What's Going On? Is Live Over? Options

[JonSnow]

I’m pretty sure it was a single in the US.

All Over You, for example, wasn’t a single but gained radio airplay.

I don't remember, but I don't think All Over You was intended to be a single but radio just started playing it.

Lakini's Juice was the first single officially released to radio to promote Secret Samadhi's upcoming release. They just didn't release a physical single to be bought in stores in the US.

This post has been edited by AManHasNoName: Jun 23 2022, 10:16 pm

[mattdm11]

When I said that the band died after Distance to Here, I wasn't just talking about the music but also the soul of it. The first 4 records had a... thing... a feeling... I can't really describe it. It felt honest, soulful, real.

Then... V...

Now I listened to V a LOT. It's an enjoyable record. I have to admit I haven't listened to it in nearly 20 years though. But I remember singing the songs in my car at the time. And of course Overcome is an undeniable classic, written during the Distance to Here era which might explain why it's the only song on the record that has soul. But V didn't have the same feel as the other ones. The whole thing felt wrong and manufactured and produced some of the most cringy, force trying to be cool, lyrics the band ever sang. I remember my jaw dropping when I heard Ed in an interview from the V era kind of mocking the way "some" songwriters wrote their songs but going on to describe the way he said he wrote The Distance to Here...

But of course V was a failure. So BOP came out... and again, to me, it sounded like forcing themselves to sound like they did before. I can't stand that record and there are exactly 0 songs on it that I remotely like. They're Live by numbers song. They're missing that thing that made Live special before. And then SFBM... eww... just no... that record along with Ed's solo records never felt genuine to me.

That's what was missing on every album after The Distance of Here: genuineness.

When The Turn came out, the music felt like it did before V. It could have been under another name because it wasn't the same without Ed but still I loved that record. CCP are brilliant musicians and those songs were solid. The fact that it was surrounded by a lot of positivity, which of course seems to be classic Chris Shinn. But there was a feeling of rebirth of the band and I loved it.

Then the shit hit the fan... and the EP that came out was, again, forced rock. Just like the whole Ed reunion thing, that new music didn't feel genuine.

And of course, the bullshit just keeps coming out with this latest installment... it's just a joke at this point.

This post couldn't be any more accurate. Dead nuts on. You missed saying how TGF album was awesome, but that's not Live, so that's ok.

These guys haven't been relevant for 22 years. They had a good 8,9 year run. Release the SS and TDTH deluxe editions, turn the lights off and call it a day.

BTW I am Chad Taylor. Unfortunately no one wants to bang my wife, including me.

[Bremang]

Chad needs to finish his book quick.

[Hoodstock]

I’m pretty sure it was a single in the US.

All Over You, for example, wasn’t a single but gained radio airplay.

It was a big song and reached #1 in the US. The video came out on MTV a week or two before the album dropped and it was on the radio constantly.

[Starfield83]

So this is my first post after all the drama posted on IG. I Googled searched what was going on and landed here. 20 pages later, but wow.

I just wanted to say that I was a huge fan of live from the get - I remember my mom had the cassette tape but I was the one who really wanted it and I'd steal it from her car so I could play Shit Towne and the rest on repeat. Throwing Copper is an all-time album for me, and although I like plenty of other bands equally or more, TC is probably in my top10 or at least top20 albums of all time. I love Mental Jewelry and got into that more as it was still being played once they hit in 1994. Samadhi and Distance To Here were great, but then they coalesced into this cringey, corporate rock thing that supported such film tentpoles as The Scorpion King lol. I think the honest and emotional lyrical and musical content was gone - it's like Live went from indie alternative darlings to NASCAR schlock in a matter of a few albums.

Anyhow, I was a little too young at the time to see them Live when they first hit and during the Samadhi run, then they started to become unpopular in the general rock world in the 2000s, though I still appreciated them as a band. I was really hoping they'd do a TC Tour, but it ended up just being Ed and Zak Loy. I went all the way to Boston from PA since I had to miss the backyard Bethlehem show, but I really enjoyed hearing all the songs acoustic like that. The power was still all there and I actually got to meet Ed very easily. He signed that very cassette tape that my mom had bought and was geeking out over seeing something so analog. He even took a picture of it - so he was an all around cool guy.

