What do you believe? Options

[Badman]

the problem i really have with Live, is that they don't come right out and say what it is that they are saying. and, what they are saying is what ed believes. they are too ambigous, vague... whatever....

The reason for that is that Ed doesn't feel like telling people how to worship. Some people take the song "Heaven" for a christian song while others see it as a metaphor for the joy he feels when he is with his daughter.

There is nothing wrong with being vague either, the Bible is the vaguest book I have ever seen. Some people even believe the bible is just one huge metaphor that says if we live our lives with morality we can reach a perfect life, a heaven. People interpret it so that it works into their lives. There is nothing wrong with that either... I think that more people believe in a personal god than the "drama they sell" in churches.

Oh yeah, and about the part where you said if I was a christian how could I listen to live without feeling funny... take a look into my sig a little closer.

[slainte]

The more I grow, read, learn, experience, I find myself gravitating toward wicca, the celebration of the divine feminine. Questioning what the bible contains and just how it was contrived to be "god's words" or rather what some over blown ego male dominated hierarchy thought the world should know.

[Hoodstock]

wouldnt it be funny if one of these religions is actually the true path to god, we're all pretty much doomed to the lake of fire for eternity. wouldnt that be funny? like, ouch!

Wouldn't it take the cake if it were Scientology !!!! That would be some funny shit!

This post has been edited by Hoodstock: Oct 23 2007, 7:06 pm

[Badman]

The more I grow, read, learn, experience, I find myself gravitating toward wicca, the celebration of the divine feminine. Questioning what the bible contains and just how it was contrived to be "god's words" or rather what some over blown ego male dominated hierarchy thought the world should know.

Do you really need a religion to celebrate the importance of females?

I totally get you on the male dominating part of modern religions though. Islam and Christianity have a real problem about it. It seems like such a backwards thought process to say females are inferior. Did you know that in Japan a woman is never allowed to enter a Sumo ring b/c it would be "tainting" it?

A religion that holds women a little higher than I thought is Judaism. They get liberal rights on sexual orientation, abortion and masturbation. Also, the Jewish recognize marriage rape. Men have strict rules that must be followed while woman aren't specified. Cited: (http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm)

Also, I've heard Jewish mom's are scary and command respect.

[torcatofan]

The more I grow, read, learn, experience, I find myself gravitating toward wicca, the celebration of the divine feminine. Questioning what the bible contains and just how it was contrived to be "god's words" or rather what some over blown ego male dominated hierarchy thought the world should know.

Very feministic and hypocritical.

The main religions were male-dominated to begin with because society was dominated by males. Do you actually think it is still like that today? Women are beginning to participate in religion today just as much as men do. And the Bible and Quran aren't interpreted as literally today as they used to be (at least in most chuches/synagogues/mosques).

And you think the solution is for women to make up and "gravitate" toward some stupid female-dominated religion? Isn't that a little hypocritical?

The real solution here is to encourage young girls to take their beliefs to the next level: lead youth groups, become involved in the community, etc. Religion doesn't have to be male-dominated. It's really up to society now.

[slainte]

Thank you for your insights.

And, NO I don't need a religion to celebrate the importance of females and it maybe hypocritical and of course it is feministic. Let's just say as a "cradle" Catholic and with the views of the Universal Catholic Church and the Pope, I have had many doubts and more answers than questions as of late. All comes into perspecctive when my daughter asks why she can not be a priest. And, yes, I still feel that most organized religions are male-dominated.

Btw, what religion or set of beliefs were you referring to, torcatofan, that are stupid and female-dominated? Wicca?

And, I don't think you went far enough back in history. The Celts were more of an equaltarian society prior to the advent of an angrarian society.

[Badman]

"cradle" Catholic

I think it's sick to teach religion to a child. They have no way to distinguish or choose at that level.

This post has been edited by Badman: Oct 24 2007, 5:38 pm

[torcatofan]

Thank you for your insights.

And, NO I don't need a religion to celebrate the importance of females and it maybe hypocritical and of course it is feministic. Let's just say as a "cradle" Catholic and with the views of the Universal Catholic Church and the Pope, I have had many doubts and more answers than questions as of late. All comes into perspecctive when my daughter asks why she can not be a priest. And, yes, I still feel that most organized religions are male-dominated.

Btw, what religion or set of beliefs were you referring to, torcatofan, that are stupid and female-dominated? Wicca?

And, I don't think you went far enough back in history. The Celts were more of an equaltarian society prior to the advent of an angrarian society.

You are right that religions are male-dominated, but we can change that. If your daughter wants to be a priest, she probably won't be able to in her lifetime, but she CAN do something about females becoming priests in the future. You don't see a huge movement because no one has started one.

All I'm saying here is that we need to encourage our children to believe in what they want to believe in and not let some "set of standards" imposed by a religion thousands of years ago discourage them from pursuing a passion.

As for female-dominated religion, I was just generalizing that females shouldn't gravitate toward female-dominated religions just because they don't like a male-dominated religion. That's hypocritical.

