Chris Shinn on Fronting Live: ‘I’m Just Embarrassed...." Options

[Hoodstock]

This statement from tha article was interesting:

It’s insane to think the version of Live on tour now doesn’t have a single person from your lineup of Live, which was out just a few years ago.
Yeah. It really is.

With Live nothing seems insane at this point!

[JonSnow]

That was the exciting time. That’s what I was sold on. But I came to find out it was all about making money for them. That’s really what was going on.

Don't get me wrong... I'm all for making money. As much as possible, actually. But not at the expense of the very thing that could go the furthest toward making that happen. And certainly not at the expense of being a decent person. But hey, I guess that makes me naïve.

[chazeye]

I agree with Orion0767 on this based on everything I’ve read and heard over the years. It really seems like PD and CG are getting screwed if it’s true Ed fired them in favor of his cronies. As a (prior?) fan of this band, I have zero interest in seeing Ed play shows as Live without the original members. It’s just meaningless and doesn’t resonate with me at all. I still don’t understand how and why Ed has so much control and a disproportionate ownership stake. Wasn’t this originally even with a 25% piece for each of the four members?

Anyway, the Shinn interview was enlightening. I respect that guy and they handled things so poorly with him. He’s a talented dude and The Turn was a legit good album.

Everything about how this band has so poorly mismanaged its career has been hard to watch unfold. Embarrassing and pathetic. I hope someday the four of them act like men and figure it out. But the relationships seem so broken that I’m not holding my breath. Maybe things will change over time.

This post has been edited by chazeye: Nov 2 2022, 10:32 pm

[JonSnow]

The stuff about Patrick... I felt that on a personal level. It's almost always the bass players getting the shittiest end of any shit stick. Drummers too, but not as much as the bass players. We just want to play and everyone else just wants to fucking play around.

[LiveForNow]

Here is the conclusion I've jumped to, based on Gracey's podcast interview and this interview. Gracey said that when Ed returned, Ed got 40% of Live, CT got 30%, and CG and PD each got 15%. Gracey said he voted with Ed to kick CT out. Chris said in the interview "I think that Chad Taylor, being the businessman that he is, saved his own ass and got out." So my guess is once CG voted to fire CT, CT sold his stake to Ed, who then fired CG and PD.

The info we have that CG and PD were fired was that Ed told Thorne the story of how he fired them, who told Chris, who told The Rolling Stone. With no official communication from the band, this third-hand account is probably our strongest account.

[gerrycan70]

The timing of this article is a hatchet job!

The million dollar question is WHO poked Rolling Stone and said hey I think you should randomly do an interview with Shinn

I wish I could say more because there is more, but I can't.

What I will say, however, is after 4 years being in a band there is ZERO excuses for still having lyrics at your feet on stage!


What an absolute shit show.... if only Netflix could see the value in a Some Kind Of Monster 2 starring.....

[Bremang]

The one time I met Chris Shinn - he was hanging out at the railing after a show on the Summerland tour. He seemed like a decent guy. I honestly felt like he was loving every minute of it. It was a cool experience to have a conversation with him.

The first time I heard the debut of Siren's call, I was very excited to see whether Chris could hold a candle to Ed - something that seemed impossible at the time. I'm a fan of The Turn, and I always felt bad for Chris after hearing his podcast about CCP mistreating him during his tenure, and how he was erased from the band's history.



Even with all this, and letting this article soak in, as these new details come to light, I have to re-assess what Chris Shinn was to the band.



I now think a lot of Chris' beef is completely uncalled for.



First off - Chris admits to entering Live by agreeing to exploit Ed, and exploit Live's most beautiful songs - for the sole purpose of a quick cash grab. He was complicit in attempting to place ***re-recorded*** Live hits into commercials, by mimicking Ed's vocals, and by pretending these were the genuine Throwing Copper recordings from the 90's. Talk about slimy, if not sacrilegious! my god.