Fast forward to their reunion - I was SO stoked to finally be seeing them and at Musikfest of all places right in Bethlehem where I had missed them before. Lo and hold, Gracey had broken his arm so he was Rick Alan for a night (any Def Leppard fans out there?) and they had some other guy playing a kit too. That was a letdown - as a fellow musician, I really love Chad's style on drums and Jerry Harrison's drum sound he got on TC was just epic. They are some of the finest recorded drums I've ever heard, right next to Stewart Copeland and Chad Smith. Also, seeing Zak Loy back on guitar was annoying. I HATE when bands add extraneous members that are pretty useless, yet there may have been more of a reason.

I know the Chad Stomp is a real thing, but I read an article that he was stomping so hard in the 90s for whatever reason - to feel the song, or to stand out, or to get attention, I don't know - but he had pinched a nerve or had a severe shoulder issue which made it really hard for him to play. I think it's well documented that he got surgery and it made his left hand weaker since all those ligaments end up connecting around the shoulder from the elbow. It makes sense, but that being said, I have a LIVE album from around 1994-95 that was some import CD from Rome I think that I got from Europe and his guitar solos are absolutely atrocious. They didn't sound like the album at all - and I do give Chad T a lot of credit for having such cool style of leads on the albums and solos on stuff like Shit Towne or Dolphin's Cry. It was never shred heavy and always more blues and feel oriented. My guess is Loy was brought in as a favor to Ed who holds a big sway in the band but also to kind of hide Chad's inefficiency. I went and rewatched the Paradiso DVD clips and he sounded decent there.

Seeing them recently (with Bush) on their reunion tour a second time it was hard to even hear Chad's distinct parts because Loy was playing all over them. I couldn't tell which was playing what at times, which got really annoying. They also inexplicably brought out the most annoying 2nd percussionist of all time with all sorts of hand drums and cymbal shit. I mean, realistically the only songs that would ever call for that are off Mental Jewelry and they BARELY played those songs. It was as if Ed or the management didn't trust the actual founding members to do their jobs. I think the best example of a live tour was The Police - they had NO backup singers, no dumb keyboards, no 2nd guitar player, no percussionist. It was Andy, Stewart and Sting and their sound was sublime - as rock intended it. Ditto to U2 as well, they never strayed from the original 4 guys.

I was cracking up because someone called them Loyve earlier, and I think that's so appropriate. I didn't really see Live those nights, it was edging more into a cover version of themselves. So honestly, unless LIVE, the original 4 guys wants to ever tour again, I probably won't be seeing them.I want to hear Gracey hit all those awesome beats BY HIMSELF, I want Chad's originals leads and Pat and Ed can do their thing. I have a lot of respect for Pat's basslines too! It seems like they shut all his fancy stuff down as they got more popular, but his playing is awesome so good for him being a gun for hire now. Anyhow, that's my two cents on this band as a whole, without any of the personal drama. I still wonder if Chad can play guitar well, or if his grip was always weaker on his left hand.

[gerrycan70]

So this is my first post after all the drama posted on IG. I Googled searched what was going on and landed here. 20 pages later, but wow.

I just wanted to say that I was a huge fan of live from the get - I remember my mom had the cassette tape but I was the one who really wanted it and I'd steal it from her car so I could play Shit Towne and the rest on repeat. Throwing Copper is an all-time album for me, and although I like plenty of other bands equally or more, TC is probably in my top10 or at least top20 albums of all time. I love Mental Jewelry and got into that more as it was still being played once they hit in 1994. Samadhi and Distance To Here were great, but then they coalesced into this cringey, corporate rock thing that supported such film tentpoles as The Scorpion King lol. I think the honest and emotional lyrical and musical content was gone - it's like Live went from indie alternative darlings to NASCAR schlock in a matter of a few albums.

