Long time listener, first time caller, SFBM, Live & evolution Options

[pizan0]

Hey all,

I don't post here much, but I've been reading all of the posts lately regarding the new album and Live's sound. I thought I'd share my 2 cents.

To be objective is almost impossible, especially for a follower of a band that I've literally grown up with (their music is the soundtrack of my life). For this reason, its hard for us to objectively judge their music. But in a very strange way, we are the best critiques of Live's music because we know them so well. How can someone who never gives Live a read chance, be a good judge of their music? For that, I say, fuck all of the big name reviews you see.

I was watching a video from back in early 1994 when Live played in Sao Paolo, Brazil. They were terribly young, but there was such a raw energy coming from their hearts, it was impossible not to notice this band. They fuckin' kicked ass; as simple as their music was, it was so powerful. There was a "raw" nature about Ed's voice. It was deeper, had more grit, and cut through you like the sharpest knife. God, I miss that sound of Live...I can't deny that I do.

As Live evolved, and as their music evolved, its evident that things have changed from those early days. They're more refined, more talented musically, and perhaps they no longer have to prove anything to anyone. Up until TDTH, Live, to me, was nothing short of ground-breaking and inspirational. Those 1st 4 albums...jesus, man, they constantly play in my head...non-stop. They are a part of who I am. It was at V that I got worried. Truthfully, save about 3 songs off that album...the rest was pure garbage in my opinion. Live's sound (mainly the lyrics, to be honest) became overly produced, almost forced, and plain corny.

That didn't stop me from listening to Live all the time. I took the album for what it was, dissected it, took from it what I enjoyed and what was the essence of Live, and I moved on, waiting for more. Then, BOP: At this point, I was one of the only people I knew still listening to Live. Is this Live's best album? No. But it had sparks of genius that reaffirmed for me that this band was right for me. For those of you that don't agree, take one good listen to "Lighthouse" and you'll know what I mean. After V, I was weary, but that song alone made me realize that this band makes me feel emotions inside that I can't describe...that no other music does. No other band can make a rock song like that...period.

Its obvious that Live's gradual move towards a more laid-back, poppier sound is going to be even more pronounced in SFBM. But god damn, even if it sounds a bit poppier than what I usually listen to, no one else in music does it like Live. They just have a "sound" that can't be understood fully...you just feel it. Again, if you don't believe me, take a listen to the pre-chorus in "mystery," when ed sings, "oh, how it deepens"....that is Live. That pre-chorus is Live; that sound is the sound of the band that still inspires me to this day - they aren't afraid to talk about seemingly "corny" topics like love, they are positive, spiritual, and deep. (even if the lyrics don't seem that way sometimes) If that doesn't make sense to you, then perhaps Live is not the band that plays in your soul.

Do I think SFBM will be Live's best album? No, throwing copper is #1 for me. But do I think that I'd rather listen to anything Live puts out over 98% of the music out there? Yes, almost always. Because I have evolved and grown to love their change of sound, and I appreciate it for what it is. We'll never get another Throwing Copper - that was a stepping stone for 4 young guys; that's what came out of them in 1994....SFBM is from the same guys 12 years later. And somehow, they still find a way to blow my mind album after album...even if its just a few songs....

Sorry for the long post, kids. I needed to get that out. Enjoy the music.

[torcatofan]

Wow, that was one of the best posts I've ever read on this board. Can't really say much else. Very well-said. I agree with most of it.

[mfitz804]

But do I think that I'd rather listen to anything Live puts out over 98% of the music out there? Yes, almost always.

Nicely stated. I'll take a mediocre Live album over the best album of 98% of the "popular" artists out there, without a doubt. I could live with a little less of Ed's falsetto, but I look forward to the new album and what it brings to the table. It will not be Throwing Copper II and the boys will not sound like they did twelve years ago (that's right, it was 12 damn years ago).

12 years ago I was 17 and WAY different than I am at 29...in my musical tastes, viewpoints, intelligence, and expression. I don't understand why some folks are pissed that Live has done the same. Its just the natural way things go in life.

I guess the answer is, if you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to listen. Go buy the new Beyonce CD or something.

[Pokey]

12 years ago I was 17 and WAY different than I am at 29...in my musical tastes, viewpoints, intelligence, and expression. I don't understand why some folks are pissed that Live has done the same. Its just the natural way things go in life.

I guess mostly because the songs they're writing now is the stuff you'd expect from 18yr olds, and Mental Jewlry was more the word of guys in their mid 30s .. so that's part of it.

