i am no longer a fan of this band Options

[FishOutaWater]

"from the mouth of a baby
will come the world-saving words
that will save us all
and from the lungs of a child
will come the everlasting breath of god" - brothers unaware
"heard alot of talk about this jesus
a man of love, a man of strength
but what a man was two thousand years ago
means nothing at all to me today" - operation spirit

how can anyone say both of these statements? i think the first song is speaking about Jesus. and if so, how can you proclaim that Jesus is the baby that came into the world to save us all,.... and then claim that He means nothing? HOW???!!!

First of, you are quoting from the thew first album. Ed has been on a path, a progression reflected in the development of his views expressed on each of the albums. It is true that he was a cynic on the first album and a little bit on TC. By TDTH, he was in full blown searching. From V through SFBM he found some answers that work for him.

Secondly, I don't interpret those lyrics you quoted in quite the same way you do. Open your mind and look at the lyrics of that song from beginning to end. Up until the last line o fthe song, Ed writes about letting go of taught notions of Jesus and your spirit and soul. He says Jesus may have been telling you about your higher self but today, from what we are taught as children by our leaders, he only lives inside a prayer. We are only taught what Jesus was 2,000 years ago. But what does he mean for our pain today? Throughout the song, Ed says "let it go". Then in the last line of the song, consistent with the very good explanation of "I Alone" above, Ed says "and let's get it back, let's get it back together". Isn't that beautiful. Release Jesus from the past. Release him from only living inside a prayer. Let go of what you were told about him and, together, let's all get it back right now. To me, that is profound and beautiful.

I look at all of the lyrics from MJ and TC from the perspective of Ed talking about finding the truth for yourself and not relying on what you are taught by those who purport to have a monopoly on the truth as the absolute truth. Those are the teachers that will leave you chained to fate.

As for the other lyric you quoted about the ransom, if you read carefully, I think that the ransom is connected to the line about "me", not "Christ".

[Senghe]

"from the mouth of a baby
will come the world-saving words
that will save us all
and from the lungs of a child
will come the everlasting breath of god" - brothers unaware
"heard alot of talk about this jesus
a man of love, a man of strength
but what a man was two thousand years ago
means nothing at all to me today" - operation spirit

how can anyone say both of these statements? i think the first song is speaking about Jesus. and if so, how can you proclaim that Jesus is the baby that came into the world to save us all,.... and then claim that He means nothing? HOW???!!!

Firstly you've totally misinterpreted Operation Spirit by taking lyrics out of context - take the song as a whole and you may just get it. I don't know where to begin to explain to you that it means exactly the opposite of what you think it does without banging my head in a wall.

And anyway, writing a song that contains an iconic religious character like Jesus donesn't make the author a christian otherwise you'd be having a bit of shock with bands like Cradle Of Filth. Live did a song called TBD (standing for Tibetan Book of the Dead). It doesn't make the band Tibetan Buddhists either.

You are aware that the whole album Mental Jewelry was written about and inspired by an Indian philosopher, Jiddu Krishnamurti? I suggest you do a little research on the man and it may throw a whole new light on Live's music and spiritual message for you. It won't make you like them again (if you're as firmly stuck in the narrow spiritual enclave you appear to be, you might feel a fool for ever liking them and thinking the band have any christian leanings at all), but it should give you some perspective.

[gotigrz]

Maybe he's saying that he was a man of love and strength yet in today's world people have forgotten these virtues. I wouldn't take it too literally, and Ed can be a complex guy

see, that's just it. i take my relationship w/ Jesus Christ very seriously. and, for someone to be so ambigious about what they are talking about is very disturbing,.... especially when they are talking about God. i didn't take ed's lyrics literally for the first 12 or so years that i listened to Live. i just liked the music. but, once i really listened to what it is that ed is sayin'.... it hurt.

