Questions about The Turn Options

[Bob]

I do love The Turn. The music, the artwork, what it stood for - the whole thing.

Would have been fine had they released it as a second TGF album, tbf. But even then it would have been such a Live album in all but name. Whereas the TGF album we have is, while great, clearly not a Live album.

I love The Turn and still listen to it often. In contrast, I purged Local 717 from my Live catalog. It doesn't exist to me. The Turn got me back into Live because SFBM was... not very good.

I'm one of the few that liked Shinn as vocalist. He had the vocal chops to keep up with CCP's music and had good stories to tell. I never saw them live with Shinn, which really makes me sad. It really didn't bother me much that he messed up the lyrics to the older songs like it bugs other Live fans. IMO he was a good frontman, a decent guitarist, and a solid songwriter. Good enough for me. I'd say he earned a B+ rating.

I wonder if we'd still have this discussion if Shinn was still the lead singer. I also wonder what would have happened if TGF just rotated through singers for new albums every 2-3 years until Live figured their business out. So many what if's.

I can only imagine how it would rub people if Live decided to play a few songs from The Turn. Let's see how Ed would sing Siren's Call, Rodgerton, or TWAIT. I'd rather him have do that than try to hit the super high notes that he just can't hit any more, or sing any song from 717 ever again.

[alexou]

I love The Turn and still listen to it often. In contrast, I purged Local 717 from my Live catalog. It doesn't exist to me. The Turn got me back into Live because SFBM was... not very good.

I'm one of the few that liked Shinn as vocalist. He had the vocal chops to keep up with CCP's music and had good stories to tell. I never saw them live with Shinn, which really makes me sad. It really didn't bother me much that he messed up the lyrics to the older songs like it bugs other Live fans. IMO he was a good frontman, a decent guitarist, and a solid songwriter. Good enough for me. I'd say he earned a B+ rating.

I wonder if we'd still have this discussion if Shinn was still the lead singer. I also wonder what would have happened if TGF just rotated through singers for new albums every 2-3 years until Live figured their business out. So many what if's.

I can only imagine how it would rub people if Live decided to play a few songs from The Turn. Let's see how Ed would sing Siren's Call, Rodgerton, or TWAIT. I'd rather him have do that than try to hit the super high notes that he just can't hit any more, or sing any song from 717 ever again.

Agree with most of it. Messing with words is maybe not a BIG deal, but it was way too frequent for him. With all the time he had to prepare, all the time they could rehearse, I don't think it's appropriate for professional musicians to do that.

Shinn looks like a very nice guy, relaxed outside the scene, but was probably very stressed for what was happening onstage. People close to the band told me that he was great singing TBD in the rehearsals of the ACTC show, but he missed it completely during the show. That moment was akward. He was mad at himself when he was missing, but was never able to get better unfortunately.

I had the chance to see him live 3 times, he could deliver. He has that raw voice that fits well with the older catalog, and on the web there are some very good renditions of songs like Operation spirits, Pain Lies, LJ, WD. Sirens Call. The 6310 Rodgerton version from the show at Think Loud is fantastic. The best Live song in 20 years. Good riff, heartfelt lyrics. I got lucky to see Freaks a last time on stage. In one of these there was 12 000 people in and he was able to win all of them with good stage presence. But some other times he was off too. Maybe he was inconsistent in his performances, but it was debated too many times already.

But his presence, as the one of Jerry Harrison, pushed CCP well enough. They spent alot of time in the studio all together and worked their way to produce their more rocking album since SS. This was an accomplishment by itself, even if didn't work commercially. The rare reviews were very good about this record. To erase that 2012-2015 span was really heaartbreaking for me as we spent quite some money to drive to to these shows (more than 2000km in a week-end for ACTC), and it was all worth it.

[Bremang]

Shinn's voice could shred in concert but if you keep messing up the lyrics to I Alone then you're not allowed to front the greatest band ever. Everyone in the crowd knows the lyrics.

Live is special, but only Ed completed that sound truly from MJ to BOP. Shinn can't tap into another dimension and go nuts in the middle of operation spirit and start sayin "Where is your anchor boy??!!" and have it feel remotely genuine or believable.

In interviews and on stage Chris' charisma levels were a far cry from Ed. He was a down to earth regular dude. Very nice guy in person. Just not what I'm looking for in a solid frontman, except the voice. Of course Ed now lacks the voice, so it's debatable whether Live can create new music. Loyve certainly is not Live.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Aug 22 2020, 11:49 pm

[Badman]

Shinn can't tap into another dimension and go nuts in the middle of operation spirit and start sayin "Where is your anchor boy??!!" and have it feel remotely genuine or believable.

In interviews and on stage Chris' charisma levels were a far cry from Ed. He was a down to earth regular dude. Very nice guy in person.

