Long time listener, first time caller, SFBM, Live & evolution Options

[mrmcpheezy]

I guess mostly because the songs they're writing now is the stuff you'd expect from 18yr olds, and Mental Jewlry was more the word of guys in their mid 30s .. so that's part of it.

Hella. Maybe not in terms of technical difficulty, but definitely in terms of creativity.

[mrmcpheezy]

I completely disagree with you here. I think it's the exact opposite as well. Mental Jewelry is mature in a sense, but fits in perfectly with a group of intelligent young men searching for the answers to some of the things that confuse them.

It seems to me that you judge some of the new lyrics as if you have an exact interpretation for them. I gotta laugh at that.....sorry. what you interpret them as aren't necessarily what they mean. I agree that I'm not too fond of some of the lyrics from V or BOP as Mcpheezy pointed out to me in another thread. Some are simple and boring to come straight to the point.

But it seems thats the way things go as you get on with age. Things become simplified. You're not searching for those answers anymore. Many things that confused you before are much clearer 15 years later. Life becomes more about accepting what you've found to be an unchangeable reality.

Although many of you may view it as soft, Ed seems to be stuck in a place that involve the love he feels for his wife and children. They are what matters to him and many different aspects of love seem to be stemming from it. So he writes about what matters to him. It sounds simple because it is simple to him I guess. He's not about to write songs to appease you or me.

Sometimes I wonder if you're just not paying attention, or if you're just an idiot. I have asolutely no problem with the change in subject matter or the change in tone. None. At all. The problem I have is with the quality of the writing. If they want to write soft love songs, then that's fine. But fuck man, that in no way implies that the songs you write have to be completel void of creativity. Do you not understand what most of us who are complaining are actually complaining about? You and others keep coming back to the "well they're writing about what matters to them now" and "we're never going to get a throwing copper II" arguments. So often that it appears as though you're not even reading our posts that explicitly state that we don't mind the topics they're currently writing about and that we don't fucking want a throwing copper II. What you need to start doing is actually reading our posts and responding to the points we fucking make, not the points you wish we were making because they're easier to argue against.

Live's earlier work was more creative and challenging than their newer work. For a lot of us, it's been disappointing to see them go from one of the most creative and respectable bands around to what they are today: pop stars that are more focused on writing music that 14 year old girls will like than challenging themselve and their listeners artistically.

[swedeguy]

Can´t you just shut up and move on, go ruin some other board. It´s getting pretty pathetic.

[SecretInsomnia]

maybe your post would make more sense to more people by leaving FUCK, GODDAMN and FUCKING in your posts

Just a suggestion

[mrmcpheezy]

Can´t you just shut up and move on, go ruin some other board. It´s getting pretty pathetic.

You're just mad I have more posts than you.

maybe your post would make more sense to more people by leaving FUCK, GODDAMN and FUCKING in your posts

Just a suggestion

How does the vulgarity in my posts make my point any less clear?

This post has been edited by mrmcpheezy: Mar 6 2006, 9:29 am

[LiveRoCkS77]

Sometimes I wonder if you're just not paying attention, or if you're just an idiot. I have asolutely no problem with the change in subject matter or the change in tone. None. At all. The problem I have is with the quality of the writing. If they want to write soft love songs, then that's fine. But fuck man, that in no way implies that the songs you write have to be completel void of creativity. Do you not understand what most of us who are complaining are actually complaining about? You and others keep coming back to the "well they're writing about what matters to them now" and "we're never going to get a throwing copper II" arguments. So often that it appears as though you're not even reading our posts that explicitly state that we don't mind the topics they're currently writing about and that we don't fucking want a throwing copper II. What you need to start doing is actually reading our posts and responding to the points we fucking make, not the points you wish we were making because they're easier to argue against.

Live's earlier work was more creative and challenging than their newer work. For a lot of us, it's been disappointing to see them go from one of the most creative and respectable bands around to what they are today: pop stars that are more focused on writing music that 14 year old girls will like than challenging themselve and their listeners artistically.

LMAO.......4 consecutive posts to say what? Who gives a flying fuck what you think? FYI, I responded directly to a comment that was made, a specific one. I read, your posts and it's all the same whiny bullshit....which in turn, I responded to as well, if you'd bothered to open your eyes and actually read my post.

