Radiant Sea performance origins, When and Where the live tracks and two new songs came from Options

[AgentK7]

I was hoping this thread could pull the forum's vast Live live knowledge together to track down where the live tracks came from on Radiant Sea. I was kind of miffed that they didn't include that information on the CD packaging.

Anyway, I know track 8 "Nobody Knows" is the same live performance as found on the Birds Of Pray DVD recorded on May 18, 2002 at PinkPop, Landgraaf, The Netherlands. (I know that's an easy one, but it's a start).

I know I could probably use Bootleg Heaven and figure out most of it myself, but I don't have enough free time to do that. I'm sure other members are also curious.

I'm hoping we can wrap this thread up by figuring out all the performances, maybe this information could then be added to the live discography, etc.

....and to discover the origins of the two new tracks.

This post has been edited by AgentK7: Sep 24 2007, 8:05 pm

[CRH]

I Alone and Lakini's Juice are from the Brussels show on 5/31/03.

The Beauty of Gray is from...Holmdel, NJ on 8/22/00?

That's all I can think of so far.

[AgentK7]

I Alone and Lakini's Juice are from the Brussels show on 5/31/03.

The Beauty of Gray is from...Holmdel, NJ on 8/22/00?

That's all I can think of so far.

Thanks CRH, good catches. I have the Brussels show and was able to confirm those two tracks, I found The Beauty Of Gray and confirmed that was indeed from Holmdel, NJ on 8/22/00.

What I found interesting is that the Radiant Sea Lakini's Juice was uncensored "3:50ish "too f*ckin' afraid" compared to the net version (guess it was probably a radio tweak, you can kinda hear it), but for some reason they took a line out of the Beauty Of Gray on Radiant Sea. Just after the 2:42 minute mark Ed says "Oh yeah" and in the mp3 version on bootleg heaven (2:54 on that track) he says "We wrote this song when we were 18 years old". In The Radiant Sea version you just hear the band playing. You would not notice that it's missing unless you heard the other version. Just thought that was interesting. I'm sure there are other edits, but I don't have enough time to analyze everything.

I'm am 95% certain that Pillar Of Davidson is from the 10/03/01 First Union Spectrum show in Philadelphia, PA. The bootleg I compared is an audience recording so it's not quite as clear, but the inflections in Ed's voice seems to be almost identical throughout the song.

Well that's 5 out of 10.

This post has been edited by AgentK7: Sep 22 2007, 10:09 pm

[mattdm11]

track 1 - the beauty of gray - previously released on the FOL xmas 2000 fan club cd (8/00)

track 2 - pillar of davidson - previously released on the FOL 2001 xmas fan club cd (10/3/01)

track 3 - shit towne - previously released on the FOL 2000 xmas fan club cd (8/00)

track 4- i alone - previously released on the FOL 2003 xmas fan club cd (5/31/03)

track 5 - lakini's juice - previously released on the FOL 2005 xmas fan club cd (5/31/03)

track 6 - the distance - prevously released on the FOL 2000 xmas fan club cd (8/00)

track 7 - the dolphins cry - previously released on the FOL 2003 xmas fan club cd (5/31/03)

track 8 - nobody knows - previously released on the FOL 2002 xmas fan club cd (5/18/02)

track 9 - sweet release - previously released on the FOL 2004 xmas fan club cd (5/28/04)

track 10 - overcome - previously released on the FOL 2001 xmas fan club cd (10/3/01)

let me repeat myself from the other thread....this album is a joke.

[CRH]

track 1 - the beauty of gray - previously released on the FOL xmas 2000 fan club cd (8/00)

track 2 - pillar of davidson - previously released on the FOL 2001 xmas fan club cd (10/3/01)

track 3 - shit towne - previously released on the FOL 2000 xmas fan club cd (8/00)

track 4- i alone - previously released on the FOL 2003 xmas fan club cd (5/31/03)

track 5 - lakini's juice - previously released on the FOL 2005 xmas fan club cd (5/31/03)

track 6 - the distance - prevously released on the FOL 2000 xmas fan club cd (8/00)

track 7 - the dolphins cry - previously released on the FOL 2003 xmas fan club cd (5/31/03)

track 8 - nobody knows - previously released on the FOL 2002 xmas fan club cd (5/18/02)

track 9 - sweet release - previously released on the FOL 2004 xmas fan club cd (5/28/04)

track 10 - overcome - previously released on the FOL 2001 xmas fan club cd (10/3/01)

let me repeat myself from the other thread....this album is a joke.