[mfitz804]

I don't think that is most people's gripe at all. Most people think they've become too poppy and more suited to Adult Contemporary stations, and that they don't play stuff as heavy as they used to.

I am a guitarist, and I must say, the music on Mental Jewelry and Throwing Copper is so elementary its not funny. Anyone with a couple months of guitar lessons (or self-teaching themselves for that time)could pretty much play any of these songs. So I don't think the music there is what you'd expect from more mature folks in their 30's.

Those albums came out in a time where technical playing was not required, as long as you played loud and with enough angst. Most of MJ and TC are three chord rock songs. Personally, it never bothered me because I like three chord rock. I don't think the quality of the music has changed much at all. The guitar parts are still simple melodies. The tone and general emotion behind them have certainly changed. Compare the angst in White,Discussion to any of the recent stuff.

As far as the lyrics go, the themes in ed's lyrics have become way more toned down and mellow as he has gotten older. Perhaps the falsetto has developed out of an inability to hit the high notes in his natural voice, an unfortunate side effect of age. Whatever it is, its clearly the direction that he and the band wanted to take, have taken, and hope that we follow with them. I'll be there. And, as they say, you can't please all of the people all of the time.

[Pokey]

I am a guitarist, and I must say, the music on Mental Jewelry and Throwing Copper is so elementary its not funny. Anyone with a couple months of guitar lessons (or self-teaching themselves for that time)could pretty much play any of these songs. So I don't think the music there is what you'd expect from more mature folks in their 30's.

That's true, but there seems to be a maturity about the album, it doesn't seem like the sort of thing that kids straight out of highschool usually make .. 18yr olds are generally going "la da da da, da da da da da, oo baby to my river, i just wanna hold you tight and love you all night".

[andthelettuce]

I guess mostly because the songs they're writing now is the stuff you'd expect from 18yr olds, and Mental Jewlry was more the word of guys in their mid 30s .. so that's part of it.

The lyrics may not be challenging as many ideas as they used to be, but I think it's the exact opposite. 18 year olds are kids who often are angry and trying to gain acceptance into society. 30 year olds should have found their place in society already, and Live has done that and embraced it.

[Pokey]

The lyrics may not be challenging as many ideas as they used to be, but I think it's the exact opposite. 18 year olds are kids who often are angry and trying to gain acceptance into society. 30 year olds should have found their place in society already, and Live has done that and embraced it.

Again that's true, but Mental Jewlry doesn't come off that way, I'd say the whole angst/angry and trying to gain acceptance into society fits in nicely with a lot of these silly little emo bands that are around now, MJ does have a maturity to it, it's more articulated. And it's fair enough that when you're 35 that you find peace and your place in society but to me I don't see how The River reflects this .. it just seems as though they have simplified everything to the point where they're now making the sort of music that you'd expect to find on a pop record of a band fresh out of high school.

[torcatofan]

...these silly little emo bands that are around now...

excellent

Ok. Back to the topic...

[mfitz804]

The lyrics may not be challenging as many ideas as they used to be, but I think it's the exact opposite. 18 year olds are kids who often are angry and trying to gain acceptance into society. 30 year olds should have found their place in society already, and Live has done that and embraced it.

Exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks buddy.

[Maggie]

Wow, that was one of the best posts I've ever read on this board. Can't really say much else. Very well-said. I agree with most of it.

Yes. thanks for that! It says everything I've been wanting to say for a long time now.

The lyrics may not be challenging as many ideas as they used to be, but I think it's the exact opposite. 18 year olds are kids who often are angry and trying to gain acceptance into society. 30 year olds should have found their place in society already, and Live has done that and embraced it.

[michael39]

here here...well spoken pizan0 and totally agree with ya

[LiveRoCkS77]

I guess mostly because the songs they're writing now is the stuff you'd expect from 18yr olds, and Mental Jewlry was more the word of guys in their mid 30s .. so that's part of it.

I completely disagree with you here. I think it's the exact opposite as well. Mental Jewelry is mature in a sense, but fits in perfectly with a group of intelligent young men searching for the answers to some of the things that confuse them.

It seems to me that you judge some of the new lyrics as if you have an exact interpretation for them. I gotta laugh at that.....sorry. what you interpret them as aren't necessarily what they mean. I agree that I'm not too fond of some of the lyrics from V or BOP as Mcpheezy pointed out to me in another thread. Some are simple and boring to come straight to the point.