Anyhow, I was a little too young at the time to see them Live when they first hit and during the Samadhi run, then they started to become unpopular in the general rock world in the 2000s, though I still appreciated them as a band. I was really hoping they'd do a TC Tour, but it ended up just being Ed and Zak Loy. I went all the way to Boston from PA since I had to miss the backyard Bethlehem show, but I really enjoyed hearing all the songs acoustic like that. The power was still all there and I actually got to meet Ed very easily. He signed that very cassette tape that my mom had bought and was geeking out over seeing something so analog. He even took a picture of it - so he was an all around cool guy.

Fast forward to their reunion - I was SO stoked to finally be seeing them and at Musikfest of all places right in Bethlehem where I had missed them before. Lo and hold, Gracey had broken his arm so he was Rick Alan for a night (any Def Leppard fans out there?) and they had some other guy playing a kit too. That was a letdown - as a fellow musician, I really love Chad's style on drums and Jerry Harrison's drum sound he got on TC was just epic. They are some of the finest recorded drums I've ever heard, right next to Stewart Copeland and Chad Smith. Also, seeing Zak Loy back on guitar was annoying. I HATE when bands add extraneous members that are pretty useless, yet there may have been more of a reason.

I know the Chad Stomp is a real thing, but I read an article that he was stomping so hard in the 90s for whatever reason - to feel the song, or to stand out, or to get attention, I don't know - but he had pinched a nerve or had a severe shoulder issue which made it really hard for him to play. I think it's well documented that he got surgery and it made his left hand weaker since all those ligaments end up connecting around the shoulder from the elbow. It makes sense, but that being said, I have a LIVE album from around 1994-95 that was some import CD from Rome I think that I got from Europe and his guitar solos are absolutely atrocious. They didn't sound like the album at all - and I do give Chad T a lot of credit for having such cool style of leads on the albums and solos on stuff like Shit Towne or Dolphin's Cry. It was never shred heavy and always more blues and feel oriented. My guess is Loy was brought in as a favor to Ed who holds a big sway in the band but also to kind of hide Chad's inefficiency. I went and rewatched the Paradiso DVD clips and he sounded decent there.

Seeing them recently (with Bush) on their reunion tour a second time it was hard to even hear Chad's distinct parts because Loy was playing all over them. I couldn't tell which was playing what at times, which got really annoying. They also inexplicably brought out the most annoying 2nd percussionist of all time with all sorts of hand drums and cymbal shit. I mean, realistically the only songs that would ever call for that are off Mental Jewelry and they BARELY played those songs. It was as if Ed or the management didn't trust the actual founding members to do their jobs. I think the best example of a live tour was The Police - they had NO backup singers, no dumb keyboards, no 2nd guitar player, no percussionist. It was Andy, Stewart and Sting and their sound was sublime - as rock intended it. Ditto to U2 as well, they never strayed from the original 4 guys.

I was cracking up because someone called them Loyve earlier, and I think that's so appropriate. I didn't really see Live those nights, it was edging more into a cover version of themselves. So honestly, unless LIVE, the original 4 guys wants to ever tour again, I probably won't be seeing them.I want to hear Gracey hit all those awesome beats BY HIMSELF, I want Chad's originals leads and Pat and Ed can do their thing. I have a lot of respect for Pat's basslines too! It seems like they shut all his fancy stuff down as they got more popular, but his playing is awesome so good for him being a gun for hire now. Anyhow, that's my two cents on this band as a whole, without any of the personal drama. I still wonder if Chad can play guitar well, or if his grip was always weaker on his left hand.

Welcome to the FOL board, the rollercoaster ride of ups and downs, fun, and drama

Really respect your thoughts on the shows you attended. Not speaking for the band, but if they had their time over again I doubt there would've been a second drummer retained.

I've seen Zak play in the flesh about 5 times, 3 with Live, 2 with Ed. I think he's a brilliant young guitarist. Whether he outshone Taylor could've simply been Taylor's mix being too low. Also the speaker set ups can sometimes give more bias depending on where you're positioned in the crowd.

I can't see the original 4 being retained, given Ed's post. I'd encourage you to give Zak another chance to prove his worth to you.