I see what you're saying...and I even have most of the bootlegs from which these songs come. But I'm not a fan club member...so this was never officially released to me. Also, if you were a fan club member, wasn't this CD free? So can you complain about something free?

This post has been edited by CRH: Sep 24 2007, 4:55 pm

[AgentK7]

I see what you're saying...and I even have most of the bootlegs from which these songs come. But I'm not a fan club member...so this was never officially released to me. Also, if you were a fan club member, wasn't this CD free? So can you complain about something free?

I mentioned in another thread that the fact that these were all previously released fan club tracks are surely at least part of the reason Live gave them to fan club members for free.

I think the keyword on the packaging is "bootleg rarities". If it had been labeled "Fan Club Rarities" it would have been more truthful. While I do enjoy the live performances of these 10 tracks, I think EVERYONE on the board expected rarities to include some songs that were played live but was never included on a record. (Don't get me wrong, I really like both of the new songs but would have been happier with 2 new songs and 1 unreleased live track)

...Back to the subject of the thread. Now that the mystery of the live tracks has been solved (thanks mattdm11) I'd be curious if anyone has ferreted out of the boys the origins of the two new tracks.

[mattdm11]

I see what you're saying...and I even have most of the bootlegs from which these songs come. But I'm not a fan club member...so this was never officially released to me. Also, if you were a fan club member, wasn't this CD free? So can you complain about something free?

I'm not a fan club member - I (stupidly) thought this was all new stuff. Like I said, I paid $15 for two songs. Not to mention I probably spent $100 getting all the fan club singles off eBay.

[LovinLIVE]

I'm not a fan club member - I (stupidly) thought this was all new stuff. Like I said, I paid $15 for two songs. Not to mention I probably spent $100 getting all the fan club singles off eBay.

Thank you for posting the list. I had been meaning to get on and ask if anyone would be so kind as to enlighten those of us who don't have all of the old fanclub gift CD's. I've only been a member for a little over a year. The CD is not exactly what I was expecting, of course I was hoping for some real rarities too, but these are great live recordings and I love the new songs, so I'm happy! It would be great to get some info on the new songs.

[Hoodstock]

I said in a previous thread I think Beautiful Invisible was a cut from TDTH and Radiant Sea was a cut from V. This is all speculation, but with Tricky on Radiant Sea that one is probably correct.

[Hoodstock]

track 1 - the beauty of gray - previously released on the FOL xmas 2000 fan club cd (8/00)

track 2 - pillar of davidson - previously released on the FOL 2001 xmas fan club cd (10/3/01)

track 3 - shit towne - previously released on the FOL 2000 xmas fan club cd (8/00)

track 4- i alone - previously released on the FOL 2003 xmas fan club cd (5/31/03)

track 5 - lakini's juice - previously released on the FOL 2005 xmas fan club cd (5/31/03)

track 6 - the distance - prevously released on the FOL 2000 xmas fan club cd (8/00)

track 7 - the dolphins cry - previously released on the FOL 2003 xmas fan club cd (5/31/03)

track 8 - nobody knows - previously released on the FOL 2002 xmas fan club cd (5/18/02)

track 9 - sweet release - previously released on the FOL 2004 xmas fan club cd (5/28/04)

track 10 - overcome - previously released on the FOL 2001 xmas fan club cd (10/3/01)

let me repeat myself from the other thread....this album is a joke.

Glad I'm not paying to be a fan club member.

By the way, I just notice other fan sites are linked on FOL, but this one isn't even mentioned. Nick, why is that?

[AgentK7]

I said in a previous thread I think Beautiful Invisible was a cut from TDTH and Radiant Sea was a cut from V. This is all speculation, but with Tricky on Radiant Sea that one is probably correct.

My only problem with that is if these were true leftovers, wouldn't they be the property or at least require licensing from Radioactive? Remember, this is the reason they claim they haven't released the other b-sides.