But it seems thats the way things go as you get on with age. Things become simplified. You're not searching for those answers anymore. Many things that confused you before are much clearer 15 years later. Life becomes more about accepting what you've found to be an unchangeable reality.

Although many of you may view it as soft, Ed seems to be stuck in a place that involve the love he feels for his wife and children. They are what matters to him and many different aspects of love seem to be stemming from it. So he writes about what matters to him. It sounds simple because it is simple to him I guess. He's not about to write songs to appease you or me.

So I think it really comes down to one thing although it sounds kind of harsh.

Don't identify with it? Too bad, fuck off. Think it's gay? Find music that isn't....and fuck off. Can't respect his choice as an artist to write about what matters most to him......fuck off, twice.

Quit fucking whining already even. Yes, freedom of speech....blah blah blah blah blah. But have your say all you want and then....FUCK OFF. What's the sense in hanging around and discussing crap that doesn't appeal to you anymore? Get a life and let it go already. It's called growing up, take part.

If you don't like a particular car, do you stand around at the dealership for weeks on end, bitching at them to make a model resembling one they did 10 years ago? NO, you'd look like an idiot. And that's exactly what you whiners here look like now. People like me are laughing at how utterly stupid you are. Just can't move on and let it go. It's really very sad and pathetic. I'm not trying to insult you with that statement, it's fact. If you opened your eyes and were honest with yourselves, you'd see it plain as day.

[mrmcpheezy]

Nicely stated. I'll take a mediocre Live album over the best album of 98% of the "popular" artists out there, without a doubt.

Who fucking cares? Ok, live's music doesn't suck as much ass as most of the pop music currently being made. Wow. IMPRESSIVE. How about you do a little searching around and find some not-so-popular music to give a few listens to? There's tons of music out there, only about 2% of which becomes popular in mainstream america. Look around. Ask for recommendations. Something. It just seems like you're saying "well, I like this stuff better than the other music I hear on the radio, so I'm going to listen to it". That's bullshit.

[mrmcpheezy]

That didn't stop me from listening to Live all the time. I took the album for what it was, dissected it, took from it what I enjoyed and what was the essence of Live, and I moved on, waiting for more. Then, BOP: At this point, I was one of the only people I knew still listening to Live. Is this Live's best album? No. But it had sparks of genius that reaffirmed for me that this band was right for me. For those of you that don't agree, take one good listen to "Lighthouse" and you'll know what I mean. After V, I was weary, but that song alone made me realize that this band makes me feel emotions inside that I can't describe...that no other music does. No other band can make a rock song like that...period.

Its obvious that Live's gradual move towards a more laid-back, poppier sound is going to be even more pronounced in SFBM. But god damn, even if it sounds a bit poppier than what I usually listen to, no one else in music does it like Live. They just have a "sound" that can't be understood fully...you just feel it. Again, if you don't believe me, take a listen to the pre-chorus in "mystery," when ed sings, "oh, how it deepens"....that is Live. That pre-chorus is Live; that sound is the sound of the band that still inspires me to this day - they aren't afraid to talk about seemingly "corny" topics like love, they are positive, spiritual, and deep. (even if the lyrics don't seem that way sometimes) If that doesn't make sense to you, then perhaps Live is not the band that plays in your soul.

Do I think SFBM will be Live's best album? No, throwing copper is #1 for me. But do I think that I'd rather listen to anything Live puts out over 98% of the music out there? Yes, almost always. Because I have evolved and grown to love their change of sound, and I appreciate it for what it is. We'll never get another Throwing Copper - that was a stepping stone for 4 young guys; that's what came out of them in 1994....SFBM is from the same guys 12 years later. And somehow, they still find a way to blow my mind album after album...even if its just a few songs....

Sorry for the long post, kids. I needed to get that out. Enjoy the music.

How the fuck can you even make comments like this? There's so much fucking music you've never fucking heard, and yet you have the nerve to come out and say things like this. Do you really think you've even heard 98% of the music out there? Jesus fucking shit Christ. You like live, and that's fine, but I'm more than willing to bet that if you broadened your playlist a little bit you'd find something else that you like just as much - and realize that there's nothing special about the live's recent work. You've found a band that moves you, and that's great, but don't assume that they're the only four people in the world that can write moving music.


Maybe I'm making assumptions that I shouldn't, but it's fucking frustrating hearing all of you talk about how great live's music is when I'm pretty goddamn sure that your main basis of comparison is the other fucking crap on the radio.