Which is, I don't think creativity is much of an issue here. The point i made is that I see things being simplified here. If in your mind, that compromises the quality of writing, good for fucking you!!! You're my hero!!!!!!

That's LIVE's perogative, another point you seem to have missed. You seem to be stuck on the creativity thing, which I guess your hero Maynard posesses to a great degree. Looking for the contrived metaphors to lead the zombie masses to search for hidden meaning inside of their drug hazed, warped minds. That's all good buddy!!!

BUT YET ANOTHER point you seem to miss is that you're not going to get that here.....are you? How many albums has it been since you've felt the creativity has been gone? 3? 4? AND STILL you are hanging around and complaining like a little girl about a lack of creativity?

Do you apply these methods to all aspects of your life? Go to movies from a particualr director whose movies you once liked? Although the last five have sucked, you keep paying your money to see another one, then commence to sit there and bitch at the lack of creativity and artistic relevance? What kind of crack are you smoking? I actually can't believe you have the gall to sit there and wonder if I'm an idiot and not reading your posts.

Have you looked in the mirror lately. Tried to make sense out of anything you say? Because your argument is utterly ridiculous to me. Which goes back to YET ANOTHER point I made in a post that supposedly didn't adress anything relevant. If you truly feel that all these albums lack creativity and any kind of artistic challenge to the listener.....FUCK OFF. Does it truly piss you off that much that you have to come here day in and day out to argue your nonsense?

"BOOOOOOHOOOOOOO, Live isn't creative anymore! I'm angry!!!!!! I'm gonna bitch likke a 5 year old girl on their fansite!!!!"

I'm not arguing that their writing doesn't lack creativity. I'm not arguing that their new music is good based on any kind of subjective reasoning. I'm saying, what's the use of getting so riled up about what makes some Live fans think this shit is good?

"What makes them tick? I need to understand this!!!!! I can't just leave!!! I've got a point to prove!!!!!"

What a pathetic slice of shit layered between two mouldy ass slices of bread. Get the fuck out already and find what makes other people tick based on their thinking of RELEVANT issues in today's society. Instead of sitting in here under the pretense of some overwhelming urge to understand something trivial. Dumb bastard.

[Pokey]

I completely disagree with you here. I think it's the exact opposite as well. Mental Jewelry is mature in a sense, but fits in perfectly with a group of intelligent young men searching for the answers to some of the things that confuse them.

It seems to me that you judge some of the new lyrics as if you have an exact interpretation for them. I gotta laugh at that.....sorry. what you interpret them as aren't necessarily what they mean. I agree that I'm not too fond of some of the lyrics from V or BOP as Mcpheezy pointed out to me in another thread. Some are simple and boring to come straight to the point.

But it seems thats the way things go as you get on with age. Things become simplified. You're not searching for those answers anymore. Many things that confused you before are much clearer 15 years later. Life becomes more about accepting what you've found to be an unchangeable reality.

Although many of you may view it as soft, Ed seems to be stuck in a place that involve the love he feels for his wife and children. They are what matters to him and many different aspects of love seem to be stemming from it. So he writes about what matters to him. It sounds simple because it is simple to him I guess. He's not about to write songs to appease you or me.

So I think it really comes down to one thing although it sounds kind of harsh.

Don't identify with it? Too bad, fuck off. Think it's gay? Find music that isn't....and fuck off. Can't respect his choice as an artist to write about what matters most to him......fuck off, twice.

Quit fucking whining already even. Yes, freedom of speech....blah blah blah blah blah. But have your say all you want and then....FUCK OFF. What's the sense in hanging around and discussing crap that doesn't appeal to you anymore? Get a life and let it go already. It's called growing up, take part.

If you don't like a particular car, do you stand around at the dealership for weeks on end, bitching at them to make a model resembling one they did 10 years ago? NO, you'd look like an idiot. And that's exactly what you whiners here look like now. People like me are laughing at how utterly stupid you are. Just can't move on and let it go. It's really very sad and pathetic. I'm not trying to insult you with that statement, it's fact. If you opened your eyes and were honest with yourselves, you'd see it plain as day.

That's a lot of words on the internet...

Anyways, it's got nothing to do with interpretation, you can interpretate a kids book any way you want but it's still gonna be a book written for children. If "oo baby let my lovin' ease your pain" is stimulating enough for you then well, might I sugest a band called Savage Garden, you'd like them.