You know what I think?
I think that Ed wants to warn us.
Sadly there are people in this world that do as if they believe in God or Allah, to make people following them.
And there are people in this world who are prepared to follow anyone who mentions God or Allah.
Because they think: Hey, I hear that person say "God", or I hear that person say "Allah", that person believes and so that person must be okay! Let's follow that person!

bingo! when i first started listening to Live i thought,... "hey, they are at least talking about Jesus and God and all that .... so, they must be a good band." now, i never thought about "following" ed, but i can't deny that i believe that's what he's trying to get people to do.

What these people don't (want to) know is that that person who mentions God or Allah, actually wants to get the power, or a whole lot of money or both power and money.
And that is what Ed is warning us for in for example "Selling the drama"

how can you say he's warning us? he clearly states "to Christ: a cross and to me: a chair" and from that chair he'll make the money. if i'm seeing this wrong..... please,....please show me how.

i use to make the excuse that maybe ed isn't singing from his point of view, but instead, the point of view from society. but, when he starts telling people to think of the budha under his tree (love shines) when you want to find love......well,.... i'm sorry, but i don't follow budha.

[FishOutaWater]

Firstly you've totally misinterpreted Operation Spirit by taking lyrics out of context - take the song as a whole and you may just get it. I don't know where to begin to explain to you that it means exactly the opposite of what you think it does without banging my head in a wall.

And anyway, writing a song that contains an iconic religious character like Jesus donesn't make the author a christian otherwise you'd be having a bit of shock with bands like Cradle Of Filth. Live did a song called TBD (standing for Tibetan Book of the Dead). It doesn't make the band Tibetan Buddhists either.

You are aware that the whole album Mental Jewelry was written about and inspired by an Indian philosopher, Jiddu Krishnamurti? I suggest you do a little research on the man and it may throw a whole new light on Live's music and spiritual message for you. It won't make you like them again (if you're as firmly stuck in the narrow spiritual enclave you appear to be, you might feel a fool for ever liking them and thinking the band have any christian leanings at all), but it should give you some perspective.

Agreed... completely. I've read Krishnamurti after hearing about him from interviews with Ed, and it shed an entirely new light on many of the lyics for me. Especially I Alone. After I heard an interview with Ed where he said that I Alone was inspired by Krishnamurti, within a few days I read someone by Krishnamurti about what it means to be totally "alone". Changed my whole perception of the song.

Here is a post that I wrote back in May that describes this revelation I had:

"I listened to an interview with Ed once in which he discussed I Alone and he mentioned that he was reading alot of Krishnamurti at the time and the lyric "and the greatest of teachers won't hesitate to leave you there, by yourself, chained to fate" pertains to the fact that you must investigate and discover spirituality for yourself and not just rely on the "truths" told to you by others such as so-called religious leaders. The lyrics to I Alone always challenged me because they relate in large part to the concept that I just described, but I always thought that the lyrics "I Alone love you" was simply saying that I alone love you -- that is -- I am the only one that loves you. I always viewed that passionately delivered lyric to be a love seronade to someone and it resonated with me as an emotional line that someone would deliver to a girlfriend or something.

Here is a quote from Jiddu Krishnamurti:

"Aloneness Is Not Loneliness

Though we are all human beings, we have built walls between ourselves and our neighbors through nationalism, through race, caste, and class—which again breeds isolation, loneliness.

Now a mind that is caught in loneliness, in this state of isolation, can never possibly understand what religion is. It can believe, it can have certain theories, concepts, formulas, it can try to identify itself with that which it calls God; but religion, it seems to me, has nothing whatsoever to do with any belief, with any priest, with any church or so-called sacred book. The state of the religious mind can be understood only when we begin to understand what beauty is; and the understanding of beauty must be approached through total aloneness. Only when the mind is completely alone can it know what is beauty, and not in any other state.

Aloneness is obviously not isolation, and it is not uniqueness. To be unique is merely to be exceptional in some way, whereas to be completely alone demands extraordinary sensitivity, intelligence, understanding. To be completely alone implies that the mind is free of every kind of influence and is therefore uncontaminated by society; and it must be alone to understand what is religion—which is to find out for oneself whether there is something immortal, beyond time.