Could you even imagine, right after the break up, if Ed tried to re-record the songs in the studio just to put them in commercials for quick cash - just to cut out CCP. This board and the fanbase would have had every pitchfork out ready to murder Ed. It would have been mayhem. But when Chris does it, not a single question mark from the collective fanbase?



Chris says these recordings grew into a new Live project, and it raised questions about whether they were doing the right thing. Looking back, I think Chris had no business being the lead singer of Live. We've heard the arguments before - obviously Chris would be seen as an imposter by a large margin of Live fans. The Turn for sure stands as a work of art, but many agree it's just not Live. The other options, from an artistic standpoint, were so much better. It could have been called anything else and this label would have been accepted by the whole fan base. Instead, CCP chose to create division. Even The Gracious Few could have been assigned for The Turn, and it would have made for an ingenious concept. CCP could have been the "few" as they collabed with a new lead singer on each forthcoming album and tour.


Chris admitted to being closer friends with Ed, then he was with CCP. He said he and Ed would go out and have a great time, on a somewhat regular basis there for a bit - and pay for each others drinks etc.

The moment Ed was at odds with CCP, Chris took the opportunity to turn his back on Ed completely. Chris just took over the frontman role of Live without a single word to his "friend." Could you imagine your friend stealing your lifelong band and trying to steal your image for money? Chris admits knowing that Ed would never have been cool with it. Then Chris rationalizes it by saying Ed and CCP were just emotionally stunted because they were famous growing up. Total utter betrayal and narcissistic behavior. This should not go unchecked.




This article also reinforces the idea that Chris did not care deeply about the art that was Live. Sure, Chris had "fun." But Chris was a casual fan of the radio hits. He was not a true fan. He couldn't remember the lyrics to I alone! Cringeworthy. He didn't want to play track 12. He thought that we, the fans, wouldn't even know the song, lol! Chris admits to having no idea who Jerry Harrison was. Chris admits to being the reason that Live had shallow, unchanging setlists! Chris couldn't even sing into the microphone! Absolutely amateurish. He didn't have the stature of a lead singer for an amazing big band. And he was often times awkward in interviews. These traits are collectively deal breakers to anyone who wants to see Live's art honored.





So then what is this complaining from Chris Shinn really about? Chris said that merely hearing Lightning Crashes or a live song on the radio "was the most painful thing. It's the trauma of having all these awesome memories that are now just scars. They bring up massive amounts of pain."

One of Chris's complaints is that he was "gaslit" because he wanted to start a side band and Chad wanted Chris to stay in Live, by saying CCP would be Chris's band for solo projects. How can this be considered gaslighting? Chris literally threatened to leave the band, and then accuses Chad of gaslighting by asking Chris to stay? I mean, the hypocrisy is pretty stark here. Chris even said he always knew Ed would replace him eventually. Where is the deception here? That is not gaslighting. This actually just makes Chris sound pretty stupid.


Another chief complaint is that Chris accuses CCP of removing The Turn from streaming sites. Chris admits that he is perplexed by this decision. However, it's pretty darn obvious that Ed would require removing The Turn as a condition to returning to the band. What should Chris expect after betraying Ed so blatantly?


After winning the Live lottery and having undeservedly been thrust onto the throne for a Live album and a world tour, why is Chris Shinn butthurt even in the slightest? I think we have to notice what Chris has been consistently after his entire career. It seems that Chris has always wanted his songs to become huge and mainstream. Imagine being so close, and instead of Chris, his contemporaries and friends were becoming stars all around him. Blind Melon. Live. Thorne. Chris admits that even his own bandmates would leave him and score big opportunities with other bands and artists.