Ed can't even do that anymore. Last time he tried we got that "Spee-Rat" performance on the dvd.

but yes you are 100% right that Shinn couldn't do that and he was too humble and nice - a little ego actually helps a frontman and Shinn is seemingly not destined for the spotlight.

[Hoodstock]

Shinn also couldn't figure out how to sing all of the words into the microphone.

[World Dreamer]

The Turn is the last great album Live will put out.

[JonSnow]

The Turn is the last great album Live will put out.

Unfortunately, this is looking like truth. The Turn wasn't perfect and at times seemed like an attempt to hem too closely to Throwing Copper on some songs. But it was the closest thing we've gotten to those first 4 albums since.

I mean, as long as they're still a band and still breathing it's physically possible for them to get back to that original fire and creative spirit but I don't think they want it. They're all approaching that half-century mark. Nothing lasts forever. Chad T might just want to smoke cigars and twiddle with his guitars and go full steam ahead into trying to become the best engineer he can be. Ed might want to kick back into his solo thing. Pat might just want to go camp and fish. And Chad G might just want to hang with his fam and... do whatever else it is he wants to do. If that's what they want in their hearts then all I can say is viya con dios and thanks for all the fish.

Honestly, that'd be a far better decision than pretending they still have the same drive and hunger they did when they were in their 20s and putting out music that just doesn't match that image. If they still want to put out new music then great but they need to strip away all the bombast and get back to the John Denver of things. Just sit around in the kitchen with an acoustic guitar and just fucking jam. Fuck the distortion and production. The world doesn't need that shit right now any fucking way.

[Tips]

A little late here but I have to agree with what the general sentiment seems to be. To me, The Turn was the best Live record since Secret Samadhi and The Distance to Here (I can't stand either BOP and SFBM, I find that anything Ed's done solo is a snorefest and I don't like Local 717 at all). It's a shame they decided to pretend it never happened.

[alexou]

A little late here but I have to agree with what the general sentiment seems to be. To me, The Turn was the best Live record since Secret Samadhi and The Distance to Here (I can't stand either BOP and SFBM, I find that anything Ed's done solo is a snorefest and I don't like Local 717 at all). It's a shame they decided to pretend it never happened.

I know he wasn't involved with SS, but we have to think there's a thing with what Jerry Harrison did with them. Really would have liked to see his impact in the studio when they recorded the Turn. Shinn already talked about how he pushed him hard, and that it helped him. He maybe got the boys out of their laziness in studio.

[mattyeagles]

I know he wasn't involved with SS, but we have to think there's a thing with what Jerry Harrison did with them. Really would have liked to see his impact in the studio when they recorded the Turn. Shinn already talked about how he pushed him hard, and that it helped him. He maybe got the boys out of their laziness in studio.

Jerry Harrison should be involved in every live project going forward (if there ever is another Live project, which is doubtful).

[Pingfah]

Chad Taylor said at the time they put lots of extra effort into mastering this for vinyl.

Shame that never came out.

[mattdm11]

I'm glad so many others feel the same way. Live was castrated almost 20 years ago and the old Live isn't coming back. TGF was, to me, about a 8 out of 10, the Turn was a 6 out of 10. Pretty good considering SFBM was about a 3 and Local 717 or whatever it's called was a 1, and Ed's solo was a big fat goose egg.

I remember driving down to Columbus to see the TGF (they weren't coming to Cleveland) and I did it because I knew they would be just like Army of Anyone....one and done. The venue was pretty much empty. Rock music had moved on, even though the album was good.

The Turn never had a chance - the first album in 7 years or so by a band who hadn't been relevant in 15 years with a new lead singer? You knew that wouldn't work.

So now it's the money grab portion of their careers.....greatest hits, same setlist, show after show. Hey, Ed needs to remodel his kitchen? Let's do a few tour dates.

They were once a top 3 band for me. They turned out to be a band who had a run of 4 great albums, a so-so album or two, and trash since. If their last EP was a preview of things to come, they should stick to the past.

I wish they'd pull a PJ and start releasing old live shows online. I'd pay 10-15 bucks for a bunch of shows. That would be pretty exciting. There's not much to look forward to otherwise from these guys. I don't think there's much in the vaults. Would also love to hear demos, but that won't be released.

[Pingfah]

I really enjoyed that Army of Anyone album.

[JonSnow]

I really enjoyed that Army of Anyone album.

Big fat ditto. I wish the DeLeos and the drummer would just ditch this new guy they have imitating Weiland for STP and go make more music with Richard Patrick.

"Make me a better place, it's filled with a little love, yeah...."

This post has been edited by AManHasNoName: Nov 4 2020, 3:11 am