. that is unless we could offer a sacrafice that isn't marked by $ signs, and that isn't staind with our sins... that leaves only one option... the perfect sacrafice... Jesus Christ. He didn't have to die, but He didn't want every single person to burn in a lake of fire, so He gave everyone the option to believe in Him and avoid the heat and accept the glory and grace of God. that's what i believe.

Oookay - as I've got PMT and I'm in an argumentative mood, here's two replies, take your pick:

Nice Reply
I totally disagree. The natural world is magnificent and breathtaking in it's intricacy. Who can failed to moved by looking up on a clear night and seeing other stars, far away galaxies and who knows what other worlds out there in an unimaginably large universe. Meteor showers, lunar eclipses - it's as poetic and moving a spiritual experience as there is to be had. Or even looking at the wonder of spiders web glistening with morning due. You can understand the push for people to be able to explain these things - we like assurance and answers as a species.

I think it's all too perfect and amazingly beautiful to have been created by a being that couldn't even get right making a copy of himself for his own egotistical pleasure. The universe as we understand it is not really an accident or co-incidence as we'd relate to one, that's doing evolution a disservice, as would be trying to explain to you the concept on an internet forum, especially when you have no desire to listen as you're happy with your god and find no need to challenge yourself. When you say that the Bible is as relevant today as always, remember that just like scientific theory, it has been revised and updated many times. If it is indeed relevant, it's only because bits are added, subtracted and rewritten. The difference being that science will challenge itself by trying to find holes in theories where religion relies on the person with the most forceful personality to say believe what I say or you're going to hell.

Angry Rant Reply
What kind of sadistic, sick bastard is your god? He expect perfection, yet he's so imperfect, he couldn't correctly create humans, whom he made in his own image, so he started off with a failure that he tried to put right with Jesus. So he's also a hypocrite. And all this demanding blood sacrifices - that's barbaric and a thing christians jump on pagans for. Then we have the question of him sending Jesus down - believe in me or I'll let you torture and kill my son and then you'll all burn in agony for eternity unless you're in my gang. The words glory and grace don't exactly spring to mind. No wonder the worlds fucked up if we truly were created in that particular god's image.

It's all very odd. Not to mention the very concept of monotheism - needing a imaginary friend who nobody can see, but he's really, really powerful and on your side. If you're naughty and ask him to, he'll forgive you everything - even child molestation and murder. And when you die, you'll go and live with him in his big house in the sky for ever and ever, no matter what horrible crimes you've committed as long as you say you believe and/or get a bloke in a black dress to say a magic spell of absolution as you are dying. That's not a religion - that's a collective delusion cum mental illness.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In closing I'll add that you are entitled to believe what you believe and as long as you don't force me to under pain of violence, I respect your beliefs totally and defend your right to do so.

[Badman]

I've got PMT

I had to wiki that. In america we call it pre menstrual syndrome which makes it sound like some kinda illness. Pre menstrual tension is a much better phrase.

[Hoodstock]

This song from Rush's new album Snakes and Arrows says it better than i ever could.

Faithless

I've got my own moral compass to steer by
A guiding star beats a spirit in the sky
And all the preaching voices -
Empty vessels ring so loud
As they move among the crowd
Fools and thieves are well disguised
In the temple and market place

Like a stone in the river
Against the floods of spring
I will quietly resist

Like the willows in the wind
Or the cliffs along the ocean
I will quietly resist

I don't have faith in faith
I don't believe in belief
You can call me faithless
I still cling to hope
And I believe in love
And that's faith enough for me

I've got my own spirit level for balance
To tell if my choice is leaning up or down
And all the shouting voices
Try to throw me off my course
Some by sermons, some by force
Fools and thieves are dangerous
In the temple and marketplace

Like a forest bows to winter
Beneath the deep white silence
I will quietly resist

Like a flower in the desert
That only blooms at night
I will quietly resist

Seriously, Rush has nothing to do with Live. The lead singer from Rush sucks. I can't stand him, although the drummer is awesome. Isn't there a Rush fanboard?

[SinfulEyes]

i believe that this world and everything natural in it is too amazingly beautiful and perfect to be here by chance. i believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. all of this i know. is this something that i was taught? sure. but, i was also taught trigonometry (sp) but, i don't know a lick of that. i read the bible and as old as it is... it all applies to our current world. i believe that God expects perfection because that's what He gives. and we are so far from perfect that not one of us would stand a chance of leaving this world and being with our Maker. that is unless we could offer a sacrafice that isn't marked by $ signs, and that isn't staind with our sins... that leaves only one option... the perfect sacrafice... Jesus Christ. He didn't have to die, but He didn't want every single person to burn in a lake of fire, so He gave everyone the option to believe in Him and avoid the heat and accept the glory and grace of God. that's what i believe.

How does the bible explain all of the natural tragedies and disasters in life anyways? What about people born with diseases that cause them to live maybe 4 weeks on this planet?

[Grandpa Grizz]

Seriously, Rush has nothing to do with Live. The lead singer from Rush sucks. I can't stand him, although the drummer is awesome. Isn't there a Rush fanboard?

I knew I would piss somebody off here. I didn't realize this topic was about LiVE. I thought it was about religious beliefs.

I know that if I posted some of Ed's lyrics in a thread about religion on a Rush board (and there are plenty of them) nobody would complain. In fact, many Rush fans love LiVE. LiVE is about the only band that Rush fans never diss.

[Hoodstock]

I knew I would piss somebody off here. I didn't realize this topic was about LiVE. I thought it was about religious beliefs.

I know that if I posted some of Ed's lyrics in a thread about religion on a Rush board (and there are plenty of them) nobody would complain. In fact, many Rush fans love LiVE. LiVE is about the only band that Rush fans never diss.

Seriously - I'm not pissed. Almost every post you make is about Rush, which is why I asked if there was a Rush board.

By all means, post away.

This post has been edited by Hoodstock: Oct 27 2007, 7:12 pm