Chris' career was basically put to sleep after the turn of the millennium, until suddenly he had one more shot at getting big. He hoped Live and The Turn would be a success and was surprised that it flopped. Unrealistic expectations. Once Live hit their stride on tour, Chris was ready to take another stab at stardom with a 2nd record in Live. When he was fired from the band, his dream fizzled out once again, and Chris admits he immediately entered into a depression. Might Chris be the anxious rich kid living in a bubble with delusions of grandeur after all?
The truth is likely that Chris' music was never good enough to make him a huge star. He never wrote a song that was good enough for the world to adore, like his rock star friends managed to do. It's no wonder he has a history of his band mates jumping ship. Everyone wants to be part of a winning team. I say this with full appreciation for his input on The Turn. I also feel happy for Chris' future. He now has Live on his resume, a brand new article in Rolling Stone, and a decent new single with a good music video on youtube, and an album being mastered. If his art is true, I hope he pulls out a grand slam.


I might be alone in my assessment, but if anyone else agrees, we may have a unified theory.

[Bremang]

The timing of this article is a hatchet job!

The million dollar question is WHO poked Rolling Stone and said hey I think you should randomly do an interview with Shinn

I wish I could say more because there is more, but I can't.

What I will say, however, is after 4 years being in a band there is ZERO excuses for still having lyrics at your feet on stage!


What an absolute shit show.... if only Netflix could see the value in a Some Kind Of Monster 2 starring.....

Well it is part of a series that is totally applicable to Shinn. The timing couldn't be better because without the recent events, Chris wouldn't have revealed much of what he said.

[gerrycan70]

Well it is part of a series that is totally applicable to Shinn. The timing couldn't be better because without the recent events, Chris wouldn't have revealed much of what he said.

I will say this, I found Chris to be an absolutely lovely in person, gentleman.

I just think, like anything, there are always two sides to any story.

There's never a dull moment in Live thus my Metallica reference, could you imagine a Netflix doco on the history of Live.

At the show I was present at, there were definitely some weird vibes post-show, it was the last time he ever played with them ( or 2nd last show) I captured some brilliant photos of him that night, which I'll always treasure.

[Hoodstock]

Don't get me wrong... I'm all for making money. As much as possible, actually. But not at the expense of the very thing that could go the furthest toward making that happen. And certainly not at the expense of being a decent person. But hey, I guess that makes me naïve.

Chris shared The Turn was simply rushed "propaganda" created to help sell tickets for shows. CCP reportedly didn't really care about the album or its success.

Feel bad for everyone that went all in on that album and showed up to shows in corn starch. It was never about the fans. It was never about the music.

[mattyeagles]

The one time I met Chris Shinn - he was hanging out at the railing after a show on the Summerland tour. He seemed like a decent guy. I honestly felt like he was loving every minute of it. It was a cool experience to have a conversation with him.

The first time I heard the debut of Siren's call, I was very excited to see whether Chris could hold a candle to Ed - something that seemed impossible at the time. I'm a fan of The Turn, and I always felt bad for Chris after hearing his podcast about CCP mistreating him during his tenure, and how he was erased from the band's history.
Even with all this, and letting this article soak in, as these new details come to light, I have to re-assess what Chris Shinn was to the band.
I now think a lot of Chris' beef is completely uncalled for.



First off - Chris admits to entering Live by agreeing to exploit Ed, and exploit Live's most beautiful songs - for the sole purpose of a quick cash grab. He was complicit in attempting to place ***re-recorded*** Live hits into commercials, by mimicking Ed's vocals, and by pretending these were the genuine Throwing Copper recordings from the 90's. Talk about slimy, if not sacrilegious! my god.
Could you even imagine, right after the break up, if Ed tried to re-record the songs in the studio just to put them in commercials for quick cash - just to cut out CCP. This board and the fanbase would have had every pitchfork out ready to murder Ed. It would have been mayhem. But when Chris does it, not a single question mark from the collective fanbase?
Chris says these recordings grew into a new Live project, and it raised questions about whether they were doing the right thing. Looking back, I think Chris had no business being the lead singer of Live. We've heard the arguments before - obviously Chris would be seen as an imposter by a large margin of Live fans. The Turn for sure stands as a work of art, but many agree it's just not Live. The other options, from an artistic standpoint, were so much better. It could have been called anything else and this label would have been accepted by the whole fan base. Instead, CCP chose to create division. Even The Gracious Few could have been assigned for The Turn, and it would have made for an ingenious concept. CCP could have been the "few" as they collabed with a new lead singer on each forthcoming album and tour.
Chris admitted to being closer friends with Ed, then he was with CCP. He said he and Ed would go out and have a great time, on a somewhat regular basis there for a bit - and pay for each others drinks etc.