Kudos

[Pingfah]

Despite being a huge fan from the start, the only time I saw Live live was on the SS tour at a small venue in the UK. It was one of the most intense concerts I have ever seen.

I will certainly give new music a try, but I will never go and see them again and just preserve that as a perfect memory of the band.

[717raised]

This post couldn't be any more accurate. Dead nuts on. You missed saying how TGF album was awesome, but that's not Live, so that's ok.

These guys haven't been relevant for 22 years. They had a good 8,9 year run. Release the SS and TDTH deluxe editions, turn the lights off and call it a day.

I couldn't agree more to this post as well. Dead on my friend!

[LiveForNow]

I couldn't agree more to this post as well. Dead on my friend!

Do we know why they kept the second drummer after Gracey healed?

[SoL]

Do we know why they kept the second drummer after Gracey healed?

CT wanted to sleep with his wife as well

[MrsRandy]

My old name on this board was Dancing Queen but I cannot for the life of me find a password so I made this profile a while ago, but I've been here (on and off) for a long time. I can't remember my name on the illout board, but I used to trade sound board recordings with a few of you (thanks for those :-) )

A friend of mine had a Death of a Dictionary tape in high school and I tried (unsuccessfully) to steal it. (wasn't that close of a friend, moment of weakness, now I'm glad I failed because I would fell terrible). Then another friend had a mental jewelry tape that he let me copy. I played it so hard it died. My tape player ate it. When I could order 12 cds for a penny from BMG, I absolutely got myself a copy of Throwing Copper and Mental Jewelry. I first saw them play at the Chameleon, which I really am thankful for. I've seen them 3 dozen times, including the last show as a foursome (with Rocco DeLuca opening, which was amazing!) and the Chris Shinn debut show in York. I saw them tour with Shinn for the TC anniversary, as well as Ed's TC acoustic tour. I think I saw Ed 5 or 6 times solo. I've met them all (including Chris Shinn and Kevin Martin). They've all always been great to me personally, but that speaks nothing of how they have or do treat each other, to which I cannot speak.

As has been well said, the music after TDTH just *felt* different. And I LIKE V (cheeseball lyrics and all). But it's not the same. I don't know what broke, but something broke after TDTH. and after all this time and the lawsuits and dramatics, I just couldn't bring myself to see the reunion tour with Bush. I like Bush. I wanted to. Just didn't.

Today I have listened to everything Ed released solo (minus the live recorded stuff, just the studio stuff) and I'm finishing TGF's album right now (it's been a slow day at work). First of all, if you want to have a seizure, listen to Ed solo all day and then put on TGF!

I'm trying to figure out what the feeling is that has been gone for years. I don't know what it is. It's a feeling or vibe or genuineness or something (as has been said). I'll listen to the Turn tonight, because it's a great album. I skipped over the 717 EP, which is ok with me. I tried so hard to like that.

I hate that my own personal midlife crisis coincides with my favorite band's (now decade long) mid-life crisis.

If they (and I don't even care which grouping of musicians "they" are, at this point) can make something that has that feel, that vibe, that grit maybe is a word I would use, that the first four albums had, I'm in. I like Zak Loy. I didn't love Railo on the keyboards, but it added something special to the TDTH tour. I enjoy when Adam K joined them. But I don't need several guitars all playing the same parts.

What I need is some good old fashioned Live rock :-) We'll see if we get it. I'll be here. Waiting.

[Cardiff_Giant]

But it's not the same. I don't know what broke, but something broke after TDTH.

I'm trying to figure out what the feeling is that has been gone for years. I don't know what it is. It's a feeling or vibe or genuineness or something (as has been said).

For me, it was the lyrics. They were relatable, for a lot of us, on the first two records. We've all lived in a Shit Towne. We've all felt for the Waitress. We've all questioned organized religion and racism. We've all known someone we felt that we Alone loved. We've all been Tired of ourselves.

SS was an obvious departure you could have seen coming. TDTH started to stretch the bounds (20-some years later I still don't know what "The desert had been done before, but I didn't even care,
I got sand in both my shoes and scorpions in my hair" is all about.)