The Book of Life - December 2"

And here is another one:
"Only in Aloneness Is There Innocence

Most of us are never alone. You may withdraw into the mountains and live as a recluse, but when you are physically by yourself, you will have with you all your ideas, your experiences, your traditions, your knowledge of what has been. The Christian monk in a monastery cell is not alone; he is with his conceptual Jesus, with his theology, with the beliefs and dogmas of his particular conditioning. Similarly, the sannyasi in India who withdraws from the world and lives in isolation is not alone, for he too lives with his memories.

I am talking of an aloneness in which the mind is totally free from the past, and only such a mind is virtuous, for only in this aloneness is there innocence. Perhaps you will say, "That is too much to ask. One cannot live like that in this chaotic world, where one has to go to the office every day, earn a livelihood, bear children, endure the nagging of one's wife or husband, and all the rest of it." But I think what is being said is directly related to everyday life and action; otherwise, it has no value at all. You see, out of this aloneness comes a virtue which is virile and which brings an extraordinary sense of purity and gentleness. It doesn't matter if one makes mistakes; that is of very little importance. What matters is to have this feeling of being completely alone, uncontaminated, for it is only such a mind that can know or be aware of that which is beyond the word, beyond the name, beyond all the projections of imagination.

The Book of Life - December 4"


In view of the fact that Ed was influence by Krishnamurti at the time, I think the lyric "I Alone" is not about what I used to think it was about at all! If you do a Google search on some of Krishnamurti's writings you will see that the concept of I Alone means to Krishnamurti, as described in the quote above something like this: "To be completely alone implies that the mind is free of every kind of influence and is therefore uncontaminated by society; and it must be alone to understand what is religion—which is to find out for oneself whether there is something immortal, beyond time." One of Krishnamurti's principles is that the only way to reach spiritual liberation and enlightenment is to first free one's self entirely from the thousands of years of bias and belief and ethnocentricity and the dogma of others, etc. Once you are "Alone" without those influences, then you can truly love. Then you can truly find "religion". I Alone doesn't just mean "just me - I'm the one that loves you" or "I'm physically alone". It is much more profound.

In light of that, I think one might hear that song completely differently and read the lyrics in a new light. And it is a million times more powerful than just professing your love for a girl."

[gotigrz]

In light of that, I think one might hear that song completely differently and read the lyrics in a new light. And it is a million times more powerful than just professing your love for a girl."

i agree, i never thought it was about a man and a woman... i don't think hardly any of his songs are.

bottome line... does anyone think that Jesus Christ is ed's personal Lord and Saviour?

This post has been edited by gotigrz: Nov 13 2006, 3:05 pm

[brandedwendy]

if you're done with the band because of your beliefs, then move on. nothing I will say can possibly change your mind. nothing.

so I ain't gonna bother.

have fun with the rest of the bands you might like...

[Wambangalang]

a-huh! In all his glory, god has taken ed's ability to write deeply profound lyrics away from him, as punishment for his meandering in other religions.

God is great!

God is great!

God is great!

[Wambangalang]

maybe we should ask ted haggard what he thinks about the whole issue...?


oooh, cheap shot

[gotigrz]

If it makes you feel better, in concert Ed changes the Jesus line in "Operation Spirit" to Buddha.

no, that doesn't make me feel better. that, to me, means that ed sees Jesus and buddha as the same. and, i don't. buddha didn't die on the cross and shed his blood to cleanse me from my sins.

God is a very angry person if my memories of sunday school serve me correctly. Somehting about smighting the children in the town and heads rolling and teeth gnashing. Always with the wrath. God hates a lot of people.

wow.

it's sad that you feel that way. God hates no one. God hates sin. God knew that from the time we were born that we would sin, and once we sinned we were as far away from Him as we would ever be, and that the only way for us to ever be back w/ him was to sacrifice. but the sacrifice had to be perfect. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, and He knew that.