The moment Ed was at odds with CCP, Chris took the opportunity to turn his back on Ed completely. Chris just took over the frontman role of Live without a single word to his "friend." Could you imagine your friend stealing your lifelong band and trying to steal your image for money? Chris admits knowing that Ed would never have been cool with it. Then Chris rationalizes it by saying Ed and CCP were just emotionally stunted because they were famous growing up. Total utter betrayal and narcissistic behavior. This should not go unchecked.
This article also reinforces the idea that Chris did not care deeply about the art that was Live. Sure, Chris had "fun." But Chris was a casual fan of the radio hits. He was not a true fan. He couldn't remember the lyrics to I alone! Cringeworthy. He didn't want to play track 12. He thought that we, the fans, wouldn't even know the song, lol! Chris admits to having no idea who Jerry Harrison was. Chris admits to being the reason that Live had shallow, unchanging setlists! Chris couldn't even sing into the microphone! Absolutely amateurish. He didn't have the stature of a lead singer for an amazing big band. And he was often times awkward in interviews. These traits are collectively deal breakers to anyone who wants to see Live's art honored.
So then what is this complaining from Chris Shinn really about? Chris said that merely hearing Lightning Crashes or a live song on the radio "was the most painful thing. It's the trauma of having all these awesome memories that are now just scars. They bring up massive amounts of pain."

One of Chris's complaints is that he was "gaslit" because he wanted to start a side band and Chad wanted Chris to stay in Live, by saying CCP would be Chris's band for solo projects. How can this be considered gaslighting? Chris literally threatened to leave the band, and then accuses Chad of gaslighting by asking Chris to stay? I mean, the hypocrisy is pretty stark here. Chris even said he always knew Ed would replace him eventually. Where is the deception here? That is not gaslighting. This actually just makes Chris sound pretty stupid.
Another chief complaint is that Chris accuses CCP of removing The Turn from streaming sites. Chris admits that he is perplexed by this decision. However, it's pretty darn obvious that Ed would require removing The Turn as a condition to returning to the band. What should Chris expect after betraying Ed so blatantly?
After winning the Live lottery and having undeservedly been thrust onto the throne for a Live album and a world tour, why is Chris Shinn butthurt even in the slightest? I think we have to notice what Chris has been consistently after his entire career. It seems that Chris has always wanted his songs to become huge and mainstream. Imagine being so close, and instead of Chris, his contemporaries and friends were becoming stars all around him. Blind Melon. Live. Thorne. Chris admits that even his own bandmates would leave him and score big opportunities with other bands and artists.

Chris' career was basically put to sleep after the turn of the millennium, until suddenly he had one more shot at getting big. He hoped Live and The Turn would be a success and was surprised that it flopped. Unrealistic expectations. Once Live hit their stride on tour, Chris was ready to take another stab at stardom with a 2nd record in Live. When he was fired from the band, his dream fizzled out once again, and Chris admits he immediately entered into a depression. Might Chris be the anxious rich kid living in a bubble with delusions of grandeur after all?
The truth is likely that Chris' music was never good enough to make him a huge star. He never wrote a song that was good enough for the world to adore, like his rock star friends managed to do. It's no wonder he has a history of his band mates jumping ship. Everyone wants to be part of a winning team. I say this with full appreciation for his input on The Turn. I also feel happy for Chris' future. He now has Live on his resume, a brand new article in Rolling Stone, and a decent new single with a good music video on youtube, and an album being mastered. If his art is true, I hope he pulls out a grand slam.
I might be alone in my assessment, but if anyone else agrees, we may have a unified theory.

I agree with your synopsis.’

