i am no longer a fan of this band Options

[icewaterike]

many of the lyrics call to the listener to question teachings from religious leaders (i.e. churches) and many of the lyrics express a universal view of love and spirit and spirituality which is in direct conflict with your "there is only one correct path and it is the one that I believe is true" mentality. So, good luck...

Very well put. We all have our beliefs, and that is fine with me, but we must respect each other's right to question and challenge dogmatic principales (religious or not). This is how progress is made in the world.

For more information, refer to "The Beauty of Gray"

[Wambangalang]

i have already decided not to listen to live anymore.

just make sure if it accidently crosses your ears on the radio, that you lash your back with an olive branch!

no seriously, you still didnt answer my question. "yet I loved Jacob, but hated Esau; I made his mountains a waste, his heritage a desert for jackals, Malachai 1:3 As it is written: "I loved Jacob but hated Esau.", Romans 9:13
WHY did God hate Esau if indeed you say he loves everyone. Obviously he doesnt love everyone. He hates some people. He hates a lot of people. Im not attacking you, just curious

[LiveattheOasis]

Wambangalang, I can appreciate that our tiger friend's comments have come across as insulting to you, or just plain dumb, but I would ask you not to take the Bible out of context the way that it seems gotigrz has taken Live's lyrics out of context, or at least misunderstood him.

By your logic, I suppose in Luke 14:26 Jesus saying that to follow him one would have to hate his father and mother means we should all either take up arms against our parents or at least keep as much distance from them as we can. The verse you are referring comes directly out of God's choosing Jacob, the youngest, to carry the blessing and ultimately Christ's lineage instead of Esau. In Malachi 1:3 the point is to let Israel know how God has blessed them, even giving his blessing to a younger son (Israel, or Jacob) instead of Esau, whose descendants lived in the land of Edom.

I should hope that, though gotigrz statements may have come off wrong to many of you, that if you would not respect him, at least do not offend other people who may actually be Christians in turn. If we are to respect each other as individuals, and respond to each person according to who they are and what they believe, consider them. I am sure even those who are not Christians here can find wisdom in the statement, "Do unto to others as you would have them do unto you". Just because one person offends you, don't continue the trend by offending others as well.

[Kymra]

I think it's all been covered but let it be said that gogritz ( or whatever) taste has changed, or you have just realized that after "12 years" you are finally understanding Live as a band. Ed's been on a spirtual journey since the get-go, and I give him credit for exploring all options available to him.

My 'do you believe in God' thread pretty much summed up my beliefs ( or lack therof) in 'god' - I think it's nothing more than an outline of our moral compass being given a name or form.

Oh, and please don't say things like 'you will believe in God someday'... I don't plan on losing my mind or my intelligence anytime soon.

You really should go find a nice christian rock band to jamout to

p.s Don't you think the guys would get a hoot out of this thread??

[Wambangalang]

at least do not offend other people who may actually be Christians in turn. If we are to respect each other as individuals, and respond to each person according to who they are and what they believe, consider them.

i didnt know asking a question was insulting. I insulted him in other ways and im sure he can handle it. Im not sorry for making a querey about a certain verse in the bible, which you still havent really justified yet. God hated one half of a mothers womb, and not the other. Christians believe that the bible is the word of god and that everything it says is true. So therefore when god said "I...hated Esau", he literally did hate him. Therefore God is not only love, god is also wrath and hate and vengeance. Theres nothing wrong with that, I know many christians who fee this way. Thats a true christian, someone who's view of god isnt skewed by some romantic notion that god loves everyone. Because the bible is clear that he doesnt. This is why I respect these 'true' christians more than these new age Oprah-ists and people who believe in this pathetic notion of 'love is everything and everything is love and ladi di ladi da, because thats just an easy way out without giving yourself anything to sacrifice.

but religion, of any kind, just isnt for me

[GvB]

and people who believe in this pathetic notion of 'love is everything and everything is love and ladi di ladi da, because thats just an easy way out without giving yourself anything to sacrifice.

but religion, of any kind, just isnt for me

I think that believing that love is everything and everything is love and that God loves you is not easy at all!
If you do that then you meet such a lot of cynism of people who have given it up to believe in love, or never believed in love anyway (or even worse, started to believe in violence as a solution for a conflict or that the economy of the country they live in is the most important thing there is, more important than nature or other countries), that you really wonder if people really appreciate this planet and, if they believe in God, really realise what God is offering them!

Why do we destroy the most beautiful present we ever got, this world, with all the life (including ours) on and in it?
(By the way, pointing to others and blaming them and telling that everybody does it is in my opinion too easy).
If you believe in loving other people and loving this planet and all creatures on it and take it seriously, then you have a lot of things to do, and I really don't mean hugging and kissing everybody all the time, because then you are sure that everybody will get tired of you!