If they are leftovers in the sense that they re-recorded them, then it's amazing they have that kind of quality stuff just sitting around and they're not putting these on compilation records or something.

Your argument about Tricky is a strong one though. If they did re-record these, adding Tricky would be... well ....tricky. I would think Ed would have just written in a new bridge, the song would probably be better for it.

[CRH]

My only problem with that is if these were true leftovers, wouldn't they be the property or at least require licensing from Radioactive? Remember, this is the reason they claim they haven't released the other b-sides.

If they are leftovers in the sense that they re-recorded them, then it's amazing they have that kind of quality stuff just sitting around and they're not putting these on compilation records or something.

Your argument about Tricky is a strong one though. If they did re-record these, adding Tricky would be... well ....tricky. I would think Ed would have just written in a new bridge, the song would probably be better for it.

It is really strange with these 2 songs. It does appear that Radiant Sea is from the V recording process. It does not have the more active electronic/keyboard noises that are prevalent on the album though...could it be from early on? But still, that doesn't help explain Radioactive in all of this.

I also highly doubt that these were re-recorded. I'm not sure exactly where to place Beautiful Invisible (I think I support hoodstock's TDTH era claim), but Radiant Sea has all of the sounds from V.

Remember the thread (I forget who started it) that compared the recording style of V to a song off of Mental Jewelry? It also had a youtube link, about the way music is recorded now kills the quality. Could that kind of analysis be done again to compare Radiant Sea to a song that was on V?

[Alex]

Remember the thread (I forget who started it) that compared the recording style of V to a song off of Mental Jewelry? It also had a youtube link, about the way music is recorded now kills the quality. Could that kind of analysis be done again to compare Radiant Sea to a song that was on V?

This is simply not true. I went over it in the other thread, I think, but the way things are recorded now doesn't 'kill the quality'. Simply that mastering, since about the mid 90's, has become more and more about squashing all the dynamics out of the music, hence the loss of dynamic range. Digital recording however is better now than it has been before.

Anyway, I haven't got Radiant Sea, but I'm fairly confident that I'd be able to tell if was mixed/produced by the same people that did V. But then, depending on whether this was actually a track in consideration for the final tracklisting, the song may not have been mastered at the same time. And then there's the whole Radioactive thing...

To answer your question- no, that 'analysis' was faulty to begin with (the youtube link was compressing an already mastered file). I could go a lot more in depth but I won't...

[SecretInsomnia]

a copy of one of my post on the other board:

great songs!!! especially Radiant Sea

well you know what ,

before I heard the new songs, I got the artwork from a friend, on which you can read that both songs are remixed by the producers who did V. So those are V songs, I thought. Well, also Michael Railton is named for those songs, as said in the posts before, and the only time he worked with them on record, was on V. If I remember correctly he's named for one or both new ongs, not the live recordings.

But, now according to Radiant Sea, now I heard it, the deep Live 'feeling', the whole atmosphere that it breathes, makes me that I just can't believe it's a V outtake. V has pretty cool songs, sure. but not any song on there hits that special feeling that you recognise Live in (most of TDTH songs had that).
Also the lyrics are more TDTH-ish than V-ish. So...hmmm ??

My explanation is, that it's a 'demo', an early song from TDTH, which was finished in the V era. Maybe it was already done, and that they mixed it for V, that would explain the credits that let us believe it's from V.
Remember the thing about V? Ed wrote many songs of it on tour, but some other songs of it came from what they kept from the TDTH era (1998-2000). Check Overcome: that's a TDTH song, but used (and finished) for V.

Ohw and about the Trickey thing: I'm not sure it's him first: he isn't named in the artwork, and second: it doesn't sound like the Trickey we know from SC en Evolution R L.

everyone says it's Tricky, but why? Cuz it's the only rapping artist Live worked with? I don't know if it's Tricky.Can be Chad Taylor..imagine it , who knows. Ohw and remember the strange voice in WDID (on Awake) ? It also turned out to be Chad if I remember correctly.

just my 2 cents !

This post has been edited by SecretInsomnia: Sep 25 2007, 4:34 pm

[AgentK7]

I think the consensus is these are V songs...the biggest question though, if they can release these, why not the older b-side Radioactive stuff?