[gerrycan70]

The one time I met Chris Shinn - he was hanging out at the railing after a show on the Summerland tour. He seemed like a decent guy. I honestly felt like he was loving every minute of it. It was a cool experience to have a conversation with him.

The first time I heard the debut of Siren's call, I was very excited to see whether Chris could hold a candle to Ed - something that seemed impossible at the time. I'm a fan of The Turn, and I always felt bad for Chris after hearing his podcast about CCP mistreating him during his tenure, and how he was erased from the band's history.
Even with all this, and letting this article soak in, as these new details come to light, I have to re-assess what Chris Shinn was to the band.
I now think a lot of Chris' beef is completely uncalled for.



First off - Chris admits to entering Live by agreeing to exploit Ed, and exploit Live's most beautiful songs - for the sole purpose of a quick cash grab. He was complicit in attempting to place ***re-recorded*** Live hits into commercials, by mimicking Ed's vocals, and by pretending these were the genuine Throwing Copper recordings from the 90's. Talk about slimy, if not sacrilegious! my god.
Could you even imagine, right after the break up, if Ed tried to re-record the songs in the studio just to put them in commercials for quick cash - just to cut out CCP. This board and the fanbase would have had every pitchfork out ready to murder Ed. It would have been mayhem. But when Chris does it, not a single question mark from the collective fanbase?
Chris says these recordings grew into a new Live project, and it raised questions about whether they were doing the right thing. Looking back, I think Chris had no business being the lead singer of Live. We've heard the arguments before - obviously Chris would be seen as an imposter by a large margin of Live fans. The Turn for sure stands as a work of art, but many agree it's just not Live. The other options, from an artistic standpoint, were so much better. It could have been called anything else and this label would have been accepted by the whole fan base. Instead, CCP chose to create division. Even The Gracious Few could have been assigned for The Turn, and it would have made for an ingenious concept. CCP could have been the "few" as they collabed with a new lead singer on each forthcoming album and tour.
Chris admitted to being closer friends with Ed, then he was with CCP. He said he and Ed would go out and have a great time, on a somewhat regular basis there for a bit - and pay for each others drinks etc.

The moment Ed was at odds with CCP, Chris took the opportunity to turn his back on Ed completely. Chris just took over the frontman role of Live without a single word to his "friend." Could you imagine your friend stealing your lifelong band and trying to steal your image for money? Chris admits knowing that Ed would never have been cool with it. Then Chris rationalizes it by saying Ed and CCP were just emotionally stunted because they were famous growing up. Total utter betrayal and narcissistic behavior. This should not go unchecked.
This article also reinforces the idea that Chris did not care deeply about the art that was Live. Sure, Chris had "fun." But Chris was a casual fan of the radio hits. He was not a true fan. He couldn't remember the lyrics to I alone! Cringeworthy. He didn't want to play track 12. He thought that we, the fans, wouldn't even know the song, lol! Chris admits to having no idea who Jerry Harrison was. Chris admits to being the reason that Live had shallow, unchanging setlists! Chris couldn't even sing into the microphone! Absolutely amateurish. He didn't have the stature of a lead singer for an amazing big band. And he was often times awkward in interviews. These traits are collectively deal breakers to anyone who wants to see Live's art honored.
So then what is this complaining from Chris Shinn really about? Chris said that merely hearing Lightning Crashes or a live song on the radio "was the most painful thing. It's the trauma of having all these awesome memories that are now just scars. They bring up massive amounts of pain."