The problem is I'm not objecting to the content of the songs, you're missing my point here .. there is nothing wrong writing about love or your children but how you go about it says a great deal about your creativity. Look at TDTH there is an album which deals with the theme of love pretty deeply but it's done it in an interesting and creative way.

I'm not really into cars at all so I wouldn't do anything of the sort. I'm here because I'm a fan of Live, I love a lot of their music and hold a lot of it very close to me. However, as you can probably guess I think the new stuff is a huge drop in quality which sucks so if you're allowed to sit around and talk about what the band you love is doing now in a positive light then you can do so, and if I want to sit around and talk about what the band I love is doing now in a negative light then I can do so to, because who knows what the future holds but for now..

[mrmcpheezy]

Which is, I don't think creativity is much of an issue here. The point i made is that I see things being simplified here. If in your mind, that compromises the quality of writing, good for fucking you

How could a complete lack of creativity not compromise the quality of a song?

That's LIVE's perogative, another point you seem to have missed. You seem to be stuck on the creativity thing, which I guess your hero Maynard posesses to a great degree. Looking for the contrived metaphors to lead the zombie masses to search for hidden meaning inside of their drug hazed, warped minds. That's all good buddy!!!

I'd just like to point out that I've never said anything about maynard being creative or uncreative. I think I cited one tool song for having pretty good lyrics, but other than that, the only people that rant and rave about tool here are the people that make fun of me for liking them. I've never said that they were good musicians, or that they're creative, or anything of the sort. Not to say that these statements aren't true...just that I haven't made them, so please don't attack those statements when talking with me, as I've never made them. Thanks.

I'm not arguing that their writing doesn't lack creativity.

Are you admitting that it does?

What a pathetic slice of shit layered between two mouldy ass slices of bread. Get the fuck out already and find what makes other people tick based on their thinking of RELEVANT issues in today's society. Instead of sitting in here under the pretense of some overwhelming urge to understand something trivial. Dumb bastard.

*yawns*

[mrmcpheezy]

I'm here because I'm a fan of Live, I love a lot of their music and hold a lot of it very close to me. However, as you can probably guess I think the new stuff is a huge drop in quality which sucks so if you're allowed to sit around and talk about what the band you love is doing now in a positive light then you can do so, and if I want to sit around and talk about what the band I love is doing now in a negative light then I can do so to, because who knows what the future holds but for now..

pwnt? Yes, pwnt.

[LiveRoCkS77]

Personally, I don't see how TDTH is so much more creative. It's all pretty simple and straightforward if you ask me.

But I agree with most of the points you make. But I'm not sitting around and talking about what the band is doing in a positive light nor did I say that the line you mentioned was stimulating to me.

But maybe what you get out of that line isn't necessarily what somebody else might get. It may seem simple and contrived to you and I can't blame you for feeling that way. But unlike the hundreds of pop artists who've written similar lines, I doubt it was meant in the same context. I doubt if it came straight from the heart with a lot of them. But I believe it does with Kowalcyzk, as simple and uncreative as it is.

Also, FYI, I wasn't necessarily speaking about you in my reference although you have been guilty of it in the past. You have to admit that there are a lot of people running around saying shit like "I'm tired of hearing about Ed writing about his daughters, what's next" or "that shit sucks" and things of that sort. Those people are the target of my flame, sorry if you felt that included you.

Although I'm not happy myself with what I've heard lately, I'm not going to sit back and be blatantly critical and rude, out of respect for this band. I don't accept it as creative or exceptionally artistic neither. But I respect it as something that is close to the heart of a musician I love, however simple and uncreative it may be.

I think you young folk just want things your way and don't have much respect for the way other people think and for where they are in life. You make a lame argument about how you don't mind the content and all that, it's the creativity that matters. I don't think creativity matters in the mind of an artist so much when things have become clear and simple to him or her.

I've heard you specifically complain about the content of lots of songs. You just can't admit when you're wrong nor do you ever fail to find new and feeble ways to achieve some form of self justification.

[Leigh]

You're just mad I have more posts than you.
How does the vulgarity in my posts make my point any less clear?