Then I don't know what happened ("I was barely breathing, she was on the ceiling
Falling into reverb, running with the heathen.") Some later songs are understandable, but to me many are esoteric and/or attempts at a universal message that ends up being missed. They no longer were songs that eventually found their way to each of us individually.

That's my take.

[LiveForNow]

Ed now follows CG and PD on IG again.

[Starfield83]

Welcome to the FOL board, the rollercoaster ride of ups and downs, fun, and drama

Really respect your thoughts on the shows you attended. Not speaking for the band, but if they had their time over again I doubt there would've been a second drummer retained.

I've seen Zak play in the flesh about 5 times, 3 with Live, 2 with Ed. I think he's a brilliant young guitarist. Whether he outshone Taylor could've simply been Taylor's mix being too low. Also the speaker set ups can sometimes give more bias depending on where you're positioned in the crowd.

I can't see the original 4 being retained, given Ed's post. I'd encourage you to give Zak another chance to prove his worth to you.

Kudos

He was a nice addition to the acoustic shows to provide the usual Taylor atmosphere and leads to the great batch of songs, but I'd much prefer the original members. It's a shame that their own chemistry is what makes them great and also what makes them hate.

It doesn't go well when others replace creative members of a band - I would use Pearl Jam as a prime example. I am a guitarist and lead singer by trade, but I love drummers and drums and although I have tons of respect to Matt Cameron as an excellent drummer for Soundgarden and their cool rhythmic meters, he is absolutely AWFUL in Pearl Jam. It's a travesty that egomaniac Eddie Vedder denied Dave Abbrusseze the opportunity to play, if not just to stand at the RnR HOF ceremony. They haven't had a great drummer since Dave A. Since Matt Cameron entered the fold, Pearl Jam lost it's swing and groove overnight - which is what totally MADE the band.

Now Zak Loy would just be playing leads and could much more easily fade to the background on LIVE stuff, so I get that he's forgivable and seemed like very much the team player. I just hated that Ed brought him into that whole reunion tour, like overstuffing the stage was going to make it easier on him so he wouldn't have to deal with the other members. The whole stage sound was overstuffed as well - part of what makes Live's original music so great is the distinctness of the parts and the space allowed to each player. Ed used to play guitar ALL the time and now he's adopted the Andre Agassi frontman with a mic image. He's not a bad rhythm player at all, I wish he'd play more in general and definitely more electric. It's like Red Hot Chili Peppers, the interplay between the band members and the space is what make them so unique and fun to listen to. John Frusciante, Flea and Chad Smith create the perfect brew of instrumentation. Less is always more in music - I've never seen it work the other way unless it's Pet Sounds, which is more the studio masterpiece anyhow.

[Bremang]

I've seen Zak play in the flesh about 5 times, 3 with Live, 2 with Ed. I think he's a brilliant young guitarist. Whether he outshone Taylor could've simply been Taylor's mix being too low. Also the speaker set ups can sometimes give more bias depending on where you're positioned in the crowd.

I can't see the original 4 being retained, given Ed's post. I'd encourage you to give Zak another chance to prove his worth to you.

Kudos

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and that is ok.

I just want to offer the newbie the counterpoint - from the guy who coined Loyve and is spearheading the anti-loy movement lol

I think he's just an adult contemporary studio musician. And honestly, he probably caters well to Live's aging fanbase. No doubt alot of fans are in their 40's and 50's and have probably slowed down quite a bit.

Chad would call his guitar artistry a form of meditation, and you can hear it in the clips he posted on FB, or during any of his SS solos in concert. I think Loy's style is just so uninspired, mediocre, and not rocking, that I think the band cannot be called Live with Loy playing in it, IMO.

Hearing Loy try to copy the lakini's juice riff is tear inducing. Listening to that VH1 style extended solo during the distance is a vast evolution away from everything that was cool about Live, IMO. Hopefully Daughty Loy and Railo form a band so we can shed the watered down copycat adult contemporary fat from the Live rock fanbase lmao



Plus Loy recently tried to say that Live are doing well - so he can't be trusted.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jun 24 2022, 7:46 pm