"I listened to an interview with Ed once in which he discussed I Alone and he mentioned that he was reading alot of Krishnamurti at the time and the lyric "and the greatest of teachers won't hesitate to leave you there, by yourself, chained to fate" pertains to the fact that you must investigate and discover spirituality for yourself and not just rely on the "truths" told to you by others such as so-called religious leaders.

what's the difference in me reading the Bible, the Word of God, for guidance and truth and ed reading some book, by a man that most people have never even heard of, for the same reason.

This post has been edited by gotigrz: Nov 13 2006, 4:37 pm

[jaybb]

The question remains, however, that what gives the book that Ed reads by a philospher any more credence than the book that you read? They are both books. Both without any physical evidence to support their claims. The only difference is one is far older and takes a much more authoritarian point of view.

[crustyclown80]

Everyone should know by now bringing God into a discussion is never a good idea.

THERE IS NO GOD

[HiItsNino]

This is why "religion" (not to be confused with Christianity or spirituality) scares the crap out of me. You have people who claim to know that their god is the only god, yet they cannot prove it. They'll just tell you "I know by my faith". If you do know by your faith then "I Alone love you (or should I say you, alone love him)", so you know how pointless it is to profess to know the trueth. So why would such a person who knows the one true answer be so offened by what Ed thinks unless that person really does question their own faith?

In the Bible, Christ uttered not one single word about drinking, drugs, abortion, homosexuals, the death penalty yet modern day "christianity" would lead us all to believe that he did in fact preach against all of these things. If you were truely interested in unlocking Christs wisdom you'd be more willing to accept what he actually said, not what others have told you he has said, and definately not what a religion has told you he said.

For me, studying Krishnamurti actually helped me understand Christianity in a new way, after years of southern baptist brain washing. Christianity is about showing kindness and compassion to people. Not questioning their motives, or judging their lyrics, or condemning their practices. Its about "suffering the wound, never turning from love, never turning to hate". Its quite simple, thats all there is to it.

[gotigrz]

The question remains, however, that what gives the book that Ed reads by a philospher any more credence than the book that you read? They are both books. Both without any physical evidence to support their claims. The only difference is one is far older and takes a much more authoritarian point of view.

please don't compare The Holy Bible to some book by some guy, or any other book for that matter. The Bible is WAY more than a book. the Bible isn't a book of one mans opinion. the Bible is the book of prophets that were told before they happened.

and as for :

Everyone should know by now bringing God into a discussion is never a good idea.

THERE IS NO GOD

i hate that you feel this way now, but you will believe in God some day.

i truly do love you all as Jesus taught us to do. and, i debated on whether to come back and have this discussion or not, but i'm glad i did. i hope i didn't make anyone mad, but i really do hope that any true Christians that read this thread will sit back and think about what they are really listening to when they pop a Live CD in.

good bye.

[beau99]

i hope i didn't make anyone mad, but i really do hope that any true Christians that read this thread will sit back and think about what they are really listening to when they pop a Live CD in.

I do.

I hear positive messages.

[HiItsNino]

LOL...thats too funny. He pops in here to tell us all that he knows more then us and that he loves us, and wants to warn us that we don't know what we are listening to when we pop in a CD. We are the sheep, not him...lol.

please don't compare The Holy Bible to some book by some guy, or any other book for that matter. The Bible is WAY more than a book. the Bible isn't a book of one mans opinion. the Bible is the book of prophets that were told before they happened.

and as for :
i hate that you feel this way now, but you will believe in God some day.

i truly do love you all as Jesus taught us to do. and, i debated on whether to come back and have this discussion or not, but i'm glad i did. i hope i didn't make anyone mad, but i really do hope that any true Christians that read this thread will sit back and think about what they are really listening to when they pop a Live CD in.

good bye.