One of Chris's complaints is that he was "gaslit" because he wanted to start a side band and Chad wanted Chris to stay in Live, by saying CCP would be Chris's band for solo projects. How can this be considered gaslighting? Chris literally threatened to leave the band, and then accuses Chad of gaslighting by asking Chris to stay? I mean, the hypocrisy is pretty stark here. Chris even said he always knew Ed would replace him eventually. Where is the deception here? That is not gaslighting. This actually just makes Chris sound pretty stupid.
Another chief complaint is that Chris accuses CCP of removing The Turn from streaming sites. Chris admits that he is perplexed by this decision. However, it's pretty darn obvious that Ed would require removing The Turn as a condition to returning to the band. What should Chris expect after betraying Ed so blatantly?
After winning the Live lottery and having undeservedly been thrust onto the throne for a Live album and a world tour, why is Chris Shinn butthurt even in the slightest? I think we have to notice what Chris has been consistently after his entire career. It seems that Chris has always wanted his songs to become huge and mainstream. Imagine being so close, and instead of Chris, his contemporaries and friends were becoming stars all around him. Blind Melon. Live. Thorne. Chris admits that even his own bandmates would leave him and score big opportunities with other bands and artists.

Chris' career was basically put to sleep after the turn of the millennium, until suddenly he had one more shot at getting big. He hoped Live and The Turn would be a success and was surprised that it flopped. Unrealistic expectations. Once Live hit their stride on tour, Chris was ready to take another stab at stardom with a 2nd record in Live. When he was fired from the band, his dream fizzled out once again, and Chris admits he immediately entered into a depression. Might Chris be the anxious rich kid living in a bubble with delusions of grandeur after all?
The truth is likely that Chris' music was never good enough to make him a huge star. He never wrote a song that was good enough for the world to adore, like his rock star friends managed to do. It's no wonder he has a history of his band mates jumping ship. Everyone wants to be part of a winning team. I say this with full appreciation for his input on The Turn. I also feel happy for Chris' future. He now has Live on his resume, a brand new article in Rolling Stone, and a decent new single with a good music video on youtube, and an album being mastered. If his art is true, I hope he pulls out a grand slam.
I might be alone in my assessment, but if anyone else agrees, we may have a unified theory.

I think you actually make a lot of valid points

It pissed me off seeing how he implies Gracey being an arsehole for his text message reply. Gracey would be one of the nicest humans around, he doesn't deserve that implication by Shinn. Yet here it is splashed across Rolling Stone for fans to think that Gracey is an uncaring jerk.

[Cardiff_Giant]

why is Chris Shinn butthurt even in the slightest?

Seems pretty obvious to me. He felt like he put his heart and soul into Live when he was a member, but then when Ed came back, CCP acted like he never existed (and CT said even worse in an interview). All he wanted was an acknowledgment that he was a bridge from Live 1.0 to Live 3.0, and he didn't get it. And now that some time has passed and the band has imploded, he is able to see things for how they really were.

CCP reportedly didn't really care about the album or its success.

The fact none of CCP wrote a single word on The Turn leads me to the conclusion it's not even a Live album. It's a Jerry Hairston-Chris Shinn album, with CCP as the backing band. As good of a record as it is, I get why Ed and CCP wouldn't want it on streaming services: It's not really theirs.

This post has been edited by Cardiff_Giant: Nov 3 2022, 7:47 am

[Gertjan]

I might be alone in my assessment, but if anyone else agrees, we may have a unified theory.

I don't share your view on Chris as frontman. I actually found he put on a very decent and energetic show.

On your other points; I do agree. It's weird that he is surprised that the band (read Ed) prefers to ignore The Turn and his presence with them after betraying the supposed friendship he had with Ed. He took an opportunity and then it costs him.

[alexou]

The timing of this article is a hatchet job!

The million dollar question is WHO poked Rolling Stone and said hey I think you should randomly do an interview with Shinn

I wish I could say more because there is more, but I can't.

What I will say, however, is after 4 years being in a band there is ZERO excuses for still having lyrics at your feet on stage!
What an absolute shit show.... if only Netflix could see the value in a Some Kind Of Monster 2 starring.....

Yeah Shinn might have asked for this interview...so what? We were mad for years that Live was not able to promote themselves well. Shinn did it. He had a record out this week. And he was humble enough to recognize some mistakes he did. Great interview, good timing. It shows how much of a R?$/?$%"?%?" CT probably is. My gut feeling over the years was that PD was kind and humble enough as well. This is also probably true.

Great interview, thanks Chris!