Can I just ask why you are posting this shit on a Fan site? When clearly you are not a Fan of this band, I've said it before but in bad language so it was removed from this board (fair enough), so I'll say it again more clearly.
Stay out of this board!!
Your comments are not welcome here!
Perhaps you should go back and read the Terms and Conditions of this site, I believe it says somewhere that no sledging of the band is allowed but for some reason your input gets posted.
I can understand some frustration from some fans but you and some others such as 'andthelettuce' are constantly putting OUR band down. Fuck Off!!!!

[mrmcpheezy]

You make a lame argument about how you don't mind the content and all that, it's the creativity that matters. I don't think creativity matters in the mind of an artist so much when things have become clear and simple to him or her.

Why do you read "creative" to mean "complex"? I expect artists to at least attempt to be creative. This does not mean or imply that their work should be complex. Why do you keep speaking as though we're sitting here expecting them to write complicated music? No one's saying that.

[mrmcpheezy]

Your comments are not welcome here!

You obviously haven't been paying attention.

[Leigh]

Hey all,

I don't post here much, but I've been reading all of the posts lately regarding the new album and Live's sound. I thought I'd share my 2 cents.

To be objective is almost impossible, especially for a follower of a band that I've literally grown up with (their music is the soundtrack of my life). For this reason, its hard for us to objectively judge their music. But in a very strange way, we are the best critiques of Live's music because we know them so well. How can someone who never gives Live a read chance, be a good judge of their music? For that, I say, fuck all of the big name reviews you see.

I was watching a video from back in early 1994 when Live played in Sao Paolo, Brazil. They were terribly young, but there was such a raw energy coming from their hearts, it was impossible not to notice this band. They fuckin' kicked ass; as simple as their music was, it was so powerful. There was a "raw" nature about Ed's voice. It was deeper, had more grit, and cut through you like the sharpest knife. God, I miss that sound of Live...I can't deny that I do.

As Live evolved, and as their music evolved, its evident that things have changed from those early days. They're more refined, more talented musically, and perhaps they no longer have to prove anything to anyone. Up until TDTH, Live, to me, was nothing short of ground-breaking and inspirational. Those 1st 4 albums...jesus, man, they constantly play in my head...non-stop. They are a part of who I am. It was at V that I got worried. Truthfully, save about 3 songs off that album...the rest was pure garbage in my opinion. Live's sound (mainly the lyrics, to be honest) became overly produced, almost forced, and plain corny.

That didn't stop me from listening to Live all the time. I took the album for what it was, dissected it, took from it what I enjoyed and what was the essence of Live, and I moved on, waiting for more. Then, BOP: At this point, I was one of the only people I knew still listening to Live. Is this Live's best album? No. But it had sparks of genius that reaffirmed for me that this band was right for me. For those of you that don't agree, take one good listen to "Lighthouse" and you'll know what I mean. After V, I was weary, but that song alone made me realize that this band makes me feel emotions inside that I can't describe...that no other music does. No other band can make a rock song like that...period.

Its obvious that Live's gradual move towards a more laid-back, poppier sound is going to be even more pronounced in SFBM. But god damn, even if it sounds a bit poppier than what I usually listen to, no one else in music does it like Live. They just have a "sound" that can't be understood fully...you just feel it. Again, if you don't believe me, take a listen to the pre-chorus in "mystery," when ed sings, "oh, how it deepens"....that is Live. That pre-chorus is Live; that sound is the sound of the band that still inspires me to this day - they aren't afraid to talk about seemingly "corny" topics like love, they are positive, spiritual, and deep. (even if the lyrics don't seem that way sometimes) If that doesn't make sense to you, then perhaps Live is not the band that plays in your soul.

Do I think SFBM will be Live's best album? No, throwing copper is #1 for me. But do I think that I'd rather listen to anything Live puts out over 98% of the music out there? Yes, almost always. Because I have evolved and grown to love their change of sound, and I appreciate it for what it is. We'll never get another Throwing Copper - that was a stepping stone for 4 young guys; that's what came out of them in 1994....SFBM is from the same guys 12 years later. And somehow, they still find a way to blow my mind album after album...even if its just a few songs....

Sorry for the long post, kids. I needed to get that out. Enjoy the music.

THANK YOU

[Leigh]

You obviously haven't been paying attention.

Are you still crapping on? Find a board where people who like to rubbish other bands because your in the wrong place. There must be at least one site where know-alls like yourself go.