Things like: helping to protect plants and animals which otherwise die out, making sure that you buy apparates which not take too much electic energy and using stream which is from sources that don't damage this world even more, sticking up for, or even helping, people in difficult situations, taking action against poverty by buying Fair Trade products and have to defend yourself for that all the time because you are gonna be misunderstood.
And keeping your frustrations inside because you don't want to make the mistake to go and use violence too (thank God there is music and that I have friends who at least understand what I'm doing and why).

All I want to say is that believing in love is in my opinion not for softies, but you don't need to be holy for it.
Just ask yourself what you are doing and if you are prepared to offer your old way of life (partially) up.
And ask yourself if you can handle the comments of people that try to bring you down and try to tell you that it's insane what you are doing.
Ask if you can handle that you can't just buy everything you used to buy, because that doesn't fit with your new ideas of living your life in love (then you can't do it to buy products which are there because of child employment or products for which animals are abused or products for which workers don't get enough money to live from. If you love people and animals, then you just can't do that).
And you got to make sure that (and that's the hardest part, I think) you don't use violence, neither by mistake nor because you feel driven to it. Even if someone else does you or your family or friends wrong.
I think that that is living in love.

Is it still too easy for you and do you really don't have to sacrifice anything for it if you really want to live your life in love?

By the way: if you believed that God loves you, would you don't mind to let God down?
Don't you mind to let down someone who or a spirit that loves you?

GvB.

This post has been edited by GvB: Nov 17 2006, 10:45 am

[Wambangalang]

you spend time on your posts, ill give you that. But you completely missed my point.

[GvB]

you spend time on your posts, ill give you that. But you completely missed my point.

In answer on the God who seems to hate: I don't think that God hates people, I think that he hates the negative things people do.

I don't think that God hated the whole Esau, but that Esau did him harm or disappointed God.
And therefor he wanted to teach Esau a lesson, without losing his love for him.


GvB.

[Wambangalang]

god chose to hate esau and love jaccob before they were born

[Wambangalang]

anyway who cares its all just semantics. I really wish i could see proof of god and then i'd be a believer. Maybe when i have a daughter...

[Nats]

I feel two things for the owner of this thread

The greatest of respect that you have the courage of your convictions, there are many people who call themselves “Christians” out of convenience and not belief, you clearly are a true believer and that in its self is special

I also feel great sympathy for you, that because of these believes you can not, and will probably not in this lifetime ever feel the total sense of freedom, joy and utter peace that comes with an understanding of sprit that goes beyond any organized religion and is only something that you realize with an open heart, mind and sprit.

I hope you find a band that rocks your world within your believes, to replace Live (though I cant imagine such a band could be real!) and I wish you the best of luck during your spiritual journey, who knows, one day you might reach a place where you do understand the lyrics, not as being against God, but simply a reflection of a Journey to God!

[Alex]

You can't believe that such a band could be real????


Gah. There is music that is far better than Live, if only you would approach the discovery of them with an open heart, mind and spirit.

[GvB]

anyway who cares its all just semantics.

I think you are right in this.

It's all symbolic (just like the story on God creating the world in seven days, that wasn't litterlarly too), and that the evangelist took just two boys' names and gave one, Esau, the bad character and Jacob the good character and that the evangelist wanted to make clear that God already is able to know with what kind of character it goes wrong and wanted to make us clear that we can know that too.

So that we can know that if we gonna develop the bad part of us, then it goes wrong with us.

For the record: I believe in God, because I can't imagine that everything came to existence and that I survived everything I have survived without God.

Alex: you are entitled to have your opinion, but, without wanting to be offensive to you: why don't you go to the fansites of the bands or artists who are better in giving you what you want or need than Live?

It's very annoying to read on a FANsite of one of your most favorite bands that someone says that there is far better music then the music that you love so much and rely on so much.
Live is not the only band that I love, but I love every band that I love for another reason and these reasons give them emotional value for me.

Sorry to start this discussion again, but saying that music IS good or bad or Is better or worse is already very annoying, because everybody feels different about that.
Music can appeal to someones deepest feelings and thoughts, and which music that is for you depends on you, what it is for me depends on me what is is for everybody else deepends on everybody self.

I would like to see people type: I think this ...., I feel that.... my opinion is.... about live.
Instead of Live is.... music is ....

Sometimes I wonder if this is really a Live FANsite.

GvB.

[Alex]

Being a fan of a band doesn't mean you have to love everything they do... and if you really do love music then I'd hope that you have more than one band that you are a big fan of. It seems like a lot of people here listen solely to Live, and sometimes a few other similar bands.