So maybe this is all really easy for me to say because I'm a male, but I have some very strong views on religion (and feminism too) and I've done lots of reading and exploration so I ain't no idiot.

[Senghe]

Most decidedly, unequivocably Atheist.

[slainte]

I think it's sick to teach religion to a child. They have no way to distinguish or choose at that level.

your opinion and you are entitled to it, but are you a parent? if not, get back to me about how you think kids should be raised. myself and my kids' father have chosen to start their lives out in an organized religion for many personal reasons, none i wish to discuss here but suffice it to say, when they are old enough to discuss and make their own decisions about their beliefs, i will embrace their choices, just as my family did for my brother and i. my daughters are raised in knowing we made choices for them when they were unable to and that any and all beliefs are good, as long as they, my girls, respect the rights of others....my brother is buddist, my good friend jewish and others close to us are not catholic.

all that dribble imho....and torcato, yes, i know...you are no idiot....not many here are...just over opinionated on some topics...

This post has been edited by slainte: Oct 25 2007, 12:08 am

[Wambangalang]

I think it's sick to teach religion to a child. They have no way to distinguish or choose at that level.

well i was pumped through the catholic machine; baptism, first communion, confirmation, sunday school for 8 years..etc. I even had my own crucifix in my room that i prayed to every night till i was about ten and thats when i decided to stop going to church.

there was nothing wrong with being raised like that, even though most of my friends who were raised the same way are catholic die-hards to this day, and wont accept any other point of view. The irony is, these are the same guys who will put a cat in a microwave and hunt wild pigs for sport. Animals dont have souls according to the bible. I could never do that.

there comes a time when you CAN distinguish right from wrong assuming there is no psychotic ilness, and you cant blame religion for the impulses people act on no matter how much people use religion to justify them.

[torcatofan]

I think it's sick to teach religion to a child. They have no way to distinguish or choose at that level.

I think you're wrong. Children should be taught religion. There's a difference between teaching religion and forcing someone to believe in a religion. I actually think learning about various world religions and religion in general should begin at a young age. Think about how open-minded we would all be about religion. Today, it seems the complete opposite. Many young people are dragged into a religion without any knowledge of that religion nor any other religion. They simply believe something because their parents believe it. This creates close-mindedness.

I actually saw a story about a 7-year-old preacher in Alabama the other day. His father is a preacher too and the kid, though incredibly intelligent for his age, clearly spews back everything he has heard his father preaching. I think this is a prime example of what we are doing to our kids. Everyone, even your own kids believe it or not, deserves religious freedom.

all that dribble imho....and torcato, yes, i know...you are no idiot....not many here are...just over opinionated on some topics...

So true.

[crazy1]

I agree that children should learn about all the various religions and not be brain washed into thinking that any one religion is the right one. When they get older they should be able to choose for themselves. My older sister was brain washed into thinking if your not baptised you will go to hell. WTF! Also when I went to Catholic school I didn't like the way they would use God to instill fear in you. I was also wacked on the hand by a nun with a ruler because I said "If God is everywhere, why do we have to go to church to pray".

This post has been edited by crazy1: Oct 25 2007, 8:06 am

[slainte]

the catholicsm i was raised with and am raising my daughters is one of a "god" who is not judgemental and embraces all...and is at times, in direct opposition to the church in other areas of the world. the thoughts, community and way of life of a church can be based on the congregation and the priest, pastor who leads...hopefully one with an open mind. what i do embrace from the jesuit faith life is social justice and working for the good of others.

[Badman]

I think you're wrong. Children should be taught religion. There's a difference between teaching religion and forcing someone to believe in a religion. I actually think learning about various world religions and religion in general should begin at a young age. Think about how open-minded we would all be about religion. Today, it seems the complete opposite. Many young people are dragged into a religion without any knowledge of that religion nor any other religion. They simply believe something because their parents believe it. This creates close-mindedness.

I actually saw a story about a 7-year-old preacher in Alabama the other day. His father is a preacher too and the kid, though incredibly intelligent for his age, clearly spews back everything he has heard his father preaching. I think this is a prime example of what we are doing to our kids. Everyone, even your own kids believe it or not, deserves religious freedom.
So true.

You and I think alot alike and I agree with you on alot of these points. Teaching kids about all the religions is great b/c it encourages a cosmopolitan view of the world and limits Ethnocentrism. It does seem to be interesting that the push towards religion at a young age does drive people away at older ages... It happened to me.

I think because kids have not been fully enculturated they have really pure thoughts they we could learn from. "From the mouth of a baby, will come the world saving words that will save us all" to quote Ed. I saw that same video you did and it was sick. The parents were proud of their little bigot. They took away that kid's innocence and that kid will probably one day reject all that he was taught.

And to Slaine, no, I do not have children b/c I am a student and I have to get a foundation before I can begin my family. I was taught christianity as a kid and sometimes I associate things with supernatural qualities because I haven't broke myself of the habit and I have to stop and think about how foolish the thoughts are. I don't want my kids to have to go through what I am going through.