Anyway, not that I need to justify myself to you anyway, GvB; I'm here because three of Live's albums, to me, are amazing. Though I do connect with them emotionally, the music on these albums is well written, and for a band such as Live, unique. I joined this board just after its original inception. I was a huge fan of Live at the time. But a ratio of 3 good albums to 3 bad albums isn't too wonderful in my opinion. So when I say there is better music than Live, I'm right, and you're ignorant. Don't get me wrong- Live can still be your favourite band, and you can enjoy them as much as you want, but just because you like it doesn't make it good.

I've seen a few posts about 'opening your mind' lately- sometimes in regards to Live's new material... and to be honest, I think it's quite a stupid comment in that context. Even if you have an open mind, you can still disregard things you don't like. Having an open mind doesn't mean that you don't have an opnion. And also, approaching music by a band you know and love will ALWAYS have expectations and pre-conceived notions, no matter how hard you try not to have them.

Enjoy your weetbix.

[GvB]

[quote name='Alex' date='Nov 19 2006, 3:07 pm' post='23012']
Being a fan of a band doesn't mean you have to love everything they do... [/quote]

No, but if they ever made songs that you really loved, then you can at least show some respect to them, even if you don't think that the newer albums are as well written as the older.
They ever gave you something that you loved very much, thank them for that, but accept it and let them go if they don't give you what you want anymore.
And let the people who love the newer Live be, and stop telling them that the newer Live sucks, because to for example Beau99, Lien, Rocknerd and me the newer Live doesn't suck at all.

[quote name='Alex' date='Nov 19 2006, 3:07 pm' post='23012']
Anyway, not that I need to justify myself to you anyway, GvB; I'm here because three of Live's albums, to me, are amazing. Though I do connect with them emotionally, the music on these albums is well written, and for a band such as Live, unique. I joined this board just after its original inception. I was a huge fan of Live at the time. [/quote]

So then you must understand what Live can mean to people.
No, you don't have to justify yourself, but I would like it if you stop judging me and other people who do like the newer albums and judging Live for making albums you don't like.

[quote name='Alex' date='Nov 19 2006, 3:07 pm' post='23012']
But a ratio of 3 good albums to 3 bad albums isn't too wonderful in my opinion. So when I say there is better music than Live, I'm right, and you're ignorant. [/quote]

But the question of good or bad music depends on what the listener feels about it, I think.
In my opinion Live has made 3 good albums, although there is 1 album which is too painfull to me to listen too (because of bringing back old pain to me) and 4 fantastic albums!
If everybody feels the same about music, then the world gets boring.
What about people who love totally something else like hiphop, r&B, classical music?
Are they all ignorant?
The people that you love, do they all love the first 3 albums of Live?
If they don't: are they all ignorant?

[quote name='Alex' date='Nov 19 2006, 3:07 pm' post='23012']
Don't get me wrong- Live can still be your favourite band, and you can enjoy them as much as you want, but just because you like it doesn't make it good. [/quote]

It might be that it doesn't make it good to YOU, but it's awesome to me!

[quote name='Alex' date='Nov 19 2006, 3:07 pm' post='23012']
I've seen a few posts about 'opening your mind' lately- sometimes in regards to Live's new material... [/quote]

You can like it if you are open for it, but if you are not, well then it doesn't speak to you.
Can be.
But that doesn't say something about being ignorant or not.
Some music fits better with you because of your background and your character, but that doesn't mean that the music you don't like is per definition bad.
It's bad to you, but good to someone else.

[quote name='Alex' date='Nov 19 2006, 3:07 pm' post='23012']
and to be honest, I think it's quite a stupid comment in that context. [/quote]

No, its not to me, but you don't have to open your mind for it if you don't want to, or are unable to.
then it just doesn't fit with you.


[quote name='Alex' date='Nov 19 2006, 3:07 pm' post='23012']
Even if you have an open mind, you can still disregard things you don't like. [/quote]

So, why don't you?
Why do you spend so much time in telling everybody that you don't like the newer albums?
Meanwhile you can listen to the older ones and enjoy them!
Or enjoy the other music that you like even better!

[quote name='Alex' date='Nov 19 2006, 3:07 pm' post='23012']
Having an open mind doesn't mean that you don't have an opnion.
[/quote]

Did I ever say that?

[quote name='Alex' date='Nov 19 2006, 3:07 pm' post='23012'] And also, approaching music by a band you know and love will ALWAYS have expectations and pre-conceived notions, no matter how hard you try not to have them.[/quote]

But that doesn't mean that you have to work off on that band and on people who do like the albums that you dislike.
Okay, I've worked off on Secret Samadhi myself and I regret that now, because I've hurt people with that.
I let another discussion get out of hand.

[quote name='Alex' date='Nov 19 2006, 3:07 pm' post='23012']
Enjoy your weetbix.
[/quote]

I don't need weetbix, I'm addicted to music, I'm gonna check out Songs Black mountain now.
That album makes me feel so happy!

GvB.

This post has been edited by GvB: Nov 19 2006